Dubai and Liverpool FC

[Dan Vito Corleone]

if the fans DID by some miracle purchase the club how would they fund future player purchases and how would they build the stadium?

 

That too. Unless of course they intended to stay at Anfield, not something that can or should be discounted.

[coop]

Like Andy has put anyone who has been lucky enough to be able to have a rough idea of what Dubai are willing to do for the club would realise we would be in a far better state then we currently but because of the situation we are in we are bound to be sceptical.

 

I was told a long time ago when it was DIC that was interested that there is no way DIC would spend money in an Abramovich manner but if Rafa wanted a player they would do their upmost to make sure the manager got the player he wanted.

 

The stadium if DIC had taken over would be well on its way to been built now as Dubai have made it clear that is one of the first things to do.

 

The club would be run from top to bottom in a proffesional manner and this means no room for people like Rick Parry as the CEO and David Moores as an Honourary Life President.

[redrosetints]

OK - the 1st thing you have to reemember is it's not quite as simple of "if we loan twit and twat £350m, we get £30m in interest". If it was that simple banks all over the globe would be falling over themselves to loan them the money an they are not, only RBS are. The 1st question RBS ask, is "if we loan these 2 £350m, will we get it back?". Now at the moment it seems RBS are the only bank on the planet who are confident that these two can make the payments. They mitigate that risk by charging interest at a higher rate than normal. That was a decision RBS made 9 months ago. In that 9 months, RBS's position is weaker, they have made losses like never before. Their partner on the deal Wachovia are on the brink of bankrupcy. Fi8nally and most importantly, G&H no longer have the same assets as they had 12 months ago - so if LFC fail to make the profit to pass to Kop Football, how do G&H meet the repayments. With us doing nothing, this deal is very fucking far from certain. We don't need to hit RBS with a loss of £30m, we just need to hit RBS with enough of a loss or disruption to their business that instead of saying "well to loan to them we charge stupid percent" they just decide there is too much of a risk to loan to them.

 

Remember G&H are very far from certain to get this money without us getting involved. Remember RBS is not just RBS - it's the Natwest too, as well as many other brands to their business. As someone mentioned on this thread earlier, imagine we have a concerted campaign for one week of LFC fans booking appointments in branches or RBS and Natwest up and down the country seeking new accounts, new mortgages, insurace schemes with no intention of buying anything from them. We tie up all their sales staff for a week. In that time they sell nothing - we don't even have to take away our business from them, we just stop them generating new business. Role that on to sending their customer services emails and letters, all that will need to be replied to and use up valuable resources that should be getting used on their own customers. Imagine running a demo/picket outside key branches - pissing off regular customers, perhaps even making them consider moving banks. All of these things can cause disruption and hassle and that's just what I'm thinking of off the top of my head now. We can do this - but it needs all of us to get stuck in and do it. We have hundreds of thousands of fans up and down the country, we need to get as many as possible on board to win this battle.

 

OK your positivity has given me a hope it would work. I certainly think the market conditions are alot less favourable now than in January and the state of T&G's other business' is also alot worse than Jan. So maybe it could make a difference. I just feel that big money deals such as this will be done on a purely financial basis nothing we can do, the good news is that as mentioned with the conditions all round alot less favourable now, then perhaps RBS just wont refinance anyway. I also think the spectre of Citeh pinching our CL spot and leaving a massive hole in the yanks plans means they may also choose to seel up anyway.

[redrosetints]

I can only assume banks aren't stupid.

the banks in this country will surely have observed there is a new player on the block and there is a real competitior for CL league places, without which no way on this earth can liverpool make repayments. if they give the yanks an extention of 6 months past jan they are mad.

 

ooh, I dont know, selling a Gerrard here or a Torres there would keep teh Yanks in business for another couple of seasons.

[WaltonRed]

who to get as Director of Football etc.QUOTE]

 

No thank you

[Neil G]

ooh, I dont know, selling a Gerrard here or a Torres there would keep teh Yanks in business for another couple of seasons.

 

And if the banks refinance on that basis, they miss out on maybe 20 years of good business from Dubai for the sake of two from G&H.

[redrosetints]

ShareLFC is a crackpot idea developed by a crackpot. There's no way it will ever succeed.

 

No I agree, not in it's present form. Onc they have 500m to buy us out, where will they get the money to build a new stadium and buy players ?

Hence going into bed with DIC. If ShareLFC could raise 100m, it could be own a slice of the club with representation on the board. DIC would pay the additional 400m, but the players and build the stadium.

 

Remember our primary objcetive is to be self financing, we need the stadium built and without it we will never achieve our goals.

[redrosetints]

And if the banks refinance on that basis, they miss out on maybe 20 years of good business from Dubai for the sake of two from G&H.

 

Oh good answer, your making me believe we'll be rid soon, just when Id kind of got used to the fact they will sit this out for a long as possible.

 

Bastard ;)

[aws]

No I agree, not in it's present form. Onc they have 500m to buy us out, where will they get the money to build a new stadium and buy players ?

Hence going into bed with DIC. If ShareLFC could raise 100m, it could be own a slice of the club with representation on the board. DIC would pay the additional 400m, but the players and build the stadium.

 

Remember our primary objcetive is to be self financing, we need the stadium built and without it we will never achieve our goals.

 

If they bought the club for £500m that wouldn't go into the yanks pockets as most of it would be to clear all debts.

 

The annual profit from an interest free club would be more than enough to give the manager £20m or so net every year for transfers and the club could easily raise new debt if it wanted to make a big splash in the market.

 

The stadium would be built on debt which would be paid for with the additional turnover.

 

The problem is raising the £500m in the first place not running the club afterwards.

[Red Nick]

If they bought the club for £500m that wouldn't go into the yanks pockets as most of it would be to clear all debts.

 

The annual profit from an interest free club would be more than enough to give the manager £20m or so net every year for transfers and the club could easily raise new debt if it wanted to make a big splash in the market.

 

The stadium would be built on debt which would be paid for with the additional turnover.

 

The problem is raising the £500m in the first place not running the club afterwards.

 

Operating profit with a great season would be around 40m so yes they could give rafa 20m Pa transfer budget or 40m without building the new stadium however the debt on the new stadium would impact on transfers until it was completed

 

However your right, actually collecting 100000 x5000 squid wont be easy, it alright making pledges but it is actually paying the money over that counts so Ideally you'd want 120000 members just to allow fot some peoples change for circumstances and the thier two third saway from that

Just to add that there are other problems to do with FSA and protecting everybodies money especially if the 500m is raised and they cant buy the club and there are huge costs in setting up a company like this

[Carra_is_legend]

If they bought the club for £500m that wouldn't go into the yanks pockets as most of it would be to clear all debts.

 

The annual profit from an interest free club would be more than enough to give the manager £20m or so net every year for transfers and the club could easily raise new debt if it wanted to make a big splash in the market.

 

The stadium would be built on debt which would be paid for with the additional turnover.

 

The problem is raising the £500m in the first place not running the club afterwards.

 

Correct. We would be run like a proper football club.

 

Problem now for many people is that because Chelsea, Utd and now City have all that money, they want someone (like Dubai) to come in and put millions and make us successful straight away.

 

That won't happen with ShareLFC for obvious reasons. We will have build the club again - marketing, merchandising, new stadium etc. We will need top notch people sitting upstairs as executives, people who can make right decisions at the right time, people who can lay the foundations now for the next 50 years.

 

Personally, I think ShareLFC is a brilliant thing. If it ever materialises, it will be the best possible thing to have happened to LFC. A club owned by fans - 100%. Fans who have real say on how the club should be run. We don't need to get stuck with someone like Parry - if the president/CEO is not doing the job properly, it is easy to get rid of them using an election.

 

Having said that, I can't ever see that happening. They will stuggle immensely to raise the money. Even if they achieve that, there is no guarantee that the two cunts will sell the club to them. Also, I'm not too sure about Rogan Taylor.

[Carra_is_legend]

Operating profit with a great season would be around 40m so yes they could give rafa 20m Pa transfer budget or 40m without building the new stadium however the debt on the new stadium would impact on transfers until it was completed

 

The thing is, it is the same for most of the clubs in this world. Look at Arsenal - they borrowed to build the stadium and are in huge debt. Until they get rid of that debt, they won't be able to spend big. But, when they do, they will be a force again - major major force. And they would have earned every single penny. Which will make their future successes all the more sweeter.

[Carra_is_legend]

who to get as Director of Football etc.QUOTE]

 

No thank you

 

Director of football was just an example mate. Point was that the decisions will still be made by just one man, who is supported by 100k fans.

[andyj]

just something that popped into my head while catching up on this thread but (correct me if im wrong) don't both of them have to sign for the loan and prove they have finances to secure it?. Now not so long ago gillette wanted to sell his shares to DIC and from what was said a fee was agreed untill he got back into bed with hicks. So my thought is perhaps gillette will say no to the loan (because he cant cover his half) and want to sell up sort of a payback to hicks for blocking everything the lastime round (sort of thing id do) now hicks couldn't find the money lastime round to buy gillette out so surely that would leave hicks up shit creek without a paddle and have to sell. I know its a long shot but perhaps thats 1 of the reasons its all sorta quiet a gentlemans agrement perhaps between dubai and gillette?? just a thought

 

to me it would explain why DIC/dubai holdings etc are still in the background

[The Acolyte]

ooh, I dont know, selling a Gerrard here or a Torres there would keep teh Yanks in business for another couple of seasons.

 

They do that and without replacement of equal quality they can kiss goodbye to the CL, a good section of support and a shed load of money!

[Roy Hobbs]

just something that popped into my head while catching up on this thread but (correct me if im wrong) don't both of them have to sign for the loan and prove they have finances to secure it?. Now not so long ago gillette wanted to sell his shares to DIC and from what was said a fee was agreed untill he got back into bed with hicks. So my thought is perhaps gillette will say no to the loan (because he cant cover his half) and want to sell up sort of a payback to hicks for blocking everything the lastime round (sort of thing id do) now hicks couldn't find the money lastime round to buy gillette out so surely that would leave hicks up shit creek without a paddle and have to sell. I know its a long shot but perhaps thats 1 of the reasons its all sorta quiet a gentlemans agrement perhaps between dubai and gillette?? just a thought

 

to me it would explain why DIC/dubai holdings etc are still in the background

 

 

TBH anything is possible. We may find out eventually, we probably will not. What is important is that for the 1st time in a while i actually think we might soon see the back of these 2 leeches. That is a good thing IMO.

 

 

I will never, ever forgive these two pricks for what they are doing, what they have done and to think they may make a 75M GBP profit each for publicly showing their incompetence makes me sick.

 

G&H please fuck off, soonish:whistle:

[Carra_is_legend]

just something that popped into my head while catching up on this thread but (correct me if im wrong) don't both of them have to sign for the loan and prove they have finances to secure it?. Now not so long ago gillette wanted to sell his shares to DIC and from what was said a fee was agreed untill he got back into bed with hicks. So my thought is perhaps gillette will say no to the loan (because he cant cover his half) and want to sell up sort of a payback to hicks for blocking everything the lastime round (sort of thing id do) now hicks couldn't find the money lastime round to buy gillette out so surely that would leave hicks up shit creek without a paddle and have to sell. I know its a long shot but perhaps thats 1 of the reasons its all sorta quiet a gentlemans agrement perhaps between dubai and gillette?? just a thought

 

to me it would explain why DIC/dubai holdings etc are still in the background

 

Gillett is not a gentleman. He is a cunt.

[Royal Family]

If they bought the club for £500m that wouldn't go into the yanks pockets as most of it would be to clear all debts.

 

The annual profit from an interest free club would be more than enough to give the manager £20m or so net every year for transfers and the club could easily raise new debt if it wanted to make a big splash in the market.

 

The stadium would be built on debt which would be paid for with the additional turnover.

 

The problem is raising the £500m in the first place not running the club afterwards.

 

But £20m or so isn't going to generate success, I'm afraid. Not in this day and age. Stoke City spent more than that this summer. I want the club to be run properly, and on sound business principles, but ultimately football clubs in the modern game are "loss leaders". That's the problem with Share Liverpool - the time for it was in the 80s, not now, and we can't pretend that the culture of the game is something it isn't. If we do want this, we might as well buy AFC Liverpool and build from the bottom (i bet we'd have more chance of building a new ground than G+H).

 

That's not to say there isn't merit in the idea, but it needs to be imaginative and not nostalgic. What I'd love to see is a modification: the Barcelona model of an elected chairman: candidates for that position then compete by making 'promises' and having to put together ambitious sponsorship and funding packages. They get voted in by the shareholders (ie the fans) on a one man one vote basis (regardless of size of shareholding). It's a way of generating income and keeping the club profitable, whilst ensuring accountability and democracy. And we wouldn't get asset-strippers like G+H or deviant clowns like Moores and Parry, but proper businessmen who also have a love for the club And if you get custodians who don't deliver on their promises, you vote them out after 5 years...

 

I don't think we should kid ourselves that Share Liverpoo lcan work in its present form: there's too much nostalgia and wishful thinking involved; but the idea of a democratic club can be built upon. Anf if it can happen anywhere, it will happen at Liverpool.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Royal Family

[silverlining]

 

in-bred clowns like Moores and Parry, but proper businessmen who also have a love for the club.

 

 

I would put money on you not being from Liverpool

[coop]

I would trust Gillett the same as i would Hicks.

 

Whilst its true from what im told he did agree a fee with Dubai for his shares he was also 'whoring' the shares around the Middle East trying to get a better deal.

 

Although Gillett may be the quieter of the two owners i also think he is the more devious.

[WaltonRed]

They both cannot and should not be trusted.

[Royal Family]

I would put money on you not being from Liverpool

 

Gladly edited to avoid misunderstanding. But, no, I'm not a member of the Moores (or Grantchester) families. Worth making the point though that the Moores family traditionally have closer links to Everton than Liverpool, and that this might explain much about David's decision to sell us down the river (or more accurately down the rodeo). Agent Moores - Your Work is Done!

[silverlining]

Gladly edited to avoid misunderstanding. But, no, I'm not a member of the Moores (or Grantchester) families. Worth making the point though that the Moores family traditionally have closer links to Everton than Liverpool, and that this might explain much about David's decision to sell us down the river (or more accurately down the rodeo). Agent Moores - Your Work is Done!

 

Oh, I see. You're a fucking divvy.

[andyj]

Gillett is not a gentleman. He is a cunt.

 

fair point blows that 1 out of the water then lol

[andyj]

Although Gillett may be the quieter of the two owners i also think he is the more devious.

 

yeah coop agreed thats why i think he will stab hicks in the back come january i think he is quite happy to get out but with hicks blocking any move to sell then he might be waiting till the time comes where they both have no choice (hopefully)