Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Boss]

Corbyn will get nothing done. He'll lose most of the votes to the Tories even if he was Prime Minister. The party rebel against him all the time. He has no authority. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

2 hours ago, Grinch said:

 

Agendas to the left, agendas to the right.   Both as bad and controlled as the other with the masters pulling the strings.   

 

 

Here I am, stuck in the middle with EU.

[Barrington Womble]

3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think you've rather broadened what you were replying to.

 

I don't think Corbyn is remotely close to being "great". I also, personally, don't really care that much who the leader is as long as they're a vehicle for democratic socialist policies. Although, I realise it's important for other people. And getting their votes.

  

But anyone who thinks he'll "bankrupt the country" has been swallowing bullshit from the press. They're the sort of people who believe the Tories are better with the economy. A safe pair of hands. That austerity was necessary rather than a political choice. That we have to "live within our means". That debt and deficits can only be reduced by cuts. They tend to believe the economics of one person works exactly the same way as a that of a country. 

 

And they believe all of this because unless they go out of their way to learn about economics it's the only message they'll read in our papers and see on telly. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree people are swallowing press bullshit, but here's the thing - if you want a vehicle for democratic social policies as you claim, you have to accept that personalities matter. People do vote on personalities , people swallow what the press tell them and some personalities because of their history are easier to undermine than others. Having an opposition leader that is less popular than the worst PM ever is an issue, I don't care what anyone says. I want the tories out and asap. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 hours ago, Boss said:

Corbyn will get nothing done. He'll lose most of the votes to the Tories even if he was Prime Minister. The party rebel against him all the time. He has no authority. 

I might take your benal predictions more seriously if you didn’t present them as fact. 

 

Just kidding. I wouldn’t. 

[Jairzinho]

Would happily see him replaced with a young socialist today. And I agree re the baggage.

 

Put a tingy in charge and I think Labour will get demolished. 

 

I do agree with you that, sadly, this personality bollocks is important to lots of people. However, that is because a large chunk of the population is utterly cretinous. Long term, would be nice if that wasn't the case.

 

It doesn't have to be.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

benal?

[cloggypop]

1 minute ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

benal?

Danish hiphop group. From Copenhagen. 

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

benal?

Well, what are your Danish rap predictions?

 

Easy sniping away on the sidelines, you shithouse.

[cloggypop]

I predict they are shite. 

 

 

[Boss]

31 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I might take your benal predictions more seriously if you didn’t present them as fact. 

 

Just kidding. I wouldn’t. 

What problem do you have with me all of a sudden? We were speaking jovially over pm about a month ago 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

What problem do you have with me all of a sudden? We were speaking jovially over pm about a month ago 

It was tongue in cheek, man! I just disagree with you on this Brexit stuff. Sometimes text comes across differently to the way it was intended. Just playing rough I guess. Apologies if there was any actual offence caused. 

[Boss]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

It was tongue in cheek, man! I just disagree with you on this Brexit stuff. Sometimes text comes across differently to the way it was intended. Just playing rough I guess. Apologies if there was any actual offence caused. 

Okay, no worries. We can disagree about the Brexit stuff without taking pot shots at each other, you know? My opinions are pretty banal though. I apologise also, for getting the wrong end of the stick.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Can I encourage people who aren’t already to register to vote. It’s easier than ever. It takes two minutes, is easy as signing an online petition, and will do much more good when the time comes. There’s a load of options to suit your needs. Takes two minutes and allows you to be in the electoral register without being on the open register. 

 

You can even register your postal vote at the same time if that is easier. Shit they’ll post or email you the form that you can either sign and post back or you can scan the cunt and email it back. They’re just shy of sending somebody to give you a reach around. 

 

http://gov.uk/registertovote

 

Make sure your voice counts. A bit. Elections are likely coming up. Dont fuck this one up. 

 

 

[sir roger]

A bit unfair on Corbyn , blaming him for for being personally disliked when he has been vilified and lied about daily in 90% of the tv and written media.

 

The one time he was legally given a level playing field to explain his thoughts and views he performed excellently and came across as almost avuncular in the run up to the last election.

 

Like some other recent posters I do not see him as being as important as the policies of the Labour party and would ideally like to see a younger left of centre candidate emerge , but I would always vote for a guy who gets up every morning wanting to make the lives of the British people better, rather than a person who wakes up every morning worrying about how they can look after their own party and friends at the expense of the vast majority of those British people.

[Barrington Womble]

7 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

Would happily see him replaced with a young socialist today. And I agree re the baggage.

 

Put a tingy in charge and I think Labour will get demolished. 

 

I do agree with you that, sadly, this personality bollocks is important to lots of people. However, that is because a large chunk of the population is utterly cretinous. Long term, would be nice if that wasn't the case.

 

It doesn't have to be.

We'll always have large parts of the electorate that is utterly cretinous and we don't need a labour leader that is all things to all men. But we do need one that can appeal to enough people to get enough horse past the post first. I just don't think Corbyn can do that. Every time he has a good day, they dig something up from the 80's and undermine him. His policies today have nothing to do with it, but he's of an age where he's treated with the disdain that  the labour left of the 80's have always had. I genuinely believe if we want a labour (or even a coalition left wing government) government at the next election, we won't do it with Corbyn in charge as too many of the electorate just can't countenance him. 

[Jairzinho]

As I've said, mate, the baggage is an issue. Part of the problem is that Blair and Mandelson gutted the party of socialists to the point where there is almost an entire generation missing. 45-60 year old socialists. It's why there are only the handful of 60+ socialists like Corbyn still in the party, and several under 45 that are probably too wet behind the ears.

 

Would happily see someone like Lewis or Burgon take over immediately.

[SasaS]

So there's a market for middle-aged socialists in the UK? More business opportunities for Cloggypop.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

15 hours ago, Grinch said:

 

Agendas to the left, agendas to the right.   Both as bad and controlled as the other with the masters pulling the strings.   

 

 

What is that drivel even supposed to mean?

[Grinch]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

What is that drivel even supposed to mean?

 

 

It means the left are pushing more and more people to the right.   Fueling anger and resentment that then is easily directed at the wrong people.  

 

I can't particularly be arsed getting into it cause nothing is ever going to change.  Those at the bottom of the pyramid being divided by whatever means necessary and fighting amongst themselves whilst those at the top profit has been going on from well before I was here and will continue long after.   The man's won, fuck all the sheep can do now but suck it up, close their eyes and pretend they're happy to the sad pitiful state of existence the working class have to put with. 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

11 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

As I've said, mate, the baggage is an issue. Part of the problem is that Blair and Mandelson gutted the party of socialists to the point where there is almost an entire generation missing. 45-60 year old socialists. It's why there are only the handful of 60+ socialists like Corbyn still in the party, and several under 45 that are probably too wet behind the ears.

 

Would happily see someone like Lewis or Burgon take over immediately.

I get that about Blair. But equally I think anyone who was around to the left pre-blair (probably pre-Kinnock) will never be given any type of a fair crack of the whip. I personally think Corbyn has done his job. He has set a new discussion, he has the youth interested in politics. I agree there's probably a shortage of talent from the left who don't have a history pre-blair to be dug up and used against them and if that's the case I would sooner have someone more to the center who might have a chance to get elected. A more central labour leader has to be better than the alternative, which at the next GE could well be a very right wing tory leader and government. This for me is definately a win at all costs election for Labour. 

[Jairzinho]

1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

I get that about Blair. But equally I think anyone who was around to the left pre-blair (probably pre-Kinnock) will never be given any type of a fair crack of the whip. I personally think Corbyn has done his job. He has set a new discussion, he has the youth interested in politics. I agree there's probably a shortage of talent from the left who don't have a history pre-blair to be dug up and used against them and if that's the case I would sooner have someone more to the center who might have a chance to get elected. A more central labour leader has to be better than the alternative, which at the next GE could well be a very right wing tory leader and government. This for me is definately a win at all costs election for Labour. 

I'm not convinced a centrist wins an election.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Grinch said:

 

 

It means the left are pushing more and more people to the right.   Fueling anger and resentment that then is easily directed at the wrong people.  

 

I can't particularly be arsed getting into it cause nothing is ever going to change.  Those at the bottom of the pyramid being divided by whatever means necessary and fighting amongst themselves whilst those at the top profit has been going on from well before I was here and will continue long after.   The man's won, fuck all the sheep can do now but suck it up, close their eyes and pretend they're happy to the sad pitiful state of existence the working class have to put with. 

 

 

Fair enough.  You're a jaded cynic who can't be arsed, so you're excusing yourself from any action to improve things by pretending "they're all the same" and there's nothing to be done. It's much easier to sulk in a corner, carping at people who still have a spark of life.  Unfortunately, I think there are millions like you.

 

Fortunately, I also know that there are millions on the left who, far from pushing people to the right  (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean) are offering the working class the best hope we've had for decades.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

I'm not convinced a centrist wins an election.

I'm convinced a centrist would lose.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I'm not convinced a centrist wins an election.

It doesn't have to be someone who's a full on centrist. It just needs someone who's not quite as left (or has the public persona of not being so left) than Corbyn (regardless of age). I am 100% convinced Corbyn can't do it. He's seen worse than May by the nation - and the tories will be getting a new manager bouce. I think if labour had a different leader, they would have a 15 point lead in the polls just because the tories are that bad and the alrewrnative wouldn't be so frightenening to a large number of people. In the same way I am afraid of what type of tory government we could get next, a large part of the country, including the swing voters, feel lthat way about Corbyn. Off the front Bench I think Starmer, Burgon, Long-Bailey, Gardener would be a better choice and there's probably 2 or 3 from the back benches who could also make a difference. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

5 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Fair enough.  You're a jaded cynic who can't be arsed, so you're excusing yourself from any action to improve things by pretending "they're all the same" and there's nothing to be done. It's much easier to sulk in a corner, carping at people who still have a spark of life.  Unfortunately, I think there are millions like you.

 

Fortunately, I also know that there are millions on the left who, far from pushing people to the right  (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean) are offering the working class the best hope we've had for decades.

 

The problem is though Mal, there is still enough people on the left pushing people to the right, or making them feel that their opinions and beliefs are centre right at the very least. I’ve experienced it myself. Both in discussions in person and online. Even on here I was called a nazi sympathiser for questioning Antifa. There are also plenty of examples of it in is this thread (me included)