Joe Allen thread

[Judge]

I think both Allen and Henderson are great talents, and I would be happy to see both in our squad.

 

People seem to forget Hendersons age. His problem so far seem to be the mental part, coming to a big club with famous players seemed to make him reserved and too cautious; too respectful and afraid of making mistakes. Once he throws the shackles and take more responsibility and more risks going forward I think we will see a terriffic player, as there is no doubt that he has all the attributes that is needed; pace, skills, stamina etc.

[billypilgrimnz]

Am I though?

 

I'm just pointing out that the difference in quality between henderson and Allen is minimal and its certainly not clear cut who is the better player of the two.

 

You could say Allen had a better season last year but as pointed out it was his first season in the PL and when you are going to look at a players quality you look a bit further than that.

 

And please explain to me what Lucas has got to do with this?

 

I could play along though using the same narrow perspective as used earlier in this thread by others and say Lucas was fuckin dogshite, he did not even touch the ball between late November and May so he was infact totally useless.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is your constant cherry-picking of stats and "observations" to fit an already cemented position, combined with a stunning inability to reconcile your behaviour in some threads with similar behaviour you deplore from others.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is Allen is being mooted as a possible target, and you are trying to persuade others that maybe he is not the right choice (nothing wrong with that at all). But you decide to big up Henderson using some tenuous stats, because tenuous stats are your thing, when it would have been a stronger argument to big up Lucas, who must I remind you, is also a player of ours, whose stats are stronger and who plays in midfield as well.

 

But we know you won't do that because you hate Lucas and you'd be loathe to ever paint anything he does in a postive light, even if it would directly help the argument you are trying to make.

 

What Lucas has to do with it is you won't bring him up, claiming he's not part of the discussion, but in (let's say) a thread discussing the performance of Roy Hodgson as manager of England, it is perfectly reasonable to bring up and slag off Rafa Benitez as a way to....well, you'll have to help me out with that one.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he will have a blinder of a game against Chelsea, and you won't even have the humility to admit it. Instead, you'll say he's okay but not even in the top 5 or 6 on the day.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he is a symbol of how hypocritical and closeminded you are in certain aspects of our club, someone who will take the high road when he thinks it will benefit him, but then turn around and call our best centreback last season "a cone-headed cunt" without blinking an eye.

 

In short, you are everything that's wrong with modern day sportsfans - you think your opinion is correct because you stick to it, as if the only thing you need to prove something is true is to repeat it over and over again. And maintaining the correctness of this opinion is more important than the club.

 

That's what Lucas has to do with this.

[Redder Lurtz]

Jesus christ. This thread makes me want to stick knives into my testicles.

 

Edit: Code makes me want to stick knives into my testicles.

[Jairzinho]

Have to spread rep, sorry, Billy.

[Kennys_spell]

What Lucas has to do with this is your constant cherry-picking of stats and "observations" to fit an already cemented position, combined with a stunning inability to reconcile your behaviour in some threads with similar behaviour you deplore from others.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is Allen is being mooted as a possible target, and you are trying to persuade others that maybe he is not the right choice (nothing wrong with that at all). But you decide to big up Henderson using some tenuous stats, because tenuous stats are your thing, when it would have been a stronger argument to big up Lucas, who must I remind you, is also a player of ours, whose stats are stronger and who plays in midfield as well.

 

But we know you won't do that because you hate Lucas and you'd be loathe to ever paint anything he does in a postive light, even if it would directly help the argument you are trying to make.

 

What Lucas has to do with it is you won't bring him up, claiming he's not part of the discussion, but in (let's say) a thread discussing the performance of Roy Hodgson as manager of England, it is perfectly reasonable to bring up and slag off Rafa Benitez as a way to....well, you'll have to help me out with that one.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he will have a blinder of a game against Chelsea, and you won't even have the humility to admit it. Instead, you'll say he's okay but not even in the top 5 or 6 on the day.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he is a symbol of how hypocritical and closeminded you are in certain aspects of our club, someone who will take the high road when he thinks it will benefit him, but then turn around and call our best centreback last season "a cone-headed cunt" without blinking an eye.

 

In short, you are everything that's wrong with modern day sportsfans - you think your opinion is correct because you stick to it, as if the only thing you need to prove something is true is to repeat it over and over again. And maintaining the correctness of this opinion is more important than the club.

 

That's what Lucas has to do with this.

 

The only thing missing from that was a card trick at the end - or perhaps making a rabbit appear out of a top-hat with the accompanying TA-DAAAAAA!!

 

THAT would have been the only thing you could have added to that post as it contained everything else needed. 100% correct.

[Kennys_spell]

Have to spread rep, sorry, Billy.

 

Done it for many others in the same position I'm sure!

[Hand Shandy]

 

What Lucas has to do with this is your constant cherry-picking of stats and "observations" to fit an already cemented position, combined with a stunning inability to reconcile your behaviour in some threads with similar behaviour you deplore from others.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is Allen is being mooted as a possible target, and you are trying to persuade others that maybe he is not the right choice (nothing wrong with that at all). But you decide to big up Henderson using some tenuous stats, because tenuous stats are your thing, when it would have been a stronger argument to big up Lucas, who must I remind you, is also a player of ours, whose stats are stronger and who plays in midfield as well.

 

But we know you won't do that because you hate Lucas and you'd be loathe to ever paint anything he does in a postive light, even if it would directly help the argument you are trying to make.

 

What Lucas has to do with it is you won't bring him up, claiming he's not part of the discussion, but in (let's say) a thread discussing the performance of Roy Hodgson as manager of England, it is perfectly reasonable to bring up and slag off Rafa Benitez as a way to....well, you'll have to help me out with that one.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he will have a blinder of a game against Chelsea, and you won't even have the humility to admit it. Instead, you'll say he's okay but not even in the top 5 or 6 on the day.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he is a symbol of how hypocritical and closeminded you are in certain aspects of our club, someone who will take the high road when he thinks it will benefit him, but then turn around and call our best centreback last season "a cone-headed cunt" without blinking an eye.

 

In short, you are everything that's wrong with modern day sportsfans - you think your opinion is correct because you stick to it, as if the only thing you need to prove something is true is to repeat it over and over again. And maintaining the correctness of this opinion is more important than the club.

 

That's what Lucas has to do with this.

 

*stands and applauds*

[Evil_Ways]

Am I though?

 

I'm just pointing out that the difference in quality between henderson and Allen is minimal and its certainly not clear cut who is the better player of the two.

 

You could say Allen had a better season last year but as pointed out it was his first season in the PL and when you are going to look at a players quality you look a bit further than that.

 

And please explain to me what Lucas has got to do with this?

 

I could play along though using the same narrow perspective as used earlier in this thread by others and say Lucas was fuckin dogshite, he did not even touch the ball between late November and May so he was infact totally useless.

 

It actually is clear cut who the better player is, when you forget about those meaningless statistics and actually watch the players play football.

[Code]

What Lucas has to do with this is your constant cherry-picking of stats and "observations" to fit an already cemented position, combined with a stunning inability to reconcile your behaviour in some threads with similar behaviour you deplore from others.

 

Makes no sense, not surprised seeing where it coems from.

 

What Lucas has to do with this is Allen is being mooted as a possible target, and you are trying to persuade others that maybe he is not the right choice (nothing wrong with that at all). But you decide to big up Henderson using some tenuous stats, because tenuous stats are your thing, when it would have been a stronger argument to big up Lucas, who must I remind you, is also a player of ours, whose stats are stronger and who plays in midfield as well.

 

Have I ever said anything about Allen not being the right player?

 

Are you sure you are alright Billy, those voices in your head seems to have got the best of you.

 

How have I bigged up Henderson using stats, I'm saying their stats are almost identical and I posted them to show this.

 

Swansea finished below us, henderson was a mainstay in our team, we reached two finals with Henderson in the team, Swansea got knocked out in the first round of both with Allen in their team, henderson has played four seasons in the PL, Allen has one.

 

Henderson was singled out by FIFA as one of 13 young up and coming players to watch in 2011, Allen was not, if Allen was as superior to Henderson as single minded guys like Number Zero and that clown Dude Abides would like you to think I find it funny that he's not been bought by a better club than Swansea by know, he is 22 yeras after all, not 17.

 

So again Lucas had nothing to do with it, but your confused brain just playing tricks with you.

 

But we know you won't do that because you hate Lucas and you'd be loathe to ever paint anything he does in a postive light, even if it would directly help the argument you are trying to make.

 

I dont hate Lucas, I just think he is a bit slow, is a poor tackler and positions himself badly and can easily be improved upon, maybe even by Joe Allen, who knows.

 

And what argument am I making exactly, do you even know? I highly doubt it, my argument is that Hank Moody and the Dude Abides are full of shite.

 

What Lucas has to do with it is you won't bring him up, claiming he's not part of the discussion, but in (let's say) a thread discussing the performance of Roy Hodgson as manager of England, it is perfectly reasonable to bring up and slag off Rafa Benitez as a way to....well, you'll have to help me out with that one.

 

So Lucas has got nothing to do with it then, just your confused brain playing tricks with you, stop listening to those voices Billy, maybe you should seek help?

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he will have a blinder of a game against Chelsea, and you won't even have the humility to admit it. Instead, you'll say he's okay but not even in the top 5 or 6 on the day.

 

This obsession you have with Lucas cant be healthy, so he had nothing to do with this then, who would have thought that?

 

What Lucas has to do with this is that he is a symbol of how hypocritical and closeminded you are in certain aspects of our club, someone who will take the high road when he thinks it will benefit him, but then turn around and call our best centreback last season "a cone-headed cunt" without blinking an eye.

 

Agger was our best CB last season by a country mile and he has been since Hyypia left the club.

 

Skrtel is cone headed how else do you explain the direction of the ball when he try to head it and there is more of a chance the ball going backwards than forward and if he is looking to leave the club after his only half decent season he is also a cunt.

 

Nothing to do with Lucas again, I sense a pattern here, dont you.

 

In short, you are everything that's wrong with modern day sportsfans - you think your opinion is correct because you stick to it, as if the only thing you need to prove something is true is to repeat it over and over again. And maintaining the correctness of this opinion is more important than the club.

 

Modern day sportsfan? How old are you Billy, and please dont add all your personalities together to try to avoid to look less daft than you are.

 

That's what Lucas has to do with this.

 

So he had nothing to do with it then, why am I not surprised.

[Glen C]

It actually is clear cut who the better player is, when you forget about those meaningless statistics and actually watch the players play football.

 

Exactly, i don't give two fucks about stats i go by what i see with my eyes. Stats can be used in so many different ways, but my eyes have seen henderson play bland football and be scared to try anything all season. Not good at attacking nor good at defending. My eyes also saw allen look to want the ball, trying things out and look to have a stronger mentality. I was quite fortunate as i worked in swansea for nearly two months so went to the home games with the guys i was working with so i saw him first hand. His all round game is just better than henderson and he's not scared to try things. Ive seen allen dominate a midfield in matches and control a game. Yet to see henderson do anything remotely close to it.

[billypilgrimnz]

Makes no sense, not surprised seeing where it coems from.

 

Have I ever said anything about Allen not being the right player?

 

Are you sure you are alright Billy, those voices in your head seems to have got the best of you.

 

How have I bigged up Henderson using stats, I'm saying their stats are almost identical and I posted them to show this.

 

Swansea finished below us, henderson was a mainstay in our team, we reached two finals with Henderson in the team, Swansea got knocked out in the first round of both with Allen in their team, henderson has played four seasons in the PL, Allen has one.

 

Henderson was singled out by FIFA as one of 13 young up and coming players to watch in 2011, Allen was not, if Allen was as superior to Henderson as single minded guys like Number Zero and that clown Dude Abides would like you to think I find it funny that he's not been bought by a better club than Swansea by know, he is 22 yeras after all, not 17.

 

So again Lucas had nothing to do with it, but your confused brain just playing tricks with you.

 

I dont hate Lucas, I just think he is a bit slow, is a poor tackler and positions himself badly and can easily be improved upon, maybe even by Joe Allen, who knows.

 

And what argument am I making exactly, do you even know? I highly doubt it, my argument is that Hank Moody and the Dude Abides are full of shite.

 

So Lucas has got nothing to do with it then, just your confused brain playing tricks with you, stop listening to those voices Billy, maybe you should seek help?

 

This obsession you have with Lucas cant be healthy, so he had nothing to do with this then, who would have thought that?

 

Agger was our best CB last season by a country mile and he has been since Hyypia left the club.

 

Skrtel is cone headed how else do you explain the direction of the ball when he try to head it and there is more of a chance the ball going backwards than forward and if he is looking to leave the club after his only half decent season he is also a cunt.

 

Nothing to do with Lucas again, I sense a pattern here, dont you.

 

Modern day sportsfan? How old are you Billy, and please dont add all your personalities together to try to avoid to look less daft than you are.

 

So he had nothing to do with it then, why am I not surprised.

 

My apologies; my post was not intended as an invitation for a discussion.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I thought tackling was a bad thing, code?

[ThewaytoRome]

My apologies; my post was not intended as an invitation for a discussion.

 

Billy>>>>>>Code

 

Btw code your post tried too hard, in summary it was shit.

[Bjornebye]

henderson will have a better season. but to say he is as good as allen is fucking ridiculous.

[Markmywords]

I rate Allen marginally above Henderson but I don't have any tenuous stats or vast training ground experience to back it up.

 

Disappointingly though; I dont really rate Henderson much at all.

 

Encouragingly though; I never rated Lucas.

 

Optimisically though; I think Allen has the greater potential.

[Code]

Over recent months, a new generation of young players have been steadily building reputations as superstars-in-the-making. Many, such as Neymar, Javier Pastore, Eden Hazard and Jack Wilshere, have already earned fame and renown, but there are others for whom 2011 could be their big year. Here, FIFA.com looks at some of the likely candidates.

 

Luc Castaignos

Striker, 18, Feyenoord

Often compared to Thierry Henry due his graceful, athletic style of play, Castaignos last week committed his future to Inter Milan after emerging as one the world’s most sought-after young strikers. Tall, skilful and speedy, the teenager set a new goalscoring record for the Netherlands’ U-17 side and is Feyenoord’s leading marksman this season.

 

David de Gea

Goalkeeper, 20, Atletico Madrid

Already firmly established as his club’s No1, De Gea has earned a reputation as arguably the most promising young keeper in world football. Manchester United and Arsenal have both been linked with €17m moves for a youngster likened to Iker Casillas by none other than the Spain captain himself.

 

Alan Dzagoev

Attacking midfielder, 20, CSKA Moscow

Guus Hiddink made Dzagoev Russia’s youngest-ever outfield player in 2008, lauding him as “a really clever player with the ability to make a killer pass and stretch the play”. Plenty of major clubs across Europe agree, and CSKA Moscow face a battle to hold on to their prize asset.

 

Youssef El-Arabi

Striker, 23, Caen

Identified as one of Africa’s top emerging stars, the Moroccan striker has been almost single-handedly leading Caen’s battle against relegation this season. Challenging for the Ligue 1 top scorer award in spite of his club’s woes, El-Arabi has been one of the sensations of the 2010/11 campaign and will be well worth watching in the CAF Africa Cup of Nations qualifiers.

 

Shinji Kagawa

Attacking midfielder, 21, Borussia Dortmund

Japan have a tradition of producing fine midfielders, and the evidence of the past few months suggests that Kagawa may prove to be their best yet. Since being plucked from Japan’s second tier in August for the modest sum of €350,000, this quick, skilful and tenacious youngster has emerged as one of the Bundesliga’s top performers and is a key player for the Blue Samurai at the AFC Asian Cup.

 

Jordan Henderson

Midfielder, 20, Sunderland

Composed, athletic and powerful, Henderson has been hailed as “the best young British footballer there is” by his Sunderland manager, Steve Bruce. Fabio Capello also recognised the midfielder’s talent by handing him a first senior England cap in November, while Sir Alex Ferguson has expressed a public interest in prising Henderson from his hometown team.

 

Mats Hummels

Defender, 22, Borussia Dortmund

Bayern Munich are already rueing the day they allowed Hummels to move to Dortmund. The centre-half has flourished since swapping the Allianz Arena for the Westfalen, with his intelligence, composure, power and man-marking ability suggesting he is a future stalwart for club and country.

 

Koo Ja-Cheol

Attacking midfielder, 21, Jeju United

Already emerging as one of the stars of the Asian Cup, Koo seems set to form a long-term partnership with another impressive emerging Korean midfielder, Ki Sung-Yueng. Praised for his skill and versatility by coach Cho Kwang-Rae this week, this talented playmaker looks set for a major breakthrough in 2011.

 

Erik Lamela

Attacking midfielder, 18, River Plate

Courted by Barcelona and tipped for greatness at the age of just 12, this exciting young playmaker has stayed put in Buenos Aires and is now justifying all that early hype. Blessed with vision, touch and superb passing ability, Lamela has been widely tipped as La Albiceleste’s next sensation.

 

Lucas

Attacking midfielder, 18, Sao Paulo

Creative genius, flair and dribbling ability have established this attacking midfielder at the forefront of emerging Brazilian talent. Set to thrill at the forthcoming South American U-20 Championship, Lucas is already excelling for Sao Paulo and considered a likely star of this year’s FIFA U-20 World Cup.

 

Romelu Lukaku

Striker, 17, Anderlecht

Lukaku is a true phenomenon. At just 16, already standing 6ft 4ins tall and weighing in at over 14 stone, he became the Belgian top flight's youngest-ever goalscorer. Hailed as ‘the new Didier Drogba’, this pacey and powerful predator is one of the game’s most coveted young stars.

 

Andrea Ranocchia

Centre-back, 22, Inter Milan

Considered the next in a long line of great Italian defenders, Ranocchia finalised a €12.5m move to the San Siro on 27 December after excelling for Bari, Genoa and Italy’s U-21 side. Having debuted on Sunday, the assured centre-half is set to play a major role in the defence of the European champions’ domestic and continental titles.

 

Xherdan Shaqiri

Winger or attacking midfielder, 19, Basel

A surprise inclusion in Ottmar Hitzfeld’s FIFA World Cup™ squad, Shaqiri has taken to the international scene like a duck to water. The bigger the stage, the better this skilful and creative Basel midfielder seems to play, memorably scoring his first international goal against England from fully 30 yards before opening his UEFA Champions account in Rome's Olympic Stadium.

 

FIFA.com - Players to watch in 2011

 

Jordan Henderson 'would cost Manchester United £30m transfer fee'

Jordan Henderson would cost Manchester United at least £30 million, Sunderland boss Steve Bruce has warned.

The Black Cats midfielder is rumoured to be Sir Alex Ferguson's top transfer target, as the United manager looks to replace veterans Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs.

 

 

Jordan Henderson is a Manchester United transfer target (PA)

Henderson, 20, has impressed both for Sunderland and England Under-21s this season and reports have suggested Ferguson will make a £20 million bid next summer.

 

However, Bruce has no intention of selling Henderson for that kind of money, as he views him as the 'brightest young prospect in the British game'.

 

'No way is £20 million enough for Jordan Henderson,' said Bruce ahead of Sunday's Tyne-Wear derby at Newcastle United.

.'But if Real Madrid come in and offer £30 million for Jordan then you have a problem. Players want to improve and go to a so-called bigger club.'

 

Henderson is also believed to be a target for Manchester City and Chelsea, but Bruce added that he hopes the attraction of playing for his hometown club will be enough to keep the youngster at the Stadium of Light for a few more seasons.

 

Jordan Henderson 'would cost Manchester United £30m transfer fee' | Metro.co.uk

 

 

Henderson snubs Manchester United and Chelsea as midfielder rules out summer exit from Sunderland

By Sportsmail Reporter UPDATED: 12:38 GMT, 8 March 2011

 

Sunderland midfielder Jordan Henderson has no intention of leaving the club during the summer.

 

The 20-year-old's blossoming reputation, fuelled by a first senior England cap, has alerted potential suitors to his talent with Manchester United and Chelsea monitoring his situation.

 

However, amid speculation that a deal has already been done - something manager Steve Bruce has dismissed - Henderson has expressed his desire to remain with his home-town club.

 

He told the Journal: 'I do feel I have improved this season. I'm a better player than I was 12 months ago.

 

'It has been another great season for me. I have had some ups and downs along the way, but it's all part of my development. I have coped okay with the second season thing.

 

'I'm improving every day, that is what I'm aiming to do. I'm enjoying myself at Sunderland, I'm not looking to leave.

 

'I'm playing every week in the Premier League and that's all I have ever dreamed of doing.

 

'I'm young and I'm playing for Sunderland. It's something I love doing. I just want to keep doing that, keep improving, keep getting better as a player.'

Henderson was catapulted into the first-team picture after impressing his boss in training during the first few weeks of Bruce's time on Wearside.

 

He has been virtually ever-present since forcing his way into the starting line-up, and while his manager admits there have been times when he might have been rested for his own sake had injuries not taken their toll on the squad, he remains a key man.

 

Chief executive Steve Walton is adamant that the club will not have to offload players to fund a summer recruitment drive.

He told supporters at a talk-in in South Shields on Tuesday night: 'Players will absolutely not have to be sold to balance the books.

'Any sales will be dictated by what is right for the manager and balancing the dressing room.

 

'However, of course we can't legislate for transfers which come from left field, such as those involving Darren Bent and Lorik Cana.'

 

Bent stunned Sunderland by handing an a transfer request in January, and subsequently left in a £24million switch to Aston Villa.

Bruce has already drawn up plans to replace the England international during the close-season having decided not to spend in haste during the final days of the winter window.

Former skipper Cana left for Galatasaray last summer just a year after arriving on Wearside in a £5million switch from Marseille.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1364081/Jordan-Henderson-snubs-Manchester-United-Chelsea-midfielder-rules-Sunderland-exit.html

[sh#t waffle]

Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear Magazine.

[Wembley74]

Joe looks promising but we need a couple of players that we know will fit in straight away.

[LFC64]

If Rodgers can get us moving off the ball the way Swansea did and get henderson the same passing options Allen had. Henderson would comfortably out-perform IMO.[/quote

 

Yes I think there's an element of the tried and trusted in bringing Allen in the same as it is for most managers to want to work with players familiar with what Rodgers expects of the team and who can hit the ground running.

 

I agree if he can get the same movement off the ball and the same high pressing game going as with Swansea then this will be of benefit to a few of our players.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

hahahaha! Steve fucking Bruce!

 

Thankfully I'll trust my eyes over Steve Bruce's opinion on Jordan Henderson. £30m to Real Madrid. Hahahaha.

[Crazyhorse7778]

Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear Magazine.

 

Quality.

[llego]

Holy shit billy. A tour de force.

[Josef Svejk]

Jordan Henderson

Midfielder, 20, Sunderland

Composed, athletic and powerful, Henderson has been hailed as “the best young British footballer there is” by his Sunderland manager, Steve Bruce. Fabio Capello also recognised the midfielder’s talent by handing him a first senior England cap in November, while Sir Alex Ferguson has expressed a public interest in prising Henderson from his hometown team.

FIFA.com - Players to watch in 2011

 

Jordan Henderson 'would cost Manchester United £30m transfer fee'

Jordan Henderson would cost Manchester United at least £30 million, Sunderland boss Steve Bruce has warned.

The Black Cats midfielder is rumoured to be Sir Alex Ferguson's top transfer target, as the United manager looks to replace veterans Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs.

 

Jordan Henderson is a Manchester United transfer target (PA)

Henderson, 20, has impressed both for Sunderland and England Under-21s this season and reports have suggested Ferguson will make a £20 million bid next summer.

 

However, Bruce has no intention of selling Henderson for that kind of money, as he views him as the 'brightest young prospect in the British game'.

 

'No way is £20 million enough for Jordan Henderson,' said Bruce ahead of Sunday's Tyne-Wear derby at Newcastle United.

.'But if Real Madrid come in and offer £30 million for Jordan then you have a problem. Players want to improve and go to a so-called bigger club.'

 

Henderson is also believed to be a target for Manchester City and Chelsea, but Bruce added that he hopes the attraction of playing for his hometown club will be enough to keep the youngster at the Stadium of Light for a few more seasons.

 

Jordan Henderson 'would cost Manchester United £30m transfer fee' | Metro.co.uk

 

 

Henderson snubs Manchester United and Chelsea as midfielder rules out summer exit from Sunderland

By Sportsmail Reporter UPDATED: 12:38 GMT, 8 March 2011

 

Sunderland midfielder Jordan Henderson has no intention of leaving the club during the summer.

 

The 20-year-old's blossoming reputation, fuelled by a first senior England cap, has alerted potential suitors to his talent with Manchester United and Chelsea monitoring his situation.

 

However, amid speculation that a deal has already been done - something manager Steve Bruce has dismissed - Henderson has expressed his desire to remain with his home-town club.

 

He told the Journal: 'I do feel I have improved this season. I'm a better player than I was 12 months ago.

 

'It has been another great season for me. I have had some ups and downs along the way, but it's all part of my development. I have coped okay with the second season thing.

 

'I'm improving every day, that is what I'm aiming to do. I'm enjoying myself at Sunderland, I'm not looking to leave.

 

'I'm playing every week in the Premier League and that's all I have ever dreamed of doing.

 

'I'm young and I'm playing for Sunderland. It's something I love doing. I just want to keep doing that, keep improving, keep getting better as a player.'

Henderson was catapulted into the first-team picture after impressing his boss in training during the first few weeks of Bruce's time on Wearside.

 

He has been virtually ever-present since forcing his way into the starting line-up, and while his manager admits there have been times when he might have been rested for his own sake had injuries not taken their toll on the squad, he remains a key man.

 

Chief executive Steve Walton is adamant that the club will not have to offload players to fund a summer recruitment drive.

He told supporters at a talk-in in South Shields on Tuesday night: 'Players will absolutely not have to be sold to balance the books.

'Any sales will be dictated by what is right for the manager and balancing the dressing room.

 

'However, of course we can't legislate for transfers which come from left field, such as those involving Darren Bent and Lorik Cana.'

 

Bent stunned Sunderland by handing an a transfer request in January, and subsequently left in a £24million switch to Aston Villa.

Bruce has already drawn up plans to replace the England international during the close-season having decided not to spend in haste during the final days of the winter window.

Former skipper Cana left for Galatasaray last summer just a year after arriving on Wearside in a £5million switch from Marseille.

 

Jordan Henderson snubs Manchester United and Chelsea as midfielder rules out Sunderland exit | Mail Online

 

Your point? That people can be completely and utterly wrong?

[Mr Mojo]

Anybody think Rodgers may be trying to get Allen lined up, but stalling till Henderson is back training to take a good at him and evaluate whether he could actually be the answer without signing Allen?

Probably not, but just a thought that's worked its way into my head just now.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Piscinin Stats + Watching = Lucas good aerially.

Moody Watching = Lucas not good aerially.

 

I don't know, it's almost as if the more information you have the better it is.

 

Hmn, there it is: The catchy one liner. Of course, it's not actually how much information, but the quality of the information which counts.

 

That contextless piece of data doesn't say much about Lucas' ability in the air. You'd need pieces of information like who he was up against in the '50/50' and then, in order to ascertain how good or bad he was in the air, where the ball went. Then there's other factors which will wildly skew stats, like the style of football a team plays. For example, if you play in a team which keeps a shit loads of possession and plays the ball short, the amount of aerial 50/50s you're going to make is, well, minimal. That's regardless of how great you may or may not be in the air.

 

I'm not saying stats are useless, I'm saying most stats without context are virtually meaningless in deciding the quality of a player. I'm used to working with a lot of data (albeit economic and political) and I don't deny their uses. However, for use in sport, they're only a small part of the picture.

 

The problem arises when people use a single piece of data, like 'minutes per aerial 50/50 won' to show how good a player is in the air. It's just not a reliable tool when used in solitary.

 

No, they only tell part of the story, they don't tell you the reason's why, they don't tell you what they can't measure, and there are so many different stats that it is very difficult to interpret them.

 

Well, I totally agree with that.

 

However they are completely unbiased and they record the many thousands of events that have happend that we have absolutely no chance of remembering, so they can clearly be of use. If the stats are so shit at giving a good picture of quality, why are all the top clubs investing in them and the analysis of them?

 

Because they use much, much more than contextless bits of data. Again, I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that stats are totally useless. I'm saying, and I think you'll probably agree given what you've just said, that they're virtually meaningless (although, people derive meaning to suit) unless they are properly analysed. That's what clubs do. They don't do what has been done here today. What has been done here today is a totally shit way of judging a player and it neglects many important factors.

 

You raise an interesting point, though; stats where heavily used in the recruitment of Downing, Henderson, et al. 'Chance creation', I think was the important one. Hmn.

 

Keeping to your example of Gerrard and Spearing, and your later post about short passes and long balls. I would have personally thought, and I think pretty much everyone else on here would as well, that Gerrard not only plays more long balls than Spearing but is also much better at them. Last season they actually both played 12.5% of their passes as long balls, Stevie's accuracy of those long balls was pretty good at 73%, but Jay's was great at 79%. Does this tell the whole story? No, as not all long balls are equal, but does the fact that I, and as I said I think many on here would think (although perhaps its just me) Gerrard to be clearly better, suggest that our bias gets in the way? Do we overrate Gerrard and/or underrate Spearing ability at passing? Quite possibly.

 

I honestly don't care what the stats say; Gerrard is a better passer of the ball than Spearing. Of course, the stats don't actually 'say' anything, they are a numeric figure which encapsulates many different sets of circumstances into the same area, which was the point I was making below.

 

A long ball is a long ball in a stat. It doesn't matter how many of those long balls split the defence and are the perfect weight to run onto, or how many are to an unmarked player on the wing, who has to stop his run because if he'd carried on it'd have missed him, they're all counted the same. So, unless context is added to those stats, they're pretty much meaningless.

 

That is a pretty rubbish point Hank. That is not stats actually saying anything, it is just one event. The stats only start to say something when the events happen hundreds of times over the season.

 

Well, they offer a trend of multiples of those single events. My point was to illustrate that they conflate lots of different types of plays into one easily digestible stat. That makes them pointless when it comes to deriving meaning from them.

 

1)Carra kicking 3 yards to Suarez 65 yards from goal, Suarez goes on an amazing run, beating 7 players and scoring the best goal ever seen = Carra 1 assist. However it is his only assist of the season

2) Suarez picks the ball up from Reina, beats 7 players, runs passed the goal keeper and plays in Jonjo for a tap in = Suarez 1 assist. This is one assist of many over the season

 

Stats = Carra and Suarez aren't equally creative.

Watching = Carra and Suarez aren't equally creative.

 

The problem arises when you compared different players from different teams, in different systems, against different opponents (even when playing the same team, you often play against different players), in different leagues.

 

They're so unreliable unless analysed properly. Even then, it's still only a small part of the equation.