Irish Republicanism

[Section_31]

Why was Ireland separated in the first place? What was that all about? How does the North get treated by the British government,are people treated with as much disdain as those of us on the mainland?

 

The North seems to be alright on that score from what I've seen. They have free water and a lot of the jobs are still public sector which seem to have been spared the cuts, it's changing though.  

[Kloppite]

Why was Ireland separated in the first place? What was that all about? How does the North get treated by the British government,are people treated with as much disdain as those of us on the mainland?

I think it was ironically to stop trouble. I think the reasoning was down to the fact that Ulster had a predominantly Protestant population and that population regarded itself as British so it was on the face of it only right that they remain part of the U.K. Instead of being ruled by an Irish government.

[Razoray]

There were many uprisings/rebellions in Ireland during the centuries of British rule, but most occurred during periods of exceptionally cruel hardship endured by the Irish.

9 years war in the north a result of the plague of 1575 and declaration of QE1 as a heretic by pope Pius v.

1641 rebellion after Elizabeth 1st's plantation of ulster

Famine in 1740 and 20 years after the battle of Carrickfergus.

1798 due to hatred of penal laws of 18th century

1803 rebellion after 1801 act of union

1840s famine led to 1867 fenian rising

1916-21 rising/war of independance after dublin and the rest of the country had become a slum culminating in 1913 lockout. The generation after the famine had started a gaelic renaissance in the late 19th century which fostered a more organised movement and ultimate (not complete) success.

1969-90s? Northern Ireland troubles due to lack of civil rights for Catholics in the north.

 

It is not all as simple as that but to generate sufficient following to start a rebellion and people to be willing to sacrifice their lives, significant numbers need to be disenfranchised.

 

I have no doubt that if social injustice returned to the 6 counties then we would be back to the bad old days of the "Troubles" or probably worse but until then those in the north are too satisfied with their lot.

Those in the south know (besides the plastic republicans who sing songs at the weekend but would know primary level Irish history) that it would hit them in the pocket to reannex FATDAD.

[A Red]

I think it was ironically to stop trouble. I think the reasoning was down to the fact that Ulster had a predominantly Protestant population and that population regarded itself as British so it was on the face of it only right that they remain part of the U.K. Instead of being ruled by an Irish government.

If you take the other 3 Ulster counties Monaghan, Donegal and Cavan into the equation then there would have been a Roman Catholic majority. The reason for taking them out of it were the other 6 were where it was mostly Protestant. You then get what could be called a gerrymandered state.

 

The thing is, there is no reason for a British government to want to keep those 6 counties, it costs the rest of the UK money, there are no natural resourses and its not usually particularly helpful in the house of commons. Its all about standing by/protecting the million or so people that want to remain in the UK and the fear of what might happen if they were abandoned 

[Razoray]

Why was Ireland separated in the first place? What was that all about? How does the North get treated by the British government,are people treated with as much disdain as those of us on the mainland?

Simply put, in the early 17th century irish landowners had their land confiscated by the crown and given to english and scottish settlers in a not too dissimilar way to the Native Americans across the pond.

Prior to that Ulster was seen as the most Gaelic section of Ireland but the least densly populated.

All of the catholic churches in the region were taken and handed over to the protestant church of Ireland. Billed as an anglicanisation of Ireland, it was used as a reward to friends of the crown

[Rico1304]

In the first place, yeah. But we don't have time travel so we can't stop that happening. After all this time it would be bit unfair to just say its this way or its that way.Like I said the fairest thing would be to ask the Northern Irish what they want to be, Irish or English. Have a referendum. Its probably more complex than that, but I'm a simple kindly soul.

Wouldn't you also have to ask the Irish if they want the Northern Irish?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I like all that wall art and the murals, so keep the status quo going if you ask me.

 

I joke. I fully understand and sympathise with the IRA's position. But, their methods were/are (the New IRA's recent assassination campaign) reprehensible.

[Elysian Red]

What people are forgetting is that nationalists accepted British rule in the Good Friday agreement. No matter about false majority etc, the constitutional claim by the Republic for the 6 counties was dropped. I can't see opinions changing enough in my lifetime at least for there to be enough people in favour to call a referendum. And I'm from the nationalist community, born near the border and now living in Belfast.

 

A lot of wrongs were done in the past but this place is immeasurably better. Not too many people give a fuck about a United Ireland.

[Paco]

What people are forgetting is that nationalists accepted British rule in the Good Friday agreement. No matter about false majority etc, the constitutional claim by the Republic for the 6 counties was dropped. I can't see opinions changing enough in my lifetime at least for there to be enough people in favour to call a referendum. And I'm from the nationalist community, born near the border and now living in Belfast.

 

A lot of wrongs were done in the past but this place is immeasurably better. Not too many people give a fuck about a United Ireland.

we accepted self-determination.

[Red Dawn]

The biggest travesty of the division of Ireland and one which you englanders should hang your head in shame about is the use of that god awful "Irelands call" as the unified anthem of the irish rugby team. Worse than any famine or genocide yis bastards!!!!!!

[Bjornebye]

Stig is still asleep on the couch. There is a nearly empty bottle of Jamesons in front of him and the Dubliners are still on repeat.

Where have you hidden the camera?

[Alan Sex]

The sign said "tree fellers wanted".

[cloggypop]

Bumped to bring the two threads together.

[Strontium]

Bumped to bring the two threads together.

So they can be reunified, whether or not the participants want it.

[Kloppite]

Do we need another Irish republicanism thread just to make it a fair and balanced debate?

[Em City]

No one in the Republic cares about having the North back except armchair Republicans with tricolour tattoos and Celtic jerseys.. All the North is to most people down south is a handy place to buy fireworks and do some shopping on the cheap.

[A Red]

The perfect gift for the armchair republican in your life

 

[Alan Sex]

De Norn Iron Trone?

[Sugar Ape]

Nuke the North and the South. This is why Dimreaper is avoiding the thread, he's embarrassed about this conversation we had last time.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/index.php?/topic/95813-fao-out-of-towners-wools-mongs-and-the-irish/page-6&do=findComment&comment=4033906

 

 

 

I've just been informed by DimReaper that in Northern Ireland an Ice Cream is called a ' poke '. And also that the word weaker is interchangeable with brilliant over there. When you consider they also call a ' chippy ' a  'chipper ' and a ' fry up ' a ' fry ', then I think it's clear to see we've got a problem.

 

Evidence:

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poke&page=2

 

Quote

In northern ireland poke is another word for ice cream on a cone. so if offered a poke u are not being offered sex! 
if you hear the term "pokie" this refers to the seller of the ice cream. usually in a van or other mobile stall.

"fancy a poke" "aye go on!" 

"who wants a poke"

 

 

 

[Bjornebye]

No one in the Republic cares about having the North back except armchair Republicans with tricolour tattoos and Celtic jerseys.. All the North is to most people down south is a handy place to buy fireworks and do some shopping on the cheap.

 

 

I think it's more important to know what Catholics in the North feel about it all. 

[Trumo]

Is one thread for Catholics and the other for Protestants?

[The Golden Eel]

 

Ive probably worded that in a bad way and accept that lads like Dim and ROTOQ might be pissed off

 

Not sure why you think that, but I can confirm I'm not.  The offensive wumming from Sugar Ape, however, I've reported that as xenophobia.

 

 

Now I'm off for a poke and a bag of dulse.

[Lee909]

I like dulse

[The Golden Eel]

I like dulse

 

Haven't had it in years - it reminds me of going to somewhere like Portrush or Newcastle, when you came out of the shop with a bag of dulse and a fake cigarette, fake blood and a fake dog turd.

[General Dryness]

Wouldn't you also have to ask the Irish if they want the Northern Irish?

Would you turn your nose up at being able to say Jim McDonald from Corrie was one of your own?

 

No, I wouldn't either. Catch yourself on, Rico.