Southampton at Home match thread

[SpeedyG]

Was 4231 today.

 

Has been all season.  Bring back 4231 is how the subconscious communicates "Bring back Rafa" BTW.

[SpeedyG]

Didn't mean to rep you, thought that might have been the quote button on the mobile version. That said I see you what your saying but for me it seems as though it's a bit illogical. Lucas done his job well, especially in the first half, while the others didn't but it's still Lucas' fault? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

While I think Gerrard and Lucas has worked well at times, I'd prefer to start Gerrard more advanced, and put Henderson next to Lucas. Gerrard doesn't have the legs anymore to go box to box for the full 90 but he doesn't need them to be a playmaker from an advanced role and chip in with a few goals. I don't doubt Gerrard's ability to tame himself and be more disciplined and patient in the deeper role as he's shown he can do it when we're attacking well as a unit. The problem arises when things aren't going our way and he starts trying too hard to make an attacking impact from that position. That isn't wholly bad but given his age and our second half woes he's usually knackered by the time it starts happening so it comes less in the form of the driving runs with the ball of his youth and more from long balls to players that often times either don't get to them or can't control them if they do. For these reasons he should be starting in a free role behind the attack, especially given Coutinho's absence*.

 

I also think that, no matter anyone's personal opinion on Lucas the sad truth of the matter is that we need to start searching for a player capable of taking Gerrard's place over the next 3 years, even if we replace Lucas. Maybe that Rossiter at the academy is the second coming but I've not seen more than a few YouTube clips of him and I've not seen anyone who can pay attention to the academy players make the comparison.

 

* - You can also argue that Coutinho is the essential cog that makes a Gerrard and Lucas partnership capable of working. He's smart, has the vision, pace, and ability to dribble or pass through the opposition and also provides an outlet for both of them to go play it forward. Perhaps Suarez can offer the same for now and we don't need to have this conversation for a while.

 

Football fandom isn't about logic.

[Newport]

The most disappointing part of the game was the last ten minutes. They attacked us more than we did and there never was any proper final push to get a goal.

 

As for Sterling there isn't really the physical bit but the technical bit on simple things as passing, shooting and running with the ball. He's great when he gets the space, but when he's under pressure he struggles quite much. Although the one time he actually did something great Henderson fucked it up by running too far into the six yard box instead of giving Sterling the better angle to pass rather than passing through a defender and the keeper who could easily block the attempt.

 

I don't get the point about jumping on the Aspas' back already now one month into the season. Some players adapt quickly and some don't, that's just the way it is. People being too critical this early will do him no good.

[TheHowieLama]

Has been all season.  Bring back 4231 is how the subconscious communicates "Bring back Rafa" BTW.

 

"nudge..."

[Saintslfc13]

Football fandom isn't about logic.

Agreed.

 

You and me however were discussing the merits of certain players and team selection which I believe logic should play a part in conclusions about.

[RedRazor]

Elephant in the room?

 

The elephant was on the pitch once again. Another team made up of journeyman pros who had a plan, self-belief and just worked harder than us. Again.

 

This is about preparation.

 

Didn't see a single Southampton player who jumped to the top of my 'must buy' list so how else do we explain it? They weren't lucky - they deserved what they got.

 

As ever I am torn between loyalty and logic in respect of Aspas. I don't want to slag the lad off because he is ours but I am struggling to see what part of his game is anywhere near good enough for the first team. I don't see him doing anything that Morgan or Ibe couldn't do equally as well (and I don't think they are ready for the first team either)

 

Thank God for the Emperor Ming between the sticks. Thought Sturridge and Moses had reasonable games, Lucas and Toure were OK and everyone else was just poor. 

 

What a way to burst a bubble.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Was 4231 today.

Yes H but with centre halves at fullback, when we get Johnson, Enrique, Kelly and Cissoko fit  ( all out today ) two holding midfielders and Suarez Sturridge and Coutinho when fit or Moses for now, decent set up.

[GJM]

Feeling a bit more rational about the game today, although still hugely disappointed.

 

It’s fair to say that Rodgers was in a difficult situation this weekend due to the injuries/suspensions that denied him starting places for Johnson, Enrique, Allen, Suarez, Coutinho, Kelly and Cissokho, and has him having to cope with a less than 100% fit Agger and Sturridge. We can complain about our squad being thin but, with that many quality players unavailable or getting by at less than full-power, it’s perhaps not surprising that we struggled yesterday.

 

That said, and despite the lack of fit full-backs, we did have other options yesterday, besides playing with 4 CBs. Given that we are abundant in the CB department, yesterday may have been a good time to go with the 3-5-2 that Rodgers has dabbled with from time to time. Sakho, Toure and Skrtel in the middle, with Henderson and perhaps Sterling giving width down the flanks, may have gotten us a bit more pressure and energy in the parts of the pitch where it was badly needed and sadly lacking. Hindsight, as ever, is perfect, but Rodgers and the coaching team must have seen after 20mins yesterday that the 11 he had set out with were struggling. Perhaps he just thought that he would just get by, and hope that a goal came from somewhere. We were showing some signs of encouragement before the break and the penalty we were denied would have probably seen us close up and play like we have in the second half of most of our recent games. 

 

Unfortunately, Southampton sensed blood in the water and came out 2^nd half with even greater confidence. Tactically, they were spot on, but we played to their strengths and to our own weaknesses.

 

Gerrard has had a couple of quiet games this week, both of which come after an intense period where he was traveling and played two full 90 minutes of international football. I think that, at 33, whilst he still has a decent 2-3 years left at this level, he is perhaps struggling a little to cope with the demands of international and league football.  The absence of Allen meant that we could not afford to rest him yesterday or last week at Swansea – I think giving him a break in one of those games would have been beneficial. Nobody is talking much about Allen just now, and I know he is not everybody’s favorite, but I think that we have missed his energy and pressing of opponents in our last two games. We need him back soon.

 

Having Suarez back will certainly help out in the final third – Aspas again did nothing yesterday to silence his growing band of doubters – but it looks like we are going to have a month or so with a few square pegs in round holes. I like Rodgers’ attitude – no point complaining, we just have to get on with and work with what we have – but he is going to need find some better solutions than what we saw yesterday if our season is not to start slipping away from us before November. 

[Gnasher]

Elephant or Brazilian turtle?

Both

[Gnasher]

 

Nice to see a few posters having a pop at joe Allen in this and the leadership thread, even not playing dosnt seem to spare him criticism.

 

Allens overlooked ability to read the game, trap the ball and pass the ball simply and effectively to one of his own team mates is lacking from our midfield.

 

Arsenal and wenger kept faith with arron ramsey after two so so seasons, i hope Rodgers doesn't bow down to fan pressure and bottle it with Allen. After the way the midfield has failed to function over the last two games, Allen would be the first name on my team sheet, if only because he hates giving the fucking ball away.

[KopOut]

Easily explained. Lucas like Alonso, Lampard, Scholes, Hargreaves, etc isn't good enough to form a solid, balanced central midfield partnership with Gerrard. He does what he's good at, but that's not enough to make the partnership successful.

 

Rodgers really needs to do something about

this.

Lucas holds well, and feeds up field well.

We were without Coutinho who is the creative attacking component while Suarez is injured, becaus, for whtever reason, Stevie wont play his best role. I dont believe for one minute, that Gerrard feels he needs to babysit Lucas.

 

I'm wondering whether playing S.G. deep ,is Rogers way of 'preserving' him.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Lucas holds well, and feeds up field well.

We were without Coutinho who is the creative attacking component while Suarez is injured, becaus, for whtever reason, Stevie wont play his best role. I dont believe for one minute, that Gerrard feels he needs to babysit Lucas.

 

I'm wondering whether playing S.G. deep ,is Rogers way of 'preserving' him.

He's pickling him

[Paco]

a few observations:

 

1. we've 10 points from a possible 15 without our best player and our 2nd best player for the last game and a half. we've generally played poorly in all these games and it's only a matter of time before we stop winning ugly and just drop points ugly.

 

2. we could easily have 3 points at this stage - stoke could have drew, villa could have drew, united could have drew. we deserved very little from the 2nd half against swansea and could easily have lost and yesterday I only listened to it on the radio but I didn't like the starting line up and the longer it went on the less likely we were to score but it didn't sound like one of those games where we created lots of chances and they got 1. we created fuck all and they had plenty of chances to make it safe.

 

3. no matter how ordinary Glen Johnson has looked this season, we've missed him the last 2 games. we lack serious balance without natural full backs.

 

4. sakho - play him centre back and make the big decision of dropping whoever is to be dropped even if it's agger. Rodgers must've had a plan when he signed him and I doubt it was left back when he also bought cissokho. I believe enrique was carrying a knock yesterday but then he came on so couldn't have been that bad. Too soundbites out of anfield have set alarm bells ringing - Ayre saying Sakho was a marquee signing? Just because we paid a lot of money for him doesn't make him a marquee signing. The other was rodgers saying that him and ilori sort out our centre back situation for the next 10 years. Last time I heard something like that was when houllier signed dudek and kirkland and made a similar prediction about our keeper situation.

 

5. I hope aspas will start to look a player when suarez is on the pitch

[Phoenix]

For all of our good start. Martinez and the BS are one point behind us. 

 

Time to let that go and concentrate on how we are playing.

[stringvest]

Playing out from the back with 4 CBs, none of whom would be mistaken for a ball-playing deep-lying midfielder, was plainly not going to end well.  Sterling needs taking out of matchdays a while, and someone needs to get into his head.  

 

Bad team selection and setup by Rodgers yesterday, no question about it.  Hamstrung by injuries is not an excuse for the lack of cohesion and will displayed yesterday.  Gerrard was poor by is own standards, Lucas was poor even by his, and Henderson was peripheral.  Someone mentioned earlier that his natural game seems to be to react to events rather than trying to influence them, and I think that this is right, and that to me it betrays a lack of confidence in his own ability to impose himself.  Reacting to events might on some occasions be enough to justify inclusion in the team, but not when we're playing at home to Southampton.  No-one played well yesterday, and we looked less than a sum of the individual parts.  Fitness continues to be a concern - in fact the concern is actually growing.    

 

Plenty for Rodgers to work on this week.  Gerrard needs a kick up the arse; he needs to start demonstrating some leadership, and quickly. 

[Section_31]

Playing out from the back with 4 CBs, none of whom would be mistaken for a ball-playing deep-lying midfielder, was plainly not going to end well.  Sterling needs taking out of matchdays a while, and someone needs to get into his head.  

 

Bad team selection and setup by Rodgers yesterday, no question about it.  Hamstrung by injuries is not an excuse for the lack of cohesion and will displayed yesterday.  Gerrard was poor by is own standards, Lucas was poor even by his, and Henderson was peripheral.  Someone mentioned earlier that his natural game seems to be to react to events rather than trying to influence them, and I think that this is right, and that to me it betrays a lack of confidence in his own ability to impose himself.  Reacting to events might on some occasions be enough to justify inclusion in the team, but not when we're playing at home to Southampton.  No-one played well yesterday, and we looked less than a sum of the individual parts.  Fitness continues to be a concern - in fact the concern is actually growing.    

 

Plenty for Rodgers to work on this week.  Gerrard needs a kick up the arse; he needs to start demonstrating some leadership, and quickly. 

 

Agree with all that.

 

We really needed an injection of top class talent in the summer and I don't think we got it. We've got a lot of players now who seem decent and can do a job, but unless they're exceptionally well organised they'll come unstuck regularly, top class players ooze class, ability and tactical awareness because it comes natural to them, others have to work 100% to achieve any of that, and they just can't humanly keep it up. The season will probably unfold as it did last year, we'll win a few games, a couple by a canter, but them crash badly from time to time. Inconsistency is what a middling squad will always get you.

[Saintslfc13]

Playing out from the back with 4 CBs, none of whom would be mistaken for a ball-playing deep-lying midfielder, was plainly not going to end well.  Sterling needs taking out of matchdays a while, and someone needs to get into his head.  

 

Bad team selection and setup by Rodgers yesterday, no question about it.  Hamstrung by injuries is not an excuse for the lack of cohesion and will displayed yesterday.  Gerrard was poor by is own standards, Lucas was poor even by his, and Henderson was peripheral.  Someone mentioned earlier that his natural game seems to be to react to events rather than trying to influence them, and I think that this is right, and that to me it betrays a lack of confidence in his own ability to impose himself.  Reacting to events might on some occasions be enough to justify inclusion in the team, but not when we're playing at home to Southampton.  No-one played well yesterday, and we looked less than a sum of the individual parts.  Fitness continues to be a concern - in fact the concern is actually growing.    

 

Plenty for Rodgers to work on this week.  Gerrard needs a kick up the arse; he needs to start demonstrating some leadership, and quickly.

 

I think that's a pretty fair assessment. Your point about Henderson is, for me anyway, why he should be playing deep with Gerrard starting just behind the attack. Maybe the thinking is that his confidence will grow if deployed further forward but his industry and reactions are quite good so why not play him where they are more useful? He's also got the legs and ability to make driving runs from deep with the ball (though the ability is inconsistent at this point) and runs into the box from deep without it. With Coutinho available he's the best player we have for either behind the attack and it's where he can have the most influence on a game but with him out it makes little sense not to play Gerrard there.

 

Someone made the point about Gerrard possibly being preserved by playing deep and I hope that's not Rodgers idea because to me it takes far more mobility and energy to be counted on in defense and expected to join the attack whereas in the free role Gerrard could still track back but not have to be relied on and therefore expend more energy setting up and scoring goals.

[Gym Beglin]

http://lfcstats.co.uk/1314henderson.html

 

Have a look at Henderson vs Gerrard, both have played all 90 mins of each league game s far.

[stringvest]

Agree with all that.

 

We really needed an injection of top class talent in the summer and I don't think we got it. We've got a lot of players now who seem decent and can do a job, but unless they're exceptionally well organised they'll come unstuck regularly, top class players ooze class, ability and tactical awareness because it comes natural to them, others have to work 100% to achieve any of that, and they just can't humanly keep it up. The season will probably unfold as it did last year, we'll win a few games, a couple by a canter, but them crash badly from time to time. Inconsistency is what a middling squad will always get you.

Yep, spot on Mark.  'Middling' players have pervaded our team for a couple of decades.  Often this has been down to funds, but just as often it has been down to rank bad form in the transfer market.  Every yarddog has his day, but the shitter the player, the rarer those days are.  We've seen too many of them in the last 10 years.  They get in the team, and they stay in the team.  Rodgers is a little hamstrung by injury at the omen, but its exacerbated by the poor decisions in the transfer market; both in the actual players he's brought in, and the priority he gave to certain roles over others.  

[Evelyn Tentions]

” A Football Team Is Like A Piano. You Need Eight Men To Carry It And Three Who Can Play The Damn Thing ” - Bill Shankly

 

We got the movers, but no-one's getting past learning chopsticks at the moment.

Someone please tell Ayre that an Ozil is a marquee signing, not (good as he is) a Sakho

[xerxes]

The result was a disappointment, but Pochttino is a formidable adversary with his experience in Argentina, France and Spain ( as was laudup in the Swansea game).

 

The four centre backs experiment was a mistake, but King Brenny is still learning, and he won't repeat that mistake.

 

Overall he continues to do well and I am quietly confident for the Mancs game.

[magicrat]

The result was a disappointment, but Pochttino is a formidable adversary with his experience in Argentina, France and Spain ( as was laudup in the Swansea game).

 

The four centre backs experiment was a mistake, but King Brenny is still learning, and he won't repeat that mistake.

 

Overall he continues to do well and I am quietly confident for the Mancs game.

So its OK for "King Brenny" to make schoolboy errors in his team selection. Christ if every armchair critic could see that playing 4 centre backs was ridiculous why cant he? Even with the injuries I cant imagine what his thinking was ,He had his honeymoon last year with some apalling decsions. Our exit from the FA cup still pisses me off. I was really encouraged that he had started the season so well. He always talks a good game but it was pleasing to see him getting the balance right and then we get a fiasco like Southampton. I have no doubt he could have selected a team that would have won that game from the players available . I dont think any serious supporters want rid of Rodgers but he just has to pick his best team . Thats not about learning its common fucking sense.

[TheHowieLama]

I am quietly confident

 

Not quiet enough it appears.

[xerxes]

 I dont think any serious supporters want rid of Rodgers but he just has to pick his best team . Thats not about learning its common fucking sense.

I think he went with experience and hoped that professional defenders could play in more than one position. He was wrong.

 

What I don't understand is that he currently has some slack, a good first season and an excellent start to his second. He can afford  to  give the likes of Wisdom some games as an investment in the future.

[Code]

I think he went with experience and hoped that professional defenders could play in more than one position. He was wrong.

 

What I don't understand is that he currently has some slack, a good first season and an excellent start to his second. He can afford  to  give the likes of Wisdom some games as an investment in the future.

 

What first season was that an where was it?