Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Strontium]

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/05/01/labour-s-manifesto-decision-is-another-cynical-act-of-constr

 

Quote

So now we know. Labour's manifesto for the European election will be just as garbled and meaningless as its existing policy. After weeks of debate, they are simply reiterating their plan to hold open the "option" of a public vote if they can't get their own deal or a general election.

 

This is evasive to the point of dishonesty. They're now aggravating the uncertainty of their conference policy by committing it to their election manifesto.

And things are no better on the Tory side. It's not even clear if they can produce a manifesto. With less than a month to go before the European elections, neither government nor opposition has a clear plan for their candidates to stand behind. Labour seems to be running two opposing campaigns while the Conservatives aren't competing at all.

Brexit has sucked out any content or meaning from the British electoral system. A vote for either of the main parties means putting your name to an utterly incoherent position. If you’re sufficiently invested in the European project to vote in its elections, but would nevertheless like to withdraw from the whole thing: vote Conservative. If you believe we should both be supporting an alternative Brexit and seeking to stop it: vote Labour.
 
Voters on all sides face a difficult decision, then: attempt to decipher the mixed signals coming from both parties, and risk your vote being completely misinterpreted, or lend your support to another party and risk splitting the vote.
 
This is the long sorry consequence of Brexit's fundamental meaninglessness. After all, it was the ambiguity of the original referendum question that got us into this nightmare. What kind of Brexit did people want? We never asked. Leave was all things to all people. So we spent three years tearing ourselves apart over it. And now we risk letting ambiguity embolden a Brexit that nobody voted for three years ago and nobody wants now.

[aRdja]

Even though I voted remain, if Labour want to win the next election, looking at the success of the recent Brexit party, Labour MPs should be more elusive when pressed about the second referendum, and make it the Tories’ problem.

[Bjornebye]

Nope. They should pledge either remain or a second referendum. 

 

I agree with democracy when people get to vote for what they fucking know not a pipe dream. 

[aRdja]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Nope. They should pledge either remain or a second referendum. 

 

I agree with democracy when people get to vote for what they fucking know not a pipe dream. 

The Brexit party’s landslide win confirmed the intention of the British public IMO. They received more votes than UKIP did in the previous election. 

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

The Brexit party’s landslide win confirmed the intention of the British public IMO. They received more votes than UKIP did in the previous election. 

No-one was arsed because what was he point in it? A general election is inevitable. Those with brains didn't bother. 

 

To be fair, same with the referendum in 2016 because no-one thought anyone was thick enough to vote for Brexit. Unfortunately we live on an island full of thick cunts. 

 

I can't cope. 

[Mook]

12 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

The Brexit party’s landslide win confirmed the intention of the British public IMO. They received more votes than UKIP did in the previous election. 

It confirmed fuck all. The Lib Dems, Greens & SNP all got a shit load of votes too.

 

Labour should stop dicking about, pick a side (preferably a second referendum) & go for the throat. Labour's problem here is that no-one has a fucking clue what they want to do.

[Strontium]

15 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

The Brexit party’s landslide win confirmed the intention of the British public IMO. They received more votes than UKIP did in the previous election. 

 

Stop claiming that 30% is a landslide. It isn't. It's only 4% more than UKIP got in 2014 when there was no referendum result to "respect".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Labour should stop dicking about, pick a side 

That's exactly what the Tories want - Labour to tell half the electorate to Fuck Off, deepen the national political divide even further and usher in the next Conservative Government. 

 

How about a Labour Party committed to fighting for all working class people, regardless of how they voted in the Tories' referendum 3 years ago?

[Bjornebye]

14 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Stop claiming that 30% is a landslide. It isn't. It's only 4% more than UKIP got in 2014 when there was no referendum result to "respect".

 

 

[Moo]

I don't think that stating an order of preference for four possible outcomes is in any way unclear, in fact you could argue that nailing your colours to only one mast is more unclear because, let's say, you don't get what you want (because most won't get what they want), what's your preference then and what will you do to help achieve that? 

 

Personally I wish Labour would come out in favour of revocation of Article 50, but my personal preference being at odds with Labour's position doesn't make that position any less clear. 

[magicrat]

58 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Even though I voted remain, if Labour want to win the next election, looking at the success of the recent Brexit party, Labour MPs should be more elusive when pressed about the second referendum, and make it the Tories’ problem.

Too late for that . If they want to win the next GE they need to scupper Brexit which will destroy the Tories 

[Moo]

3 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Too late for that . If they want to win the next GE they need to scupper Brexit which will destroy the Tories 

They could destroy themselves in the process.  

I'd imagine they're hoping to scupper a damaging "Tory Brexit" (which every single person who voted to leave voted for seeing as though they were the party with the hand on the reins) without having to come out and say as much, and hoping enough people notice that they might actually get some credit for it. 

Alas we're already so far down the rabbit hole I fear there's little chance of climbing back out. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Moo said:

I don't think that stating an order of preference for four possible outcomes is in any way unclear, in fact you could argue that nailing your colours to only one mast is more unclear because, let's say, you don't get what you want (because most won't get what they want), what's your preference then and what will you do to help achieve that? 

 

Personally I wish Labour would come out in favour of revocation of Article 50, but my personal preference being at odds with Labour's position doesn't make that position any less clear. 

A lot of pundits are deliberately misrepresenting Labour’s position - and pretending that they don't understand it - for their own ends. It reminds me of football pundits claiming that the rules around handball or offside are impenetrably arcane, when the truth is that they are just trying to fabricate some controversy to justify their own jobs.

[Moo]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

A lot of pundits are deliberately misrepresenting Labour’s position - and pretending that they don't understand it - for their own ends. It reminds me of football pundits claiming that the rules around handball or offside are impenetrably arcane, when the truth is that they are just trying to fabricate some controversy to justify their own jobs.

I think they call that "post truth" these days, there's a lot of it about. 

[Mook]

9 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

That's exactly what the Tories want - Labour to tell half the electorate to Fuck Off, deepen the national political divide even further and usher in the next Conservative Government. 

 

How about a Labour Party committed to fighting for all working class people, regardless of how they voted in the Tories' referendum 3 years ago?

Well where I live Labour have been completely wiped out, they can't fight for all working class people but they could fight for what's best for them instead. Loads of SNP, Green, Lib Dem & floating remain voters would jump on board too in my opinion.

 

'Half the electorate' being leave is a bit of a jump.

 

The way it stands, the tories will get back in, England is a tory country through & through now.

[sir roger]

Boris getting straight to what the country needs by promising to put the higher tax bracket up to £80k.

 

Rico has played the long game very well here.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

52 minutes ago, Mook said:

Well where I live Labour have been completely wiped out, they can't fight for all working class people but they could fight for what's best for them instead. Loads of SNP, Green, Lib Dem & floating remain voters would jump on board too in my opinion.

 

'Half the electorate' being leave is a bit of a jump.

 

The way it stands, the tories will get back in, England is a tory country through & through now.

The Leave vote and the Remain vote is still pretty much neck and neck. We can't just wish that fact away.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Mook said:

 

The way it stands, the tories will get back in, England is a tory country through & through now.

At the last General Election, the Tories got 45.4% of the vote in England; Labour got 41.9%.

 

We are not as irredeemably Tory as you might think.

[Scooby Dudek]

Dominic Raab is a Twat.

[cloggypop]

If the Tory cunts had been doing mushies instead of coke we wouldn't be in this mess. 

[Mudface]

43 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

At the last General Election, the Tories got 45.4% of the vote in England; Labour got 41.9%.

 

We are not as irredeemably Tory as you might think.

Yep- the reason the Tories won a majority in 2015 and most seats in 2017 is due to the collapse in Labour's Scottish vote. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

2 hours ago, sir roger said:

Boris getting straight to what the country needs by promising to put the higher tax bracket up to £80k.

 

Rico has played the long game very well here.

How much are politicians on. As in wages not all the other side jobs. Doesn't Boris need mps support before it can go to the members. Him being PM would be a new low even for this country.

[Mook]

56 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

At the last General Election, the Tories got 45.4% of the vote in England; Labour got 41.9%.

 

We are not as irredeemably Tory as you might think.

You have to bear in mind that this is by far the most inept tory government in living memory & Labour are still struggling to lay a glove on them.

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, Mook said:

You have to bear in mind that this is by far the most inept tory government in living memory & Labour are still struggling to lay a glove on them.

A hung parliament counts as a glove for me, Clive. 

[Mook]

24 minutes ago, TK421 said:

A hung parliament counts as a glove for me, Clive. 

I said they were struggling to lay a glove, not that they hadn't.

 

Let's be honest, a half decent opposition would've fucked this tory shambles into next century.