Is it safe to come out yet? - by John Brennan

[liverpoolsno9]

This is HIS team, essentially. He should get this season, at least. But he needs to start doing better.

Better than 4th? May as well sack him now

[eeyore]

I just don't get why he hasn't at least tried to buy defenders or a defensive midfielder. It's fucking ridiculous

[johnb]

All I ask is that year on year we get better.

 

We will see if we do this year...

[JoeBuck]

My expectations John is that we should be challenging for the League this season , get out of Group stages , and win a trophy. Be disappointed if these aren't achieved.

 

My mid term expectations are to win the League in the next 2-3seasons and the European Cup in the next 3-4.

 

You make a lot of fair points about Klopp and learning his lessons - probably the biggest one being that he can't turn Mignolet, Lovren, Moreno, Hendo (as a defensive midfielder) into the players he wants or we need and he should have rectified this by now. He's still great though:)

[jimmycase]

This guy is entitled to his opinion. But he's just on a fucking wind up. You dont express such dissatisfaction with a manager 'not having a clue' how to fix things and the rest for 2 seasons, think he's going to carry on in the same manner for a third and beyond but say 'I dont want him gone.'

 

Well what the fuck do you want if the manager isnt going to fix things and doesnt have a clue? Are you just going to sit on the fucking internet and moan about the same old things in every article you post?

 

Sorry, Im not having it. It smacks of 'I'll put my dissatisfaction out there then when there's a groundswell of opinion turning against Klopp, I'll be giving it the 'I told you so 2 seasons ago but you wouldnt listen.'

[Pureblood]

All I ask is that year on year we get better.

 

We will see if we do this year...

 

In terms of the league, which appears to be your main focus, he has improved our position year on year.  

 

In terms of the Champions League, this is his first season.  Getting to the final on his only other attempt in European competition bodes well.

 

Your discontent (some would say outright contempt) therefore seems to be misplaced.

 

You don't like him, fine.  But at least acknowledge the facts.

[Moo]

... I am laying it all down on Klopp. If Klopp can't do this then I am sorry to tell you this but no one can.

I have to agree with this. Unless we get mega-rich owners Klopp is, for me, without doubt our best hope. His achievements in Germany, his ability to improve players, promising young players wanting to come to LFC in no small part because of him.

Even with mega-rich owners I'd still want Klopp.

 

I think some of the bullshit at the moment is due to one thing, people being precious little fannies about him berating the crowd. I don't particularly agree with him doing it, but he has point. Couple that within his personality and I can understand why it happens.

[s(k)aturation]

Whatever happened to Big Cheese/AlanKayll?

[Ranxerox]

Working harder on the training ground to improve us.

 

 

Yeah because there's loads of stories that Klopp is a lazy twat when it comes to training.

[Funkasy]

Giving lovren and mignolet new contracts and then buying wijnaldum made my alarm bells ring. Then he uses Lucas instead of Klavan for a whole season and then sells lucas instead of klavan and now hes probably a regular starter because the other spineless fucker Lovren is always injured after a brain fart.

 

On a positive note, Salah and Mane are very good and if they only had a good/deadly forward to play with.

[G Richards]

So I'm either on a wind-up.

A Blue.

A Manc.

A xenophobe.

A drama queen.

All five.

Instant gratification? 73 League games. Same defensive issues.

We will see where we are in May.

You aren't saying anything that's not obvious. The defence has issues. Thanks for pointing it out. Oh, and you don't like the manager - that's the bit where you are rubbing people up the wrong way.

 

But anyhow, let me take you up on your point, "We'll see where we are in May." What is your expectation? It probably isn't too much out of step with what everyone else expects, but please answer as I'd genuinely be interested to hear what you expect this team will do.

 

I'm happy to go first...

 

There are six teams who all expect to finish top four. If we finish top four that will be decent. We need that to become a habit and then we can look higher. Obviously if the team surprises us with a title challenge we will take it, but as for the league, most fans would say we are hoping for a top four finish. I'm one of them, and I'm a big Klopp supporter.

 

What do you expect the team to do this season?

[G Richards]

All I ask is that year on year we get better.

We will see if we do this year...

Well, there's a sense in which we are doing better. Last season we were not in the CL. This season we are in that competition.

 

#progress

[smilezzz]

So I'm either on a wind-up.

A Blue.

A Manc.

A xenophobe.

A drama queen.

All five.

 

Instant gratification? 73 League games. Same defensive issues.

 

We will see where we are in May.

Hey, if the tone of your articles fits...

[smilezzz]

What do you expect the team to do this season?

Thats the thing, he claims he wants to see progress, but refuses to acknowledge the progress made, and does so in the most snarky way possible.

[Creator Supreme]

Better! A shit sandwich, but better! Well done!

[G Richards]

Thats the thing, he claims he wants to see progress, but refuses to acknowledge the progress made, and does so in the most snarky way possible.

Exactly. We're not a bunch of blind happy clappers. We can see some flaws in Jurgen. The defence needs to improve and there's one or two smaller things, like substitutions. But overall we are making progress. The attacking football is sublime when it clicks. We finished top four last season when the norm was becoming 6th-8th.

 

It's not perfect, but Jurgen is a good'un and it's moving in the right direction overall. The sniping at the manager grates me and seems very unlike what I expect of a Liverpool fan. But each to their own I suppose.

 

I've heard a lot of moaning but I'm not yet clear on what John B expects the team to do.

[Ranxerox]

Exactly. We're not a bunch of blind happy clappers. We can see some flaws in Jurgen. The defence needs to improve and there's one or two smaller things, like substitutions. But overall we are making progress. The attacking football is sublime when it clicks. We finished top four last season when the norm was becoming 6th-8th.

It's not perfect, but Jurgen is a good'un and it's moving in the right direction overall. The sniping at the manager grates me and seems very unlike what I expect of a Liverpool fan. But each to their own I suppose.

I've heard a lot of moaning but I'm not yet clear on what John B expects the team to do.

G knows

[jimmycase]

All I ask is that year on year we get better.

 

We will see if we do this year...

 

OK, so why are we suddenly one of the two best teams in the league when it comes to conceding shots against if klopp has not done anything positive with our defense?

 

 

11/12: 3rd - 11.1 shots against per game under The King

 

12/13: 4th - 11.5 shots against per game under Rodgers

 

13/14: 7th - 12.6 shots against per game under Rodgers

 

14/15: 5th - 10.9 shots against per game under Rodgers

 

15/16: 2nd - 10.5 shots against per game under combination of Rodgers and Klopp

 

16/17: 2nd - 8.2 shots against per game first full season under Klopp

 

17/18: 2nd - 7.8 shots against per game so far this season under Klopp

[an tha]

And the results of those chances in terms of goals?....

 

Looking at shots faced and saying we have faced less so we have improved is like a boxer arguing his defences are better because he has been hit with less punches than in his previous 3 fights after being knocked out in 3 straight fights

[jsjazz]

Its not unreasonable for the OP to be critical of the manager without wanting him to be sacked. I love Klopp but for the life of me cannot see why the defence hasn't been improved in 2 years, and asking why shouldn't be out of bounds.

In terms of expectations, if we really are reduced to scraping 4th is a good season then thats not acceptable. Sure, short term getting top 4 is a good thing, IF it leads to more money and better players. But I think people are disappointed at the transfer window and see it as a massive opportunity missed to kick on. Inadequate transfer window (1 great signing, 1 kid for the future, 1 left back who isnt getting a regular look in, 1 player for next year, while we've lost a couple, and the squad struggled to cope last season even without CL football), failure to see any discernible improvement in midfield or defence, out of one of the 2 trophies we had a realistic chance of winning in the first round- surely you can see why some people might think this is not great progress?

I don't feel more confident about improving our league position compared to last year given how our competition for top 4 have strengthened (City, Mancs) or were and remain better defensively than us (Spurs, Chelsea). I know we don't have a divine right to win the league or CL, but given our history surely that is what we should be aspiring to? Especially as the 9th richest club in the world?

Shots against- don't care if we are conceding least shots against if the majority of those shots are converted into goals. Maybe we are conceding really clear cut chances? Maybe our defensive errors are so bad that a goal is the inevitable outcome?

I'm not convinced that VVD will miraculously solve all the problems, but a better less error prone player will improve our chances of conceding fewer goals. I think we also need to look at the screening provided by the midfield, and that is something that Klopp could do something about.

[G Richards]

I would argue top four IS a good season for where we are right now. I grew up when first was first and second was nowhere, so it seems odd saying it, but top four, for this team now in its current development, given where we've been in recent years and the opposition we are facing, is a decent return. If we do that then two of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs will miss out, which again is good for us.

 

Don't get me wrong though - establishing ourselves in the top four is not an end in itself. It is only a means to an end, which is competing consistently for the biggest prizes and hopefully landing them again (league and CL).

[Iceman]

In the disgusting shithouse world of modern footy, supporting Klopp to the absolute hilt is the most old school and authentic thing we can do. I am still all in on the dude. If he wants to get into it with the crowd, let's just view it as a form of Tourettes and move the fugg on. We're not going to get better and even if we could I would still be hesitant to get rid, as I rather like his brand of madness. 

[Philbert]

Everyone is entitled to their view but I'm afraid I found the tone of the whole piece to be snide and divisive. One or two reasonable points were almost made, but when you have to traverse layers of snide to get to said point, it is self defeating.

 

If it's a wind up, well played.

If it's not a wind up, hopefully it only represents a tiny fraction of our fan base.

 

Of course the defence is iffy. Blah blah blah. But let's have some context to the moaning. We just qualified for the CL for only the second time in 8 years. We had a tricky game against Sevilla and on another night we'd have won it comfortably on the balance of play and chances. I'm backing us to progress through the group. We'll see.

 

As for the league, we've had an average start after four games, but again, some perspective please. Not many will come away from Man City with anything to show for the trip, never mind when you are a man down. We are one win back from matching the 10 point tally of the two teams at the top, with loads of football to be played.

 

As for the manager, I'm not aware of anyone who is blind to his faults. Everyone knows the team is set up with a bias to attack, and the defence is iffy. There are minor things beyond that, but that's the main flaw. If those on the negative side of the fence think they are true aficionados because they are the only ones who can see it, rest assured you are not.

 

The negativity grates, but each to his own on that. If that's how you see the world, more power to you. It is probabaly too much to ask for a modicum of perspective and a dash of fairness thrown in too.

 

Support the manager? Nah, I'll stick the boot in.

You will be burned at the stake for such reasoned, balanced and adult observations - you do realise that don't you?

[Philbert]

In the disgusting shithouse world of modern footy, supporting Klopp to the absolute hilt is the most old school and authentic thing we can do. I am still all in on the dude. If he wants to get into it with the crowd, let's just view it as a form of Tourettes and move the fugg on. We're not going to get better and even if we could I would still be hesitant to get rid, as I rather like his brand of madness.

This - all day long - amen brother!

[johnb]

When we click (which has happened a lot and will continue to do so) we are as good as anyone there is.

 

Am I negative? Yes, no shit Sherlock.

 

We've progressed under him (cf. our League positions). But I'm beginning to wonder how far more he can take us, that is all.

 

If the expectation is to be in the Top Four every season, then fine. To really challenge for the Title? I think he needs to bring something extra to the table, notably at the back.

 

Both are possible, as numerous teams have shown over the years.