Stoke City v. Liverpool 10/01/09

[snez1]

Yeah but start a player who has consistently played shit for us over the last 2 seasons? nonsene.

 

Who are you referring to?

[Carra_is_legend]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with starting with the team he did in the light of who was available, but the changes he made just weren't right in my view.

 

Kuyt on his own upfront doesn't work though Paul.

 

Apart from that, I didn't have any complaints with the team he started. However, the substitutions are painfully clock based. As I said in my previous post, it was painfully blatantly fucking obvious we were piss poor in the 1st half. Yet Rafa waits until 60 mins and then 75 mins to make his substitutions.

 

As someone said (probably you), we should have had 3 fucking substitutions (only because we are only allowed 3) at half time or around 55 mins at worst.

 

And Rafa should fucking come clean on where he stands with Keane.

[stringvest]

It's only one game. But after a few games where we'd started to play with fluidity and invention, reverting back to a formation that was bound to have Stoke laughing into their shirts was not the brightest thing to do. We looked worse than Stoke until Torres came on, and it was the introduction of pace, intelligence and movement that switched Gerrard on.

[Stephen Adams.]

The facts are if we are to win the league we are going to need bucketfuls of luck going for us and relatively poor seasons from Chelsea and Man yoo.

 

We dont have enough quality players to match them and of the ones we do have, masch is playing the worst football of his life, Torres is just coming back from injury and Stevie isnt upto his normal standards.

 

Like someone said earlier, the likes of Kuyt, bennayoun and lucas wouldn't look out of place in the Stoke squad.

 

Its gonna be a horrible few months guys, hang in there.

 

Have to disagree there.

Gerrard's got 13 goals this season and has dominated a lot of games.

[Badix]

Who are you referring to?

 

:wallbutt: Come on, no need to play dumb is there?

[Stephen Adams.]

Skrtel was pretty solid for someone who's been out for so long with such a serious injury.

Sami wasn't bad either.

[zigackly]

Look zig, Im not keane's biggest fan but having both torres AND keane on the bench for 60 minutes? No one can guarantee any player will score, not even torres but for god's sake, let's make them scared of us from the start.

 

If torres isnt fit to last 60 minutes, he should be on the bench imo. Start him (or keane) then if we have to make a change swap them over.

 

It pisses me off endlessly that we ALWAYS wait until the hour mark before we make a change even if it aint working. Why is that? Why do we only give ourselves 30 minutes in a 90 minute game to make any effect?

 

I'm not going to disagree with you on the subs, particularly when I was suggesting we should bring a striker on for Lucas at half time. I don't believe Keane would have been any better than Kuyt up top on his own though, in fact I'm betting he would have got shoved out of the game and hardly had a touch.

[snez1]

:wallbutt: Come on, no need to play dumb is there?

 

If you mean Dirk then frankly you are wrong. He's out scored Keane this season and far out played him.

[zigackly]

It's only one game. But after a few games where we'd started to play with fluidity and invention, reverting back to a formation that was bound to have Stoke laughing into their shirts was not the brightest thing to do.

 

It was the same formation and personnel, barring an injury, a player away on international duty (I have to assume since he was not in the squad), and one unforced change, which beat Newcastle 5-1.

[shanks59]

The facts are if we are to win the league we are going to need bucketfuls of luck going for us and relatively poor seasons from Chelsea and Man yoo.

 

We dont have enough quality players to match them and of the ones we do have, masch is playing the worst football of his life, Torres is just coming back from injury and Stevie isnt upto his normal standards.

 

Like someone said earlier, the likes of Kuyt, bennayoun and lucas wouldn't look out of place in the Stoke squad.

 

Its gonna be a horrible few months guys, hang in there.

 

Come on, Gerrard has been brilliant most of the season, particularly lately.

 

Even today, when he was, in relative terms, poor, he hit the bar, then near the end hit the post .. :whistle:

[billybonzo]

Have to disagree there.

Gerrard's got 13 goals this season and has dominated a lot of games.

 

In respect of goals scored your right mate,as regards his all round game, maybe its just the way he is playing these days gives me that impression, more tactically aware etc.

[billybonzo]

Come on, Gerrard has been brilliant most of the season, particularly lately.

 

Even today, when he was, in relative terms, poor, he hit the bar, then near the end hit the post .. :whistle:

 

Yeah your right, my bad

[Stephen Adams.]

Stop whistling, please

[Gods back]

It's only one game. But after a few games where we'd started to play with fluidity and invention, reverting back to a formation that was bound to have Stoke laughing into their shirts was not the brightest thing to do. We looked worse than Stoke until Torres came on, and it was the introduction of pace, intelligence and movement that switched Gerrard on.

 

I honestly didnt think we looked any better when Torres came on.He"s not match fit,but those 25 mins will have helped.

[stringvest]

It was the same formation and personnel, barring an injury, a player away on international duty (I have to assume since he was not in the squad), and one unforced change, which beat Newcastle 5-1.

 

Where to start? We played two invention-free combative midfielders in the middle of the park, we played a woeful excuse for an attacking player up front on his own, and our best player who clearly doesn't trust that attacker too far deep off him, and unwilling to make runs as he knows the attacker will lose the ball.

 

Bear in mind we are playing a team with very little attacking threat apart from set pieces, who play a rigid 4-4-2, and have a back 4 susceptible to pace and invention.

[stringvest]

I honestly didnt think we looked any better when Torres came on.He"s not match fit,but those 25 mins will have helped.

 

did you not notice how Gerrard was committing himself by making runs? He'll make dozens of runs when Torres plays, as he knows there's a good chance he might actually receive the ball. He hit the post in the last 5 minutes by doing precisely that.

 

We were still playing poorly, but at least we looked dangerous.

[zigackly]

Where to start? We played two invention-free combative midfielders in the middle of the park, we played a woeful excuse for an attacking player up front on his own, and our best player who clearly doesn't trust that attacker too far deep off him, and unwilling to make runs as he knows the attacker will lose the ball.

 

Bear in mind we are playing a team with very little attacking threat apart from set pieces, who play a rigid 4-4-2, and have a back 4 susceptible to pace and invention.

 

My only point being, we did not "revert" to a different formation, we played the same one which has got us top of an admittedly shite league this season.

 

Perhaps we could have started Keane up top, but he's not made for that type of physical game, and perhaps we could have played Babel on the wing, but you never know if he's going to be arsed or not, so the formation and personnel wasn't the problem for me.

 

Having said that, I would have changed to 4-4-2 at half time as it clearly wasn't working.

[Trucker Paddy]

If you mean Dirk then frankly you are wrong. He's out scored Keane this season and far out played him.

 

Hes had double the minutes on the field that Keane has had.

[stringvest]

My only point being, we did not "revert" to a different formation, we played the same one which has got us top of an admittedly shite league this season.

 

Perhaps we could have started Keane up top, but he's not made for that type of physical game, and perhaps we could have played Babel on the wing, but you never know if he's going to be arsed or not, so the formation and personnel wasn't the problem for me.

 

Having said that, I would have changed to 4-4-2 at half time as it clearly wasn't working.

 

It has never worked with Kuyt in that role.

[shanks59]

I know, what a shit house. Why didn't he pick Keane? It's not like he'd missed a fucking bag full of sitters in his last game is it?

 

And why not pick Torres? It's not as if he has been injured for ages, wouldn't have been match sharp and could have picked up another injury against those cloggers is it?

 

Gob shtie.

 

The Keane apologists are gonna get you .. :whistle:

[George Costanza]

One things for sure. Rafa has massively fucked up buying Keane. £20m completely and utterly wasted.

[zigackly]

It has never worked with Kuyt in that role.

 

I'm not going to bother putting up examples where it has, you shouldn't have to think too far back for one. I agree with you anyway that he is not a lone striker. Neither is Keane though. It's funny that it wasn't long ago people were crying out for Kuyt to be played as a striker, and I couldn't understand it at the time, as I haven't seen him as a striker for a long time. Fact is, we only have one striker in the squad who has proven he is good enough for us, and he's still returning to fitness.

[zigackly]

One things for sure. Rafa has massively fucked up buying Keane. £20m completely and utterly wasted.

 

Yeah, Keane looks like a busted flush to me. Plenty on here thought he was worth a pop for a bit less money though, and we know the manager didn't want him at that price as Barry was his first choice. For me, that was Parry's fuckup, buying him for £20M when he was desperate to sign for us.

[snez1]

Hes had double the minutes on the field that Keane has had.

 

And yet heasn't managed to miss kick an open goal and fall on his arse goal 17 times.....

[Carra_is_legend]

One things for sure. Rafa has massively fucked up buying Keane. £20m completely and utterly wasted.

 

Yep. And I can't help but think that Fergie was right when he said he was surprised at the price we paid him.