VAR Thoughts?

[Lee909]

 

 

 

[Barnesey]

Refereeing decisions never used to create so much derision and so much cryarsing.  The guy in the middle would make a decision, get abused by one if not both sets of fans and everyone moved on. 
 

Now, with expectations so much higher, the ref, the VAR team and the guy in charge get abused for weeks after the incident. 
 

ive never been a fan of VAR and think it should be scrapped but this thread is becoming embarrassing with us trying to find a way to believe we’re being deliberately cheated and the world is against us. Every team has similar experiences; get over it. 

[Smell The Glove]

1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

Refereeing decisions never used to create so much derision and so much cryarsing.  The guy in the middle would make a decision, get abused by one if not both sets of fans and everyone moved on. 
 

Now, with expectations so much higher, the ref, the VAR team and the guy in charge get abused for weeks after the incident. 
 

ive never been a fan of VAR and think it should be scrapped but this thread is becoming embarrassing with us trying to find a way to believe we’re being deliberately cheated and the world is against us. Every team has similar experiences; get over it. 

But we don't live in that world anymore. You are correct other teams get shafted too so its not only us. For example it might have been the same weekend as the Doku kick, the Moder challenge, not sure if that shit show had that one on, I only watched the clip posted on here. With VAR now it's impossible to get those decisions wrong so people rightly ask why and how. You cannot get to the top of your profession and watch a replay and not know Doku is dangerous play and Moder is reckless. Its impossible. The problem people have, or at least I do, is there is no accountability. 1 week demotion at best. This is a billion pound industry, top of the table clash, a replay, a slow motion replay and 2 referees cannot see that is a penalty. And then to have that twat Webb do his best South Yorkshire copper routine to try and justify it, no wonder people are wound up. 

[Barrington Womble]

On 21/03/2024 at 07:22, Barnesey said:

Refereeing decisions never used to create so much derision and so much cryarsing.  The guy in the middle would make a decision, get abused by one if not both sets of fans and everyone moved on. 
 

Now, with expectations so much higher, the ref, the VAR team and the guy in charge get abused for weeks after the incident. 
 

ive never been a fan of VAR and think it should be scrapped but this thread is becoming embarrassing with us trying to find a way to believe we’re being deliberately cheated and the world is against us. Every team has similar experiences; get over it. 

@Smell The Glove post sums up a.lot.of my thoughts. But there is also the shadow of the referee who's done some of the most outrageous things this season, has done so on the pitch and from the VAR room, his most outrageous decisions seems to favour Manchester City and never against them, and interestingly he's off on regular freelancing gigs in Abu Dhabi, being paid by Manchester City's owners. In a move not only supported by Webb, but promoted by Webb. Maybe he's being honest. Maybe he's not. The conflict of interests is absolutely clear. And putting shite like that with Webb and Owen on Sky "they both went in high", does absolutely nothing to dispell fears of that suspicious relationship. 

 

Wolves, forest and others have had bad times this season. That doesn't mean we have referees who are fair, competent and without conflicts of interests. In fact it is far easier to hide corruption if there is an absolute bucket load of shit everywhere. 

 

What is embarrassing is people throughout this country who seem to think our referees are the only referees around the world who are beyond reproach. The PGMOL is the only business anywhere which is immune to corruption. 

[The wanderer]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

@Smell The Glove post sums up a.lot.of my thoughts. But there is also the shadow of the referee who's done some of the most outrageous things this season, has done so on the pitch and from the VAR room, his most outrageous decisions seems to favour Manchester City and never against them, and interestingly he's off on regular freelancing gigs in Abu Dhabi, being paid by Manchester City's owners, in a move not only supported by Webb, but promoted by Webb. Maybe he's being honest. Maybe he's not. The conflict of interests is absolutely clear. And putting shite like that with Webb and Owen on Sky "they both went in high", does absolutely nothing to dispell fears of that suspicious relationship. 

 

Wolves, forest and others have had bad times this season. That doesn't mean we have referees who are fair, competent and without conflicts of interests. In fact it is far easier to hide corruption and in absolute bucket load of shit everywhere. 

I am not 100% sold on conspiracy but what’s pissing me off is the sheer inconsistency of these decisions followed by the spin. They call it one way then flip the same call in another , the less said about Webb the better he was a biased cunt when he reff’d now he is a stupid cunt. Owen is the wrong man for that show , way too soft . Craig Burley , Le Boef and Hislop called it right - garbage!!

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, The wanderer said:

I am not 100% sold on conspiracy but what’s pissing me off is the sheer inconsistency of these decisions followed by the spin. They call it one way then flip the same call in another , the less said about Webb the better he was a biased cunt when he reff’d now he is a stupid cunt. Owen is the wrong man for that show , way too soft . Craig Burley , Le Boef and Hislop called it right - garbage!!

I don't think it matters if it's corruption or not. There needs only to be an appearance of corruption. And Webb allowing his referees to freelance for Manchester city's owners is mental. The way regional allocations of referees seems to depend on which referees it is, which city it is. There seems no issue in having any of the Manchester referees, refereeing Manchester clubs. Yet Liverpool referees seem not to be able to referee Liverpool clubs as an example. I'm pretty sure Oliver isn't allowed to referee Newcastle. There are so many things that allow the impression that not everything is above board, means they need a quality of decision making that is pretty much faultless or the smell of corruption just gets stronger. 

[The wanderer]

2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't think it matters if it's corruption or not. There needs only to be an appearance of corruption. And Webb allowing his referees to freelance for Manchester city's owners is mental. The way regional allocations of referees seems to depend on which referees it is, which city it is. There seems no issue in having any of the Manchester referees, refereeing Manchester clubs. Yet Liverpool referees seem not to be able to referee Liverpool clubs as an example. I'm pretty sure Oliver isn't allowed to referee Newcastle. There are so many things that allow the impression that not everything is above board, means they need a quality of decision making that is pretty much faultless or the smell of corruption just gets stronger. 

Yeah. I get it and agree 100% , freelancing for City’s owners just leads it open to conjecture and just shouldn’t be allowed. The local guys not being allowed to ref us but local refs get Manchester games (Oliver can’t do Newcastle as he is a fan)has always pissed me off too , should be the same for all clubs.

[Smell The Glove]

26 minutes ago, The wanderer said:

I am not 100% sold on conspiracy but what’s pissing me off is the sheer inconsistency of these decisions followed by the spin. They call it one way then flip the same call in another , the less said about Webb the better he was a biased cunt when he reff’d now he is a stupid cunt. Owen is the wrong man for that show , way too soft . Craig Burley , Le Boef and Hislop called it right - garbage!!

It's not Owen, it's Sky. All Owen is doing is asking the questions pre determined by Sky and Webb. If you think Owen is asking his own questions you have a higher opinion of him than I do. I said in another post, Owen is the pundit dumb enough to take the role and all the ridicule that goes with it. What's more disturbing is why Sky allows Webb to have this platform in the first place.

[Barrington Womble]

15 minutes ago, The wanderer said:

Yeah. I get it and agree 100% , freelancing for City’s owners just leads it open to conjecture and just shouldn’t be allowed. The local guys not being allowed to ref us but local refs get Manchester games (Oliver can’t do Newcastle as he is a fan)has always pissed me off too , should be the same for all clubs.

 

The allocation of Manchester referees to games or games of their rivals is mind-blowing really. There's a long established protocol in football, that this just doesn't happen, as long as I've watched the game for sure. I realised that had to change a little during COVID, but it's not COVID now. We wouldn't expect an English referee to ref England during the euros this season, or an Italian referee in our next uefa cup game, so why do people think it's acceptable for Manchester referees to be involved in Manchester games? 

 

Another question that needs to be asked is why are so many of the elite level referees from that area? Their performance wouldn't suggest it is because they're good. So have they found a way to play the system which allows a more favourable path to the top of the game? Whatever it is needs looking at, because the sheer number of refs from that area on the PGMOL list is another questionable situation. 

[Dave D]

Before VAR, refs got huge stick but you could argue a case for them they had to make split decisions in the heat of the moment- they couldnt go back and change their minds once they made a decision, and teams got robbed as a result.

 

VAR solved ALL of those issues, they could watch incidents in freeze frame and completely change their minds if they want to- problem solved, what a great idea. The game will benefit hugely from it. It works brilliantly in other sports. Once you have a chance to pause and look at an incident on a screen you literally cant get it wrong! You cant.

 

But they do. Frequently. Often when the stakes are highest.  

 

 

 

  

 

  

    

[The wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

It's not Owen, it's Sky. All Owen is doing is asking the questions pre determined by Sky and Webb. If you think Owen is asking his own questions you have a higher opinion of him than I do. I said in another post, Owen is the pundit dumb enough to take the role and all the ridicule that goes with it. What's more disturbing is why Sky allows Webb to have this platform in the first place.

Nah Owen is always like that even when he is involved in pundit work , never aggressively probing . Agree with you on Sky allowing Webb on but nothing Sky does should shock. Interesting to hear Craig Burley on ESPN say that when Webb was involved with the MSL they had him on once , never had him back.

[No2]

Open to correction on this but I don't think Sky have anything to do with that show. It's a PL production screened on Sky and BT. 

[Mook]

54 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Before VAR, refs got huge stick but you could argue a case for them they had to make split decisions in the heat of the moment- they couldnt go back and change their minds once they made a decision, and teams got robbed as a result.

 

VAR solved ALL of those issues, they could watch incidents in freeze frame and completely change their minds if they want to- problem solved, what a great idea. The game will benefit hugely from it. It works brilliantly in other sports. Once you have a chance to pause and look at an incident on a screen you literally cant get it wrong! You cant.

 

But they do. Frequently. Often when the stakes are highest.  

 

 

 

  

 

  

    

 

Quite easy to get it 'wrong' as a lot of big decisions in Football are subjective so unless you yourself are in charge of what happens in every game, you are going to disagree with some decisions.

 

Comparing football to other sports doesn't work either, it is a free flowing, simple game & that is why it became by far the most popular sport in the World. Introducing rules from rugby, cricket or baseball only serves to detract from our enjoyment & the general beauty of it.

 

Quite simply, introducing VAR into Football was a huge mistake & should be reversed as soon as fucking possible.

[Dave D]

25 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Quite easy to get it 'wrong' as a lot of big decisions in Football are subjective so unless you yourself are in charge of what happens in every game, you are going to disagree with some decisions.

 

Comparing football to other sports doesn't work either, it is a free flowing, simple game & that is why it became by far the most popular sport in the World. Introducing rules from rugby, cricket or baseball only serves to detract from our enjoyment & the general beauty of it.

 

Quite simply, introducing VAR into Football was a huge mistake & should be reversed as soon as fucking possible.

 

If a decision is subjective in the first instance then you simply look at the replay and apply the rules? You can have differing opinion but the actual footage in front of you solves it. Its hard to get that wrong.       

[Mook]

9 minutes ago, Dave D said:

 

If a decision is subjective in the first instance then you simply look at the replay and apply the rules? You can have differing opinion but the actual footage in front of you solves it. Its hard to get that wrong.       

 

This thread is proof that it's very easy to get the decisions wrong after one view of it or 100 views.

 

People keep saying it's the clowns running it who are the problem, but we're all fucking clowns really, we make mistakes, are open to influence, we're inconsistent & we're human.

 

Adding this extra layer of clowning was never going to solve anything and never will.

[Mook]

I was amazed in 2019 that any Football fans were in favour of this shite.

 

It absolutely beggars belief that after five years of evidence of it completely wrecking our game anyone can see anything remotely positive in it. It's incomprehensible to me in every single way.

[Dave D]

5 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

This thread is proof that it's very easy to get the decisions wrong.

 

People keep saying it's the clowns running it who are the problem, but we're all fucking clowns really, we make mistakes, are open to influence, we're inconsistent & we're human.

 

Adding this extra layer of clowning was never going to solve anything and never will.

 

Your right in general but I cant accept the inability to apply the rules of the game to incidents that are being played out on a screen in front of you. I dont know why they seem to be almost commentating the game as it goes along.                

[Smell The Glove]

18 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

This thread is proof that it's very easy to get the decisions wrong after one view of it or 100 views.

 

People keep saying it's the clowns running it who are the problem, but we're all fucking clowns really, we make mistakes, are open to influence, we're inconsistent & we're human.

 

Adding this extra layer of clowning was never going to solve anything and never will.

I understand what you are saying and a lot of the issues you raise make sense. Football does have a lot more subjective decisions. In tennis and cricket the video is used for factual decisions, was the ball in or out, did it hit the bat etc. What is currently happening though is they are making subjective decisions out of rules that are already in place. Kicking somebody in the chest with both feet off the ground is not subjective, it's dangerous play. Why didn't they apply the law with clear video evidence is what people want answers to?

[gkmacca]

58 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

People keep saying it's the clowns running it who are the problem, but we're all fucking clowns really, we make mistakes, are open to influence, we're inconsistent & we're human.

 

 

 

...Nuffink we can do, man, except medicate ourselves. The Tories, VAR, global capitalism, Putin, Trump - we all make mistakes, man, they're just like us, man, it's all relative anyhow, just let it all go and medicate.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

Open to correction on this but I don't think Sky have anything to do with that show. It's a PL production screened on Sky and BT. 

If sky and tnt had any balls then, they'd just say sorry, we're not broadcasting this propaganda bullshit. 

[Smell The Glove]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

Open to correction on this but I don't think Sky have anything to do with that show. It's a PL production screened on Sky and BT. 

That explains a lot then. I'll echo what Womble said.

[Mook]

16 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

 

 

 

...Nuffink we can do, man, except medicate ourselves. The Tories, VAR, global capitalism, Putin, Trump - we all make mistakes, man, they're just like us, man, it's all relative anyhow, just let it all go and medicate.

 

I'm not sure I would equate disagreeing on a free kick in a Football match to blowing up a hospital or implimenting a completely unfair political system on an entire country but yes, meditation might help.

[Scooby Dudek]

I think when it was first introduced it was seen , ironically, as reversing "clear and obvious" misses by the onfield officials. Sterling offside against City, Kompany non sending off against City as two examples.

 

If it had been left at that, then fine, but this taking 5 minutes to multi review possible contact with the top of the arm or zooming in and drawing lines etc was, as far as I remember,  never mentioned as part of it. 

It's like power mad pricks have been given more power and now feel they are in charge of the game as opposed to servants of the game. 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

18 hours ago, Smell The Glove said:

I understand what you are saying and a lot of the issues you raise make sense. Football does have a lot more subjective decisions. In tennis and cricket the video is used for factual decisions, was the ball in or out, did it hit the bat etc. What is currently happening though is they are making subjective decisions out of rules that are already in place. Kicking somebody in the chest with both feet off the ground is not subjective, it's dangerous play. Why didn't they apply the law with clear video evidence is what people want answers to?

Officially it would be termed as 'reckless' which is almost always a caution and 'Excessive Force' which is a sending off. 'Dangerous' is not on the criteria,it's careless,reckless or excessive force. And now the criteria indicates 'no contact is an Indirect Free Kick but contact is a direct free kick.'

[Jairzinho]

It's utter shite and has further ruined the sport. However, it is also true to say that it is worse here than anywhere else because we have some of the very worst officials on the planet. Old, fat, unprofessional cunts all part of a little boy's club. The emergence of Newcastle and City with their owners, and the extra work they can offer, has compounded the issue. 

 

Our refs are shit and bent, and VAR gives them a protective layer for both things.