Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[mattyq]

They don't so much business in Kirkby.

 

Lucky for you

They're cunts

[Strontium]

Found this from the ONS on gas/elec prices going back to 1981 (see table on p17). It is baselined in 2005 so I am not sure how to interpret the numbers. Any volunteers?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/65940/7341-quarterly-energy-prices-december-2012.pdf

 

 

Electricity is about 3 and a half times more expensive in real terms in 2012 than in 1981, and gas about 5 and a half times more expensive.

 

It would be a leap to assume that that is because of privatisation, of course - not least because the price of those things was growing before any utility was privatised.

[Section_31]

SD's favourite film character is Dick Jones, DICK JONES!

[Strontium]

Dick Jones was a fucking amateur.

[Gnasher]

Electricity is about 3 and a half times more expensive in real terms in 2012 than in 1981, and gas about 5 and a half times more expensive.

 

It would be a leap to assume that that is because of privatisation, of course - not least because the price of those things was growing before any utility was privatised.

 

You've got to be either fucking brain dead or be in some kind of weird denial if you can't see that the privatised utility company's are ripping the british public right off.

 

The other issue with privatisation is that profits go straight into certain people's pockets, otherwise the profits british company's make would have been the country's profits, our profits, everyones, instead of a few very lucky individuals, cheers maggie, it's no wonder the country's fucking skint.

[Spy Bee]

It's not a recession, it's a robbery!

[dennis tooth]

SD having his ideology and 'free market' wankery shown up as a fraud and resorts to blanket denial.

[dennis tooth]

SD having his ideology and 'free market' wankery shown up as a fraud and resorts to blanket denial.

[Strontium]

You've got to be either fucking brain dead or be in some kind of weird denial if you can't see that the privatised utility company's are ripping the british public right off.

 

 

I'm sure you'll be presenting the evidence for this, as anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

 

The other issue with privatisation is that profits go straight into certain people's pockets, otherwise the profits british company's make would have been the country's profits, our profits, everyones, instead of a few very lucky individuals, cheers maggie, it's no wonder the country's fucking skint.

 

 

There were no profits before privatisation, the utilities were loss-making and heavily subsidised.

 

I also don't think you know the first thing about where the profit is going.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

I'm sure you'll be presenting the evidence for this' date=' as anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

 

There were no profits before privatisation, the utilities were loss-making and heavily subsidised.

 

I also don't think you know the first thing about where the profit is going.[/quote']

 

Its pretty obvious the profits are going into shareholders pockets. You also forget that when we produced our own energy we were able to sell it to other countries for a tidy profit and boost treasury funds. Now energy is bought from overseas and the cost is passed on to the customers,

[dennis tooth]

I'm sure you'll be presenting the evidence for this, as anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

 

 

 

 

There were no profits before privatisation, the utilities were loss-making and heavily subsidised.

 

I also don't think you know the first thing about where the profit is going.

 

There was massive profits on a massive scale never seen since the fuck u talkin about?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[RedRazor]

Electricity is about 3 and a half times more expensive in real terms in 2012 than in 1981, and gas about 5 and a half times more expensive.

 

It would be a leap to assume that that is because of privatisation, of course - not least because the price of those things was growing before any utility was privatised.

 

I'm not sure you are reading the table correctly SD. I think it shows that electricity prices are about the same relative to RPI (the right hand column) while gas prices are approximately 75% higher than they were in 1981 relative to RPI. They seemed to stabilise and then fall between 1991 and 2004 relative to RPI. But then kappow from 2004 onwards - they have just rocketed year on year.

 

However, not comfortable that I am reading the table correctly and happy to consider any alternative interpretations.

[Stu Monty]

None specifically, it was a general point about how nationalisation doesn't result in the claimed increase in freedoms.

 

You're right to be concerned about what happens elsewhere, but this topic is about UK politics, and especially the UK government and it's austerity measures.

 

Absolutely. People have a right to know what their money is being spent on. I just wish the debate was framed a little more constructively than "State = good, private = bad".

 

I claimed that Chicago School free-market enforcement (involving, partly, the massive sale of public assets into private hands) almost always goes hand in hand with harsher state clampdown. If you'd like to dispute that claim then go right ahead. I think you'd struggle.

 

The thread being about UK cuts doesn't mean that reference to other austerity measures and privatisations in other countries are not relevant points in the discussion. The UK is not an insulated environment and is just one small part of the globalised marketplace. When you've got foreign agents buying up UK assets (and offshoring un-taxed profits that are in essence cuts on quality) then it's a world-wide debate.

 

You definitely push for constructive debate though, that's why you constantly call Labour far-left and put Nazi tags on Ed Miliband threads. Because it's so constructive.

[Vincent Vega]

The money that the tories made selling off the utility companies for a relative song, was spent bribing the British public with tax cuts that helped keep the fuckers in office for 18 years. Meanwhile we now get screwed with high cost prices from companies usually based abroad that act like cartels, it was a massive con. We don't have copetition and choice in these markets, it's simply one rip off company or another rip off company, and the regulators completly fail to do what they should and represent the publics best interests. I want a labour party that will promise to take water, electricity and gas back into public ownership, but I'm sure it will never happen.

[Gnasher]

I'm sure you'll be presenting the evidence for this, as anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

 

 

 

 

There were no profits before privatisation, the utilities were loss-making and heavily subsidised.

 

I also don't think you know the first thing about where the profit is going.

 

SD, utility bills have rocketed since privatisation, train travel is amongst the most expensive in the western world. Being an athiest its not often i get religious feelings but you asking me for proof like some in denial doubting thomas makes me feel like Jesus without the holes in his fucking hands, so thanks for that

 

Profits of privatised company's go to the shareholders.

 

The plus side of keeping assets out of private hands is not about profits, (and your suggestion that british gas was not making money is ludicrous) its about investing any surplus money back, jobs, infer structure to bring future costs down whilst ensuring the nations energy/rail gas supply.

[dennis tooth]

Im tired of all this talk, lets have a kwiz, everyone loves a kwiz!!

 

Which student fee enabling politician said the following without smirking?:

 

"Their change of heart is dishonest, it's hypocritical," ***** said, "It's not the behaviour of a party serious about government."

 

Nick Clegg accuses Labour of dishonesty over EU budget vote | Politics | The Guardian

[Gnasher]

Im tired of all this talk, lets have a kwiz, everyone loves a kwiz!!

 

Which student fee enabling politician said the following without smirking?:

 

"Their change of heart is dishonest, it's hypocritical," ***** said, "It's not the behaviour of a party serious about government."

 

Nick Clegg accuses Labour of dishonesty over EU budget vote | Politics | The Guardian

 

Clegg is imo the most odious little prick britains ever known, a snake oil salesman of a politician who if there was any justice would be thrown down a deep dark well and then forced to repeat all his hypocritical lies in return for bread and water.

[RedRazor]

There was massive profits on a massive scale never seen since the fuck u talkin about?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

I'm not sure you are completely right on this one. The nationalised utility companies were not trying to make a profit from the domestic retail market. They had to cover their costs and generate sufficent extra to cover their own future investment needs. Had they made excessive profits from this market it would have been seen as nothing more than an indirect tax.

 

For this reason trying to compare British Gas before and after privatisation is like comparing apples with pears.

 

The sale of any excess production from the North Sea gas fields would have generated massive amounts of revenue for the Government but I don't believe this came under the old British Gas Corporation umbrella.

 

The other point to remember is that huge numbers of the general public bought the shares in British Gas as did the pension companies where a lot of everyday people have been saving. It isn't just about fat cat city shareholders.

[dennis tooth]

I'm not sure you are completely right on this one. The nationalised utility companies were not trying to make a profit from the domestic retail market. They had to cover their costs and generate sufficent extra to cover their own future investment needs. Had they made excessive profits from this market it would have been seen as nothing more than an indirect tax.

 

For this reason trying to compare British Gas before and after privatisation is like comparing apples with pears.

 

The sale of any excess production from the North Sea gas fields would have generated massive amounts of revenue for the Government but I don't believe this came under the old British Gas Corporation umbrella.

 

The other point to remember is that huge numbers of the general public bought the shares in British Gas as did the pension companies where a lot of everyday people have been saving. It isn't just about fat cat city shareholders.

 

Oh, you mean profit as in money, Im talking about the public profit.

[Strontium]

I'm not sure you are reading the table correctly SD. I think it shows that electricity prices are about the same relative to RPI (the right hand column) while gas prices are approximately 75% higher than they were in 1981 relative to RPI. They seemed to stabilise and then fall between 1991 and 2004 relative to RPI. But then kappow from 2004 onwards - they have just rocketed year on year.

 

However, not comfortable that I am reading the table correctly and happy to consider any alternative interpretations.

 

 

No, I think you're right. I just assumed these were adjusted figures, but they aren't.

 

So the reality of the matter is that gas and electricity prices aren't that much higher now than they were 30 years ago, at least in relative terms, which makes a whole lot more sense. When you consider that global energy demand has pretty much doubled in that time period, that's even more remarkable.

 

I claimed that Chicago School free-market enforcement (involving, partly, the massive sale of public assets into private hands) almost always goes hand in hand with harsher state clampdown. If you'd like to dispute that claim then go right ahead. I think you'd struggle.

 

 

I don't know what the Chicago School has to do with privatisation in the UK, but I'd welcome examples of these clampdowns.

 

The thread being about UK cuts doesn't mean that reference to other austerity measures and privatisations in other countries are not relevant points in the discussion. The UK is not an insulated environment and is just one small part of the globalised marketplace. When you've got foreign agents buying up UK assets (and offshoring un-taxed profits that are in essence cuts on quality) then it's a world-wide debate.

 

 

Okay, well I am still not convinced of the value of invoking Blackwater whenever a pension fund buys a 7% stake in Severn Trent Water or whatever.

 

You definitely push for constructive debate though, that's why you constantly call Labour far-left and put Nazi tags on Ed Miliband threads. Because it's so constructive.

 

 

I can't even recall the last time I called Labour far left. And picking at me for jokey tags on an Ed Miliband thread is just straw-clutching.

 

If you're talking about constructive debate, maybe you stop protecting the people responsible for all the horrible tags aimed at me on this thread - or am I the only person whose tags are allowed to be outed? One rule for me and another for everyone else, yeah?

[Stu Monty]

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Edited July 29, 2013 by Stu Monty
Dupe

[Stu Monty]

No, I think you're right. I just assumed these were adjusted figures, but they aren't.

 

So the reality of the matter is that gas and electricity prices aren't that much higher now than they were 30 years ago, at least in relative terms, which makes a whole lot more sense. When you consider that global energy demand has pretty much doubled in that time period, that's even more remarkable.

 

I don't know what the Chicago School has to do with privatisation in the UK, but I'd welcome examples of these clampdowns.

 

Okay, well I am still not convinced of the value of invoking Blackwater whenever a pension fund buys a 7% stake in Severn Trent Water or whatever.

 

I can't even recall the last time I called Labour far left. And picking at me for jokey tags on an Ed Miliband thread is just straw-clutching.

 

If you're talking about constructive debate, maybe you stop protecting the people responsible for all the horrible tags aimed at me on this thread - or am I the only person whose tags are allowed to be outed? One rule for me and another for everyone else, yeah?

 

Once again "I don't know about x, even though all the information is readily available to me, but I'd love to be spoonfed knowledge".

 

It doesn't matter that you can't recall doing it, you do it enough and it's retarded. Clearly.

 

Stop playing the victim again. Any time you want to know who has tagged something on a thread I'm on I'll tell you. You were "outed" because it is something that annoys me, so I recalled it. If you don't want to be outed then don't type tags you give a shit about people outing you for, common sense isn't it? Unless you think tags are some special snide-benefit of the site?

 

I mentioned Blackwater on a day some Blackwater news was announced, in relation to very little else other than an aside, on a fucking massive sprawling thread that covers privatisation quite heavily. Hardly insane.

[Gnasher]

A few independent figures...

 

People living in fuel poverty 2023.. 6 mil . This is estimated to rise to 9 mil by 2016

 

 

Percentage of british population behind/in debt to energy firms.. 20%

 

 

 

Average extra cost for fuel to poor people with meters installed.. £300 per anum

 

 

Number of estimated deaths attributed to fuel poverty 2011/12.. 75000

 

 

British gas profits for its energy supply arm this year..606mil... centrica profits 2011/12 2.7 billion.

[lifetime fan]

No problems with private companies offering an unsafe 111 service is there.

 

Oh wait.

[Strontium]

Once again "I don't know about x, even though all the information is readily available to me, but I'd love to be spoonfed knowledge".

 

It doesn't matter that you can't recall doing it, you do it enough and it's retarded. Clearly.

 

 

I just like to know what you're talking about, specifically. I can't be expected to go trawling round the internet to look for stuff. Some guidance and direction, at least, would be appreciated.

 

Stop playing the victim again. Any time you want to know who has tagged something on a thread I'm on I'll tell you. You were "outed" because it is something that annoys me, so I recalled it. If you don't want to be outed then don't type tags you give a shit about people outing you for, common sense isn't it? Unless you think tags are some special snide-benefit of the site?

 

 

I don't care about people knowing that I tagged the Ed Miliband thread with "national socialism". He was talking about nationalism, and he's a socialist, so it was funny. He's obviously not a Nazi, the Nazis tried to murder his parents. You can't have expected me not to know that.

 

Now that you mention it, in this new era of openness, I'd be quite interested in knowing who is responsible for the following:

 

hope sd loses his job

sd=maggie rimmer

strontium 'tory' dog

strontium dog snatcher

strontium milk snatcher

strontium poodle

strontium thatcher

strontium thatcherite