Keir Starmer

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I think we share pretty similar views. Where we possibly differ is that I believe the degree of drift to the right for Labour is simply unnecessary. There are policy areas where they are long way to the right of the general public, even taking into account a month of pre election Murdoch cuntery. And my fear is that it isn't out of pragmatism, it's out of actual ideological position. That we're going to waste a term of Labour government.

 

However, like you, the country has become so utterly, utterly fucking shit that I would probably rejoice in the relative normality of John Major's government for a few years. Such has the bar been lowered.

 

As for the Twitter people, I simply don't give a fuck. These are basement dwelling nonces, on the right and the left. A complete fucking irrelevance. They don't represent anything, and certainly don't have the power to do anything.

There was something in Politico this morning that there’s a chance News UK could switch, or at least have a non aggression pact.

 

Even El Diablo himself can see which way the winds are blowing and all Starmer has to say is ‘Leverson 2’ and that might be enough so see the old, evil cunts heart explode*.

 

 

*We can but hope.

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I think we share pretty similar views. Where we possibly differ is that I believe the degree of drift to the right for Labour is simply unnecessary. There are policy areas where they are long way to the right of the general public, even taking into account a month of pre election Murdoch cuntery. And my fear is that it isn't out of pragmatism, it's out of actual ideological position. That we're going to waste a term of Labour government.

 

However, like you, the country has become so utterly, utterly fucking shit that I would probably rejoice in the relative normality of John Major's government for a few years. Such has the bar been lowered.

 

As for the Twitter people, I simply don't give a fuck. These are basement dwelling nonces, on the right and the left. A complete fucking irrelevance. They don't represent anything, and certainly don't have the power to do anything.

 

My views were hardened somewhat while working for a Labour MP under the Corbyn administration. I can only go by my own experiences, but these were some of the takeaways that led me to where I am now. 

 

(1) During the election there was zero, and I mean zero 'command and control'. There was no strategy. I used to write leaflets on  the fly that we could post and I basically just made them up save for a few pledges on the party website, because there was no messaging coming now from upon high. MPs had a WhatsApp group where they were sharing campaigning ideas because there were none coming down. 

 

(2) The response on the doorstep was poor. People had no time for Corbyn or Momentum. We had a young lad with us who was well into all that stuff and he used to argue on the doorstep with people (literally argue) about why they were wrong about Brexit and whatnot. 

 

(3) A lot of the people who branded themselves 'left' in our neck of the woods talked a good game but were nowhere to be seen when it came to doing any actual work (it was a winter election and it was a bit nippy). One of them attended conference and was selling CDs of 'working class songs' he'd written, I think he also had a donkey jacket - but his phone was always off when you needed someone to carry a box of leaflets. 

 

(4) The MP I worked for nearly lost. He is and was a hard-working local MP (I should  know because I did casework for him), we had a big stack of thankyou cards. We'd got people let back into Uni after they'd wrongly been accused of owing money, we got people new houses, we got people's benefits back, we got people jobs. This is the day to day stuff most people don't see. Despite this, he was given a 1% chance of winning and I remember his wife crying on the night when the exit polls came out. But he managed to cling on. Ever since then, he's walked a very find line trying not to piss anyone off (as I'd argue Starmer has, for the same reasons). This experience, more than anything, reinforced my contempt for Joe Sixpack. A sizeable chunk of them are lizard brains with little if any higher brain function when it comes to thinking about the country's future. They respond to fear and anger and three word soundbites the way a twitching muscle responds to an electric current. It's impolitic to say it - but the right grasps that simple truth far better than the left, and 2019 proved it. 

[Jairzinho]

14 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

My views were hardened somewhat while working for a Labour MP under the Corbyn administration. I can only go by my own experiences, but these were some of the takeaways that led me to where I am now. 

 

(1) During the election there was zero, and I mean zero 'command and control'. There was no strategy. I used to write leaflets on  the fly that we could post and I basically just made them up save for a few pledges on the party website, because there was no messaging coming now from upon high. MPs had a WhatsApp group where they were sharing campaigning ideas because there were none coming down. 

 

(2) The response on the doorstep was poor. People had no time for Corbyn or Momentum. We had a young lad with us who was well into all that stuff and he used to argue on the doorstep with people (literally argue) about why they were wrong about Brexit and whatnot. 

 

(3) A lot of the people who branded themselves 'left' in our neck of the woods talked a good game but were nowhere to be seen when it came to doing any actual work (it was a winter election and it was a bit nippy). One of them attended conference and was selling CDs of 'working class songs' he'd written, I think he also had a donkey jacket - but his phone was always off when you needed someone to carry a box of leaflets. 

 

(4) The MP I worked for nearly lost. He is and was a hard-working local MP (I should  know because I did casework for him), we had a big stack of thankyou cards. We'd got people let back into Uni after they'd wrongly been accused of owing money, we got people new houses, we got people's benefits back, we got people jobs. This is the day to day stuff most people don't see. Despite this, he was given a 1% chance of winning and I remember his wife crying on the night when the exit polls came out. But he managed to cling on. Ever since then, he's walked a very find line trying not to piss anyone off (as I'd argue Starmer has, for the same reasons). This experience, more than anything, reinforced my contempt for Joe Sixpack. A sizeable chunk of them are lizard brains with little if any higher brain function when it comes to thinking about the country's future. They respond to fear and anger and three word soundbites the way a twitching muscle responds to an electric current. It's impolitic to say it - but the right grasps that simple truth far better than the left, and 2019 proved it. 

 

Yeah, I think one and two were both really evident. He wasn't a good leader, and was never going to oversee a structure that was...well...structured. I do partly blame the Blair era though as they completely gutted the party and left it in a situation where any challenge from the "old left" was going to be from the handful of backbench protest types. They were as surprised as everyone else was that they were suddenly flung into a position of power within the party. 

 

Three I think is a result of the left essentially not really existing in prominent positions of society for a couple of decades. Working mens clubs closed, unions were ripped apart, etc. Even football now is one group of working class (and lower middle class now, I guess) people trying to "trigger" another with rhetoric which must have the likes of Murdoch cackling to himself. It's one of the most depressing sights in Britain hearing a group of Mancs singing about poverty in Liverpool. Or a group of Cockneys singing about it in Newcastle. And in this void came Twitter and the like, so the "new left" learned from/about stuff which essentially wasn't real for most people. This shit happens everywhere, to be fair. In Spain, Podemos quacked on about Venezuela and trans rights and so farmers in Extremadura and factory workers in Galicia who could barely feed their kids starting voting for PP (the Tories here).

 

We're definitely in agreement regarding four. This is Murdoch et al. The UK has the least knowledgeable population regarding economics and politics anywhere in Western Europe. You only have to watch Question Time and see some of the utter cretins in the audience. And this lot aren't the stupidest. Depressing stuff.

[Megadrive Man]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Owen Jones ripped up his membership today with a big piece in the Guardian.

 

I can’t wait for the Big rainbow/green trot party of the UK to come romping home now, any minute.

 

The funny thing is, Owen Jones quitting Labour is exactly the sort of thing that will make people in the centre much more likely to vote Labour. 

[Megadrive Man]

12 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

The way I see it is ask yourself, you wake up the day after the election, how do you feel if...

 

(1) Labour have won, or...

(2) The Tories have another five years.

 

I'd be fucking suicidal at the latter.

 

Yeah I'd be the same.

 

I am looking forward to the Tories hopefully, finally being eviscerated. 

 

I just worry that things could start to unravel very quickly for a Labour government, especially if little changes. 

[Arniepie]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

I think it'd take something such a major war to save them now. They are all over the place. A change of leader might help a bit as Sunak is not cutting it at all but I think think the country is done with them. Hopefully for good. 

 

The country imo wants a center left government which is fairer to those on the bottom/middle and will not let our public services decay. So for me it's frustrating that Starmers Labour seem reluctant to offer it. Every speech/announcement seems to move the party to the right. 

we havent had a centre left gmnt in about 40 years

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I think we share pretty similar views. Where we possibly differ is that I believe the degree of drift to the right for Labour is simply unnecessary. There are policy areas where they are long way to the right of the general public, even taking into account a month of pre election Murdoch cuntery. And my fear is that it isn't out of pragmatism, it's out of actual ideological position. That we're going to waste a term of Labour government.

 

However, like you, the country has become so utterly, utterly fucking shit that I would probably rejoice in the relative normality of John Major's government for a few years. Such has the bar been lowered.

 

As for the Twitter people, I simply don't give a fuck. These are basement dwelling nonces, on the right and the left. A complete fucking irrelevance. They don't represent anything, and certainly don't have the power to do anything.

 

Its not just the twitter mob who are concerned with the direction of travel within the Labour Party. A lot of good people not only from the left but from ethnic minorities who have campaigned against injustice all their lives who are not feeling welcome anymore within the Labour movement. 

 

 

To dismiss the likes of Asian  heart surgeons and black civil rights advocates is a dangerous game going forward. These people have done/are doing huge amounts of good on our streets and in our hospitals. They deserve to be listened to. 

 

You think it wise to piss people like the below off.

 

https://esc365.escardio.org/person/83045

 

 

 

 Labours plans for government might at this moment be inconsequential to some but others have the right to ask questions if they see fit. 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

we havent had a centre left gmnt in about 40 years

 

Yeah true. Center would have to do then. Sorry but not sure about the soup Reeves was trying to serve the other night though. 

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, I think one and two were both really evident. He wasn't a good leader, and was never going to oversee a structure that was...well...structured. I do partly blame the Blair era though as they completely gutted the party and left it in a situation where any challenge from the "old left" was going to be from the handful of backbench protest types. They were as surprised as everyone else was that they were suddenly flung into a position of power within the party. 

 

Three I think is a result of the left essentially not really existing in prominent positions of society for a couple of decades. Working mens clubs closed, unions were ripped apart, etc. Even football now is one group of working class (and lower middle class now, I guess) people trying to "trigger" another with rhetoric which must have the likes of Murdoch cackling to himself. It's one of the most depressing sights in Britain hearing a group of Mancs singing about poverty in Liverpool. Or a group of Cockneys singing about it in Newcastle. And in this void came Twitter and the like, so the "new left" learned from/about stuff which essentially wasn't real for most people. This shit happens everywhere, to be fair. In Spain, Podemos quacked on about Venezuela and trans rights and so farmers in Extremadura and factory workers in Galicia who could barely feed their kids starting voting for PP (the Tories here).

 

We're definitely in agreement regarding four. This is Murdoch et al. The UK has the least knowledgeable population regarding economics and politics anywhere in Western Europe. You only have to watch Question Time and see some of the utter cretins in the audience. And this lot aren't the stupidest. Depressing stuff.

its hard without making the thread about corbyn.

I concede he probably wouldnt have been a  bad leader,but personally I was sick to the back teeth of miliband bending over and apologising for causing the financial crash.

Corbyn at least represented change and gave people hope and he would have been massively preferable to that drunk mess.

[Gnasher]

13 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

its hard without making the thread about corbyn.

I concede he probably wouldnt have been a  bad leader,but personally I was sick to the back teeth of miliband bending over and apologising for causing the financial crash.

Corbyn at least represented change and gave people hope and he would have been massively preferable to that drunk mess.

 

I thought Corbs was a bit selfish not to hand over the reigns about 6 months before the last election when it was obvious the game was up. Its wrong that he's not allowed to serve his constituency from the back benches though. 

[Arniepie]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

I thought Corbs was a bit selfish not to hand over the reigns about 6 months before the last election when it was obvious the game was up. Its wrong that he's not allowed to serve his constituency from the back benches though. 

i think he was still fairly popular?

I remember scenes of him getting mobbed everytime he turned up for a tv appeareance

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

My views were hardened somewhat while working for a Labour MP under the Corbyn administration. I can only go by my own experiences, but these were some of the takeaways that led me to where I am now. 

 

(1) During the election there was zero, and I mean zero 'command and control'. There was no strategy. I used to write leaflets on  the fly that we could post and I basically just made them up save for a few pledges on the party website, because there was no messaging coming now from upon high. MPs had a WhatsApp group where they were sharing campaigning ideas because there were none coming down. 

 

(2) The response on the doorstep was poor. People had no time for Corbyn or Momentum. We had a young lad with us who was well into all that stuff and he used to argue on the doorstep with people (literally argue) about why they were wrong about Brexit and whatnot. 

 

 

 

No mention of 2017 I notice, or the fact that the centre and right of the party colluded for 2 years to ensure that Corbyn didnt have the structure to work from in 2019, the Gen Sec actually moving funds away secretly from needy constituencies to safe ones their mates had. The cunts even took him to court and wasted millions of pounds to try and stop him being on the leadership ballot. 

 

Corbyn was a hopeless leader, but mainly because he was too soft with the traitors in the party and deserves all he gets for being weak and ending up sitting there looking at them mocking him constantly.

 

On shutting up and letting Starmer do whatever he wants to win the election, I want rid of the Tories , but mainly for people who have been devastated by their policies. I am luckily in the position that I won't be massively affected by whoever wins and suspect a few on this thread are the same, but my worry is the likes of the working poor, people needing a serviceable NHS  and people struggling on benefits, and I have not seen a jot of positivism from Starmer and his main cohorts on any of these. The main pointer for me was him being unable to back relatively small economic changes that would have brought half a million kids out of poverty. 

 

I hope he makes me look stupid but I am not holding my breath looking at the evidence. In my opinion he will just  go rightwards once in power.

[TheHowieLama]

This fella seems as divisive as the last guy.

[Section_31]

13 minutes ago, sir roger said:

 

No mention of 2017 I notice, or the fact that the centre and right of the party colluded for 2 years to ensure that Corbyn didnt have the structure to work from in 2019, the Gen Sec actually moving funds away secretly from needy constituencies to safe ones their mates had. The cunts even took him to court and wasted millions of pounds to try and stop him being on the leadership ballot. 

 

Corbyn was a hopeless leader, but mainly because he was too soft with the traitors in the party and deserves all he gets for being weak and ending up sitting there looking at them mocking him constantly.

 

On shutting up and letting Starmer do whatever he wants to win the election, I want rid of the Tories , but mainly for people who have been devastated by their policies. I am luckily in the position that I won't be massively affected by whoever wins and suspect a few on this thread are the same, but my worry is the likes of the working poor, people needing a serviceable NHS  and people struggling on benefits, and I have not seen a jot of positivism from Starmer and his main cohorts on any of these. The main pointer for me was him being unable to back relatively small economic changes that would have brought half a million kids out of poverty. 

 

I hope he makes me look stupid but I am not holding my breath looking at the evidence. In my opinion he will just  go rightwards once in power.

 

Well no because I wasn't there in 2017, and he didn’t win that election.

 

And I don't want anyone to shut up, I want them to stop advocating against voting against Labour (as Jones is doing today) just so they can 'win the argument' (again) and leave us at the mercy of a gangster state. 

[Section_31]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

This fella seems as divisive as the last guy.

 

Nature of the modern "left", it'll be the same with whoever follows him. Impossible to be all things to all people. 

 

Hardcore Corbyn supporters only like Corbyn, Long Bailey - his chosen successor - Michael Foot, who lost, and John Smith, who sadly died. 

 

They hate Kinnock, Blair, Brown (who I've actually seen branded a Blairite, er), tend to be indifferent to Miliband.

 

Basically they hate most Labour leaders in my lifetime, including the only one who ever won anything. Which makes me suspect they don't actually like Labour, but what Labour briefly became (thanks in part to people who joined the party only to elect Corbyn).

 

They hate Blair more than they profess to hate Thatcher at rallies and on Twitter, and hate Starmer more than Johnson and Sunak combined.  It's  actually mental.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

 

Nature of the modern "left", it'll be the same with whoever follows him. Impossible to be all things to all people. 

 

 

Absolutely true this. 

 

From above I saw:

we havent had a centre left gmnt in about 40 years

 

It's not a country full of centre left citizens - why would you?

[Section_31]

You can never be left enough.

 

 

[Strontium]

19 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Hardcore Corbyn supporters only like Corbyn, Long Bailey - his chosen successor - Michael Foot, who lost, and John Smith, who sadly died. 

 

Mind you, it shouldn't be forgotten that before Smith died, Corbyn was calling for him to resign.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Mind you, it shouldn't be forgotten that before Smith died, Corbyn was calling for him to resign.

And that if it wasn’t for St Tones personal intervention Corbyn would have been deselected.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

This fella seems as divisive as the last guy.

 

He was the unity candidate. Many hoped he'd follow the Biden template. Unfortunately he did on foreign affairs (which is terrible) and has junked his domestic policies (which seem good).. 

 

Ah well. 

 

I

[TheSire]

3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, I think one and two were both really evident. He wasn't a good leader, and was never going to oversee a structure that was...well...structured. I do partly blame the Blair era though as they completely gutted the party and left it in a situation where any challenge from the "old left" was going to be from the handful of backbench protest types. They were as surprised as everyone else was that they were suddenly flung into a position of power within the party. 

 

Three I think is a result of the left essentially not really existing in prominent positions of society for a couple of decades. Working mens clubs closed, unions were ripped apart, etc. Even football now is one group of working class (and lower middle class now, I guess) people trying to "trigger" another with rhetoric which must have the likes of Murdoch cackling to himself. It's one of the most depressing sights in Britain hearing a group of Mancs singing about poverty in Liverpool. Or a group of Cockneys singing about it in Newcastle. And in this void came Twitter and the like, so the "new left" learned from/about stuff which essentially wasn't real for most people. This shit happens everywhere, to be fair. In Spain, Podemos quacked on about Venezuela and trans rights and so farmers in Extremadura and factory workers in Galicia who could barely feed their kids starting voting for PP (the Tories here).

 

We're definitely in agreement regarding four. This is Murdoch et al. The UK has the least knowledgeable population regarding economics and politics anywhere in Western Europe. You only have to watch Question Time and see some of the utter cretins in the audience. And this lot aren't the stupidest. Depressing stuff.

"If I have ten pounds, I can't buy 20 pints, it's not rocket science this economics guys!"

[Arniepie]

#dontvotelabour trending on twitter

 

another 5 years of this hellscape

 

sound

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

#dontvotelabour trending on twitter

 

another 5 years of this hellscape

 

sound

Tory bots as much as so called left wing headbangers I expect. 

[Anubis]

It doesn't matter what hashtag is trending on Twitter as its an exceptionally small barometer for the country. Nothing the Tories have done with their culture war has put a dent in Labour's poll lead. And the Tory vote is more likely to be split than the Labour vote, as the rabids split off to vote Reform, and the more traditional Tory voters split off to Labour and the Lib Dems.

 

Labour will have a very big majority. That's the reality.

[Creator Supreme]

11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Tory bots as much as so called left wing headbangers I expect. 

Oi, leave me alone.