PODCAST: Liverpool 3 Nottingham Forest 2 - Match Reaction

[Mathewbet1]

The more I think about it the more Caicedo would be perfect for us. If we could get 20-30 mil for Fab we should take it, if his decline continues then he will be worthless at the end of next season. He has been great for us but his legs have gone. I would also consider Rice, he could be a long term Henderson replacement. I would also like a couple of leftfield signings also, what about Madison or Barella? I would also like to see Gapko behind Darwin, which could be possible for some home games with trent making the extra midfielder, we have so many class forwards we should play to our strengths.

[JohnnyH]

I just can't agree with the dismissal of Fabinho as a player on the pod, particularly by Paul.  He was terrible for quite a while; that goes without saying.  But over the last 6-8 weeks in an underperforming team he has performed well (no one has performed excellently as our play has been too fragmented for that).  Recently Fabinho has not been one of the many issues we've had with players performing far worse than him.  To decide that over 5 years that the 2/3 of a season of poor play is the norm for him, and not the 5 years of excellent/good play from a still only 29 year old just seems odd to me.  

 

I think there's zero chance Klopp sells him because I'd be willing to bet Klopp thinks the same as me and that a rejuvenated and performing Fabinho next season is far more likely, as that's his norm.

[redrosetints]

Good Podcast. On Fab, the question is, have his legs gone, that’s it, washed up ? or has he been a victim of the systemic failure we’ve seen across the team. He certainly had a very poor run after the World Cup, as did the team but hes picked up in the last couple of months or so. Which has broadly coincided with a better team performance, so has his game improved to help us or has the team collectively improved, helping him. My gut is that’s it’s a combination of the two.

 

Would I get rid now ? Depends if a massive offer comes in, I’d consider it, but overall, if you believe that our up and down form is due to injuries, fatigue, low confidence etc then would anyone else make a difference or would they also look lost until, as a collective we pick up ?

 

So Id say he should stay next season and see how he goes in a mentally, physiologically and player refreshed team. Same for anyone else like Virg and Mo  who may not be playing at their previous heights. You have to refresh teams of course but you don’t go from 2 games from a quad to also rans as individuals and a collective, it’s more complex than that and we don’t want to throw the baby with the bath water.

 

 

[dave u]

3 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

I just can't agree with the dismissal of Fabinho as a player on the pod, particularly by Paul.  He was terrible for quite a while; that goes without saying.  But over the last 6-8 weeks in an underperforming team he has performed well (no one has performed excellently as our play has been too fragmented for that).  Recently Fabinho has not been one of the many issues we've had with players performing far worse than him.  To decide that over 5 years that the 2/3 of a season of poor play is the norm for him, and not the 5 years of excellent/good play from a still only 29 year old just seems odd to me.  

 

I think there's zero chance Klopp sells him because I'd be willing to bet Klopp thinks the same as me and that a rejuvenated and performing Fabinho next season is far more likely, as that's his norm.

 

I think he's been fine since Real Madrid at home when he first looked like he had rediscovered something. He's been either good or ok since then. I don't think he's washed up but that doesn't mean he's a shoe in to stay.

 

Assuming we bring in a younger, aggressive, mobile number six then does it make financial sense to keep Fabinho, or is the better option to move him on, free up the wages / bring in a fee and use Thiago/Bajcetic as the back up to the new guy?

 

I wouldn't be moving Fabinho on at all costs but some players are going to have to go if we're serious about refreshing the team and getting younger, and Fabinho is just one of the more obvious candidates to go

[JohnnyH]

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

I think he's been fine since Real Madrid at home when he first looked like he had rediscovered something. He's been either good or ok since then. I don't think he's washed up but that doesn't mean he's a shoe in to stay.

 

Assuming we bring in a younger, aggressive, mobile number six then does it make financial sense to keep Fabinho, or is the better option to move him on, free up the wages / bring in a fee and use Thiago/Bajcetic as the back up to the new guy?

 

I wouldn't be moving Fabinho on at all costs but some players are going to have to go if we're serious about refreshing the team and getting younger, and Fabinho is just one of the more obvious candidates to go

 

But there are no significant links to that type of player though?  We just keep getting linked to more attacking type players.  I think that's because Klopp trusts him to get back to form in a performing unit.

[redrosetints]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

But there are no significant links to that type of player though?  We just keep getting linked to more attacking type players.  I think that's because Klopp trusts him to get back to form in a performing unit.

Kalvin Phillips has been linked this afternoon, not sure what I think about that …

[Paul]

8 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

I just can't agree with the dismissal of Fabinho as a player on the pod, particularly by Paul.  He was terrible for quite a while; that goes without saying.  But over the last 6-8 weeks in an underperforming team he has performed well (no one has performed excellently as our play has been too fragmented for that).  Recently Fabinho has not been one of the many issues we've had with players performing far worse than him.  To decide that over 5 years that the 2/3 of a season of poor play is the norm for him, and not the 5 years of excellent/good play from a still only 29 year old just seems odd to me.  

 

I think there's zero chance Klopp sells him because I'd be willing to bet Klopp thinks the same as me and that a rejuvenated and performing Fabinho next season is far more likely, as that's his norm.

In my view the squad needs shaking up - and that means the unforced sale of one or two senior players. The ones I’d consider for sale would be Fabinho, Thiago, Matip and Jota (although four in a week has given me pause for thought there). 
 

As a squad, the traits I think we need injecting the most are pace, power and mobility - and especially in midfield. Even at his best, Fabinho has not had pace. That’s not been a problem before but as we change and adapt, I think we really need it at number six. It would help Trent in that new position of his to have a highly mobile player next to him and I think real pace in that six slot could mean a full five more years for Virgil. 
 

Furthermore we’ve already got an understudy in Bajcetic, and Hendo as the new Milner can also cover there. So I’d deffo look at selling Fabinho this summer. I doubt Klopp will though. 

[Mathewbet1]

In terms of if Fabinho’s legs have gone, surely with all the sports science stuff and those vests they wear, they would know right? That GPS shite can track speed an acceleration, I would be comparing his stats to a couple of years ago. Maybe the problem is that you can’t quite replicate in-game intensity in training. Long legged, rangy players bodies don’t tend to take years of abuse like the light players, see modric as a case in point. Fabinho's physical age could well be 35.  If you factor in all the sunday roasts he’s been having its no surprise he’s been a little leggy recently. 

[dave u]

4 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

But there are no significant links to that type of player though?  We just keep getting linked to more attacking type players.  I think that's because Klopp trusts him to get back to form in a performing unit.

 

Caicedo.

[dave u]

2 hours ago, redrosetints said:

Kalvin Phillips has been linked this afternoon, not sure what I think about that …

 

Linked by who? I'd be amazed (and pissed off) if there's anything in that.

[JohnnyH]

26 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Caicedo.

Yeah, a while ago, and very briefly, but nothing since. 

[redrosetints]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Linked by who? I'd be amazed (and pissed off) if there's anything in that.

Echo, Mail, Mirror, Manc evening post.

But it does say it originated in the Star, so you should be good to neither be amazed or pissed off. 

Edit. Mail says the Star, Echo  says the mirror, probably just one of those cyclical rumours on a slow news day.

[Paul]

Really don’t want their sloppy fucking seconds. And before someone tries to be a smart arse, that’s not what Big Games James on a free was. He turned down a contract offer from them. 

[Jimmy Hills Chin]

Excellent as always but I do have to take exception at one point that was made regarding Carragher and Neville pointing out the fuckwit chanting surrounding tragedies. One of the lads stated that Neville was really good at calling out issues in the game which is a crock of shit. Neville calls out what suits him and is strangely quiet on everything else; everyone remember the absence of noise from him over the Liverpool fans' treatment in Paris?

 

Neville is a self-serving prick whose morals can be very flexible when it benefits him (commentating in Dubai for example). He likes to portray himself as a  man of the people when he's actually a man of Gary Neville. Please don't perpetuate the fucking myth that he's trying to create around himself as a champion for justice as he's just a fucking cunt, nothing more.