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EU Referendum

Should the UK pull out of Europe all together?  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK pull out of Europe all together?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      35
    • Don't know
      5


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The tories all want to get rid of the working time directive and smash employees rights but they are using schmokescreens to hide it. They use this as an excuse to further that agenda where possible.

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The tories all want to get rid of the working time directive and smash employees rights but they are using schmokescreens to hide it. They use this as an excuse to further that agenda where possible.

 

I saw one of the Star Destroyer mob on the news this morning saying something about 'removing the shackles' to get the economy moving. I think we all know what that means. Oh the joys.

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Also Nick Clegg is proposing more protection for employers today, how they should be allowed to say what the fuck they want to employees 'behind closed doors' 'off the record' and not be held to account for it by tribunal.

 

On top of the new rules regarding tribunals, which basically makes it nigh-on impossible to take an employer to tribunal for most people I think they have pretty much sealed off any check and balance on employers.

 

The pace they are working at is incredible, most people have not got a clue what is going on, however they are wrecking it enough to make it so shite for people, Cameron is playing right into my warm hands.

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Also Nick Clegg is proposing more protection for employers today, how they should be allowed to say what the fuck they want to employees 'behind closed doors' 'off the record' and not be held to account for it by tribunal.

 

On top of the new rules regarding tribunals, which basically makes it nigh-on impossible to take an employer to tribunal for most people I think they have pretty much sealed off any check and balance on employers.

 

The pace they are working at is incredible, most people have not got a clue what is going on, however they are wrecking it enough to make it so shite for people, Cameron is playing right into my warm hands.

 

Certainly not my experience (I employ 4). One especially took the piss (work must fit around an extra-marital affair) and the best advice offered by ACAS was to offer her 5k to part company. Causes a lot of trouble in small business as dependable staff have to work extra hours and they then become unhappy or you have to hire temps at a high rate of pay.

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Fucking Cameron and his limp dick pleasing of the right wing and Daily Mail readers.

 

This referendum farce practically guarantees that we have no influence in Europe until 2017 or his joke of a coalition gets voted out. Even Howe understood that we need influence in the EU, not hanging about the edges like a wet fart that no-one will acknowledge

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I voted yes. Not because remaining in the EU is an absolute disaster right now, but I believe it will be in the future as integration continues and the organisation expands. We won't ever get another referendum on this so if we vote to remain with the EU now we'll be stuck with them forever. I don't want the UK to be part of a federal Europe. It's not xenophobic, I just think the UK should be in charge of it's own destiny. The EU has implemented certain laws that we have to abide with and the more integrated we become, the more laws they will pass from Brussels and the more we have to put up with whether it suits the country or not.

I do think there are a lot of good things about the EU and in a lot of ways it has improved things for the UK but with the Eurozone crisis and the continued assimilation of poor Eastern European/Balkan countries, I just can't help feeling remaining part of the EU is going to lead to disaster at some point in the future. As an organisation it's moved away from being a trading bloc and is moving to a United States of Europe. If it's a choice to remain independent and safe on the outside or stuck in with no chance of escape, I say we cut ourselves free now.

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Would disagree, it is and will primarily remain a trading bloc that we have to be part of.

 

As outsiders, we'll get shit deals plus our primary use to USA is as an entry point into Europe with common language and culture.

 

I can understand if you disagree, but in that case we should have an immediate referendum. Waiting until 2017 just puts us into a shit purgatory for years

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Can we have two sides of this laid out by someone who's got a different approach than "if you vote <x> you're a stupid cunt"

 

I've got a view but it's not based on much more than a gut feeling and a basic knowledge.

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I'm obviously biased in favour of Europe - what with living there and experiencing life as an immigrant in Eastern Europe, however I don't think it matters what the debate is because the vote isn't for 4 years and is dependant on the Tories (or possible coalition) gaining power at the next election

 

What is important is that Cameron now views his influence in Europe as so weak that he is prepared for the UK to have no power in the EU for the next 4 years. He has effectively swapped any possible input into the Union for the votes of the anti-EU lobby (you don't get a referendum unless he's in power) whilst trying to pretend he is in favour ("I will campaign heart and soul to remain within the EU")

 

This is, without doubt, the most cynical piece of shit political manoeuvring that I have ever seen (and I watch Viktor Orban on a daily basis). Personally I blame those cunts in the Lib Dems for enabling these Etonian wankers to get to a position where they can do this.

 

Edit: yeah, I'm fucking angry about this and before the poodle-fucking mental health patient comes accusing me of not seeing both sides, may I suggest that he swallows a bottle of pain-killers (we're allowed to say that now?)

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I love Europe. Trouble is our place is full of bureaucratic mongs.

''You cant sell curly bananas, You can't sell yellow oranges you can't sell unstamped farm eggs, etc etc, everyone else in Europe ignores it we employ council departments to enforce it.

 

I would vote to leave because I cannot think of one reason it has personally benefited me.

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Can we have two sides of this laid out by someone who's got a different approach than "if you vote <x> you're a stupid cunt"

 

I've got a view but it's not based on much more than a gut feeling and a basic knowledge.

 

Not sure I know any more about it than you but have some views.

 

I don't like the way the EU is structured. The only body that can propose new laws is unelected (Council of the EU?). These laws are then voted on by the elected MEPs (EU Parliament?). This does not seem right to me as the power to influence policy seems to rest more strongly with the unelected body.

 

I think the argument about trade is a scare tactic being used by those who want to stay in. We are net importers from the EU so there are a lot of countries who do very well selling to the UK. If we left they aren't going to just stop selling to us. With this in mind I cannot see any future UK government accepting dictats from the EU that limited our ability to export to them. The EU appears quite happy to trade with other countries such as US, China, Brazil and so on. Why should the UK be treated so differently?

 

I believe that the concerns that the US have is that they see the UK not as a backdoor to deliver goods and services into the EU but a backdoor to influence EU policy.

 

Had we adopted Schengen then that would have been a loss but as we didn't it won't make any difference to us.

 

The EU would lose our net contribution. Not sure how much it is but think about £8bn per year.

 

The ability of a UK national to gain work abroad will probably be severely curtailed if we weren't in the EU. But immigration from EU countries would also be limited in a similar way. Unless there was some sort of agreement to maintain the status quo.

 

We would probably be able to bring back a small amount of duty free booze and fags again from our hols. But we wouldn't be able to do the Calais run and fill a transit van like we can at the moment.

 

We may hit some issues with energy supplies as I think we are now net importers from the EU.

 

The absence of EU control would enable the UK to once again negotiate trade deals with our histroic trading partners. (this was what the straight banana vs bendy banana argument was really about a few years ago)

 

The homogenisation of Eurpoe would continue without us until a new species Homo Europeanicus emerged.

 

A personal bugbear of mine is the six-monthly movement of the EU from Brussels to Strasbourg. Costs an absolute fortune to support this and is symbolic of the EU inability to get the right solution but agree to half arsed compromises.

 

Having said all of the above I am still in favour of staying in but want the EU to have less influence in the UK. I would also like us to adopt Schengen and the Working Time Directives.

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To me Westminster is like a foreign country. I'd like to see the back off all these uber politicians and have my local man answer to me.

I know my councillors and MP but they can do fuck all for me because I am not Shell or The Daily Mail.

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Would be madness to leave as its always easier to influence on the inside looking out rather than vice versa.

We are also a much weaker nation than we used to be as we are so heavily dependent on imports and having got as many big companies as we used to and the ones we do rely on setting up in other countries to cut costs.

We have got some shite from the EU at times as I think they are suspicious of our lack of integration and our selective use of EU policies,the fairer employment laws are often ignored by the UK(quelle surprise) and I reckon some other nations wonder why.

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Would be madness to leave as its always easier to influence on the inside looking out rather than vice versa.

We are also a much weaker nation than we used to be as we are so heavily dependent on imports and having got as many big companies as we used to and the ones we do rely on setting up in other countries to cut costs.

We have got some shite from the EU at times as I think they are suspicious of our lack of integration and our selective use of EU policies,the fairer employment laws are often ignored by the UK(quelle surprise) and I reckon some other nations wonder why.

 

Seriously mate how does the EU help you personally? As well as the EU being our biggest market, we are the EU's biggest market. European firms wont simply stop selling in the UK they will have to adapt.

I cannot think of one thing outside of personal travel that being in the EU benefits me, This is speaking as someone who exports a lot.

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I quite like the working time directive. Working Time Directive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I don't like David Cameron's Europe speech – the key points | Politics | guardian.co.uk

He set out his broad aims but avoided going into details about what he would demand as part of the planned "new settlement" with the EU. He did suggest, however, that the working time directive should be abandoned.

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We have a shit load of environmental protection we wouldn't otherwise have. Daily I deal with Euro regs and laws as a result, thank fuck we have them, without them they'd be a damn sight less control on pollution, mitigation of development etc.

 

For that reason I'm in. Notwithstanding, human rights legislation, economic trading, infrastructure grants (Liverpool would be much worse off without), etc.

 

Yeah, its not perfect. But I believe we're and me personally are better off in than out.

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Cameron and his mates are shitting themselves that the those who want out of the EU and want to massively limit immigration from other EU countries are now heading for UKIP in their droves and he and his buddies will lose the next election because of it. Today's announcement is a sop to those people and also to the back bench Tories who made Major's government the unelectable rabble they were, and is short termism and self protectionism at its worst.

 

Tooth was spot on in this thread, the Tories who want out want to make it even easier to sack people and erode employees rights even further. There are aspects of the EU that are infuriating such as the massive farming subsidies that mainly benefit the French and some of the crazy fisheries policies, but we only ever seem to get one side in this country with majority of our press being firmly right wing and having vested interests in wanting the UK out (surely if the American based Aussie Murdoch is so determined that the UK leave, it would make anyone suspicious?). We don't hear stories like how the likes of Nissan, Toyota and Honda all opened factories here because we were in the EU and they could produce products with a market of over 400 million people. The company I work for is Spanish and operates in 6 EU countries, I'm sure it and many companies like it are alarmed at the short termism and accompanying lack of certainty that today's announcement by Cameron is set to bring for the next five years.

 

I hope if we do have the referendum and the country vote to stay in the EU that these Europhobics climb back under their rock and shut the fuck up.

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Seriously mate how does the EU help you personally? As well as the EU being our biggest market, we are the EU's biggest market. European firms wont simply stop selling in the UK they will have to adapt.

I cannot think of one thing outside of personal travel that being in the EU benefits me, This is speaking as someone who exports a lot.

 

Its not about me personally,its about the nation as a whole.

We arent big enough or self sufficient enough to support ourselves,all our family treasures have been sold off to the highest bidder.

Other nations will still import to us as we need them for our economy to function as we are so dependent on others for our goods.

They will also continue to buy our goods but if we stopped them exporting to us we'd be in the shit. This simply cant happen anyway as they own most of our industries too.

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I think people would be surprised at how much the EU has impacted on their lives. This country would work you for 60 hours a week for less money if it could. The Europeans have a more mature attitude to virtually everything, be it family, work, the dreaded phrase 'work life' balance. The right of the Tory party cling on to some Churchillian dream that if we fuck Europe off we can somehow find solace with the English speaking world, the commonwealth and the United States, but haven't quite got with the programme yet and realised none of said countries give a fuck about us.

 

Saying that, I don't understand why the EU's goal has to be closer and closer integration. I think strength comes from diversity too and a melting pot like Europe just can't be welded together in as hap hazard a fashion as it has been without some major fallout down the line, be it cultural or economic or probably both.

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Easy question for me as who supports us leaving? Cameron and his mad little England tories and UKip that's who and anything they support i tend to think is completely wrong so that's a No for me

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If i had to go by the working time directive im fucked.

Id loose about 50 hours a month(about £400).

It my choice if i want to work

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