Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Jose Jones]

Unless, or until, Labour is able to win back Scotland, and to a lesser extent, Wales, then the best I think Labour can do at the moment is a coalition with the nationalists.

 

A Blair type figure might be able to win more English votes, but it was Blairism that lost the Scots in the first place.

[Numero Veinticinco]

17 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

it was Blairism that lost the Scots in the first place.

Don't agree with that. Didn't lose it until 2015. 1997 was 56 (up from 50), 2001 was 56, 2005 46 (so under Blair it went from 50 to 46), 2010 41, then in 2015 under Miliband it went from 41 to 1.  Under Corbyn went from 1 to 7.

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Blair losing votes wasn’t because he was a centrist. In fact, the Blair and Brown years were incredibly popular. Take out Iraq and Afghanistan and people would vote for them all day long. 

 

Labour just released a video celebrating 20 years of the minimum wage. Notable by his absence is any mention of the Prime Minister who introduced it. I think this historical revisionism is one of the biggest turn-offs of the Corbyn project.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

Labour just released a video celebrating 20 years of the minimum wage. Notable by his absence is any mention of the Prime Minister who introduced it. I think this historical revisionism is one of the biggest turn-offs of the Corbyn project.

It started way before the Corbyn project, to be honest. It’s an unattractive feature of the left to eat itself, including any leftist progress made by centre-left or centrist politicians. I’ve heard Blair referred to as right wing and far right wing, which is quite clearly just not right. Far from perfect, even outside of the ward, but also far from the devil his demonisers try to make out. I mean, fuck the guy, but Hitler’s lovechild he ain’t. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Unless, or until, Labour is able to win back Scotland, and to a lesser extent, Wales, then the best I think Labour can do at the moment is a coalition with the nationalists.

 

A Blair type figure might be able to win more English votes, but it was Blairism that lost the Scots in the first place.

I don't think it was just blairism (unless you count devolution as a blairism) but I think the Scottish parliament legitimised the SNP as a party that could be trusted and voted for, so allowed an easy transition for labour voters to another left wing party. I think that gene is out of the bottle now and I don't think labour can win Scotland back in the medium term.  In England UKIP tried to appeal to those same disillusioned voters, but it was much harder for them to win them over as they're a bunch of nazi twats. They still had significant success though. 

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Unless, or until, Labour is able to win back Scotland, and to a lesser extent, Wales, then the best I think Labour can do at the moment is a coalition with the nationalists.

 

A Blair type figure might be able to win more English votes, but it was Blairism that lost the Scots in the first place.

Yep. Their patience finally ran out.

[Vincent Vega]

I think there was some Scottish disillusion with Blair's leagacy, but what really fucked Labour in Scotland was the Scottish independence referendum. Seeing Milliband share a platform with Cameron telling the Scots to reject independence planted a seed in Scottish minds that Labour were "red Tories". It was a catestrophic misjudgement by Milliband to campaign with Cameron.

[Boss]

3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

It's also about timing. It's why, in my opinion, it's very difficult to look at the success of a politician in an era where the political and economic circumstances were different generally and conclude that it could be replicated in the current era. These things tend to have a shelf life.

 

In order to get centrism, in my opinion, you need the working class to be doing okay. Yeah, there is creeping privatisation, and the rich are getting richer, but we're doing okay. Blair's vote dropped steadily over his tenure, but there was no great clamour for socialism or anything on the right. Because people were still doing okay, especially in comparison with the Thatcher years. That isn't the case now. The breaking point, to some extent, has been reached. There are fewer and fewer sections of society, or job sectors, that are benefiting from the current economic system. And the desire in these situations is rarely to make small changes back to what you had before. It's for change.

 

Dan Carlin calls it the revenge of the gangrenous finger. When the government turns it's back on certain elements of society, society at large will still function, but it creates a deep seated resentment within that specific isolated group. When enough sections of society feel that way, that's when the pendulum swings and the system gets brought to it's knees by the people.

 

He coined the phrase talking about the Russian Revolution, but he's actually got an episode devoted to Brexit called "The Revenge of the Gangrenous Finger" and it's all about what you've just described.

[Dr Nowt]

Revenge of the gangrenous finger is a great album name all day long.

[moof]

3 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It started way before the Corbyn project, to be honest. It’s an unattractive feature of the left to eat itself, including any leftist progress made by centre-left or centrist politicians. I’ve heard Blair referred to as right wing and far right wing, which is quite clearly just not right. Far from perfect, even outside of the ward, but also far from the devil his demonisers try to make out. I mean, fuck the guy, but Hitler’s lovechild he ain’t. 

Not Hitler’s lovechild, no. Just Thatcher’s wet dream

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, moof said:

Not Hitler’s lovechild, no. Just Thatcher’s wet dream

Do you really believe that? 

[moof]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Do you really believe that? 

Yeah mate

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, moof said:

Yeah mate

Fair enough. For me, it was the true end of Thatcherism when New Labour introduced [insert massive list of social policies and centre-left policies that are against Thatcherism]. 

[Boss]

1 hour ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Revenge of the gangrenous finger is a great album name all day long.

 

Yep, and a great Star Wars title to boot.

[Thoth]

[aRdja]

Another anti-semitism saga incoming I think. 

 

 

The article in question below.

 

[moof]

There’s precisely nothing antisemitic about that well made point 

[cloggypop]

Mad how this shit is always dragged up when Labour are ahead in the polls. 

[Strontium]

It's not new, we discussed Raed Salah and his blood libel/Jews did 9-11 stuff in the Labour leadership election thread.

[Dr Nowt]

For fuck’s sake.

 

 

[skend04]

Tommy Robinson selfies and now this. You have to be concerned if the forces were deployed on the streets post Brexit. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

It's just banter, innit*.... 

 

* sack the dickheads. 

[Jose Jones]

More proof that Corbyn doesn’t command the respect of our brave boys and so should never be leader of the country.  

[Scooby Dudek]

Who would have thought years of calling him a threat to national security would have an effect on the forces ?

 

Just this morning IDS has said Corbyns sole purpose is to do damage to this country.

 

I notice all the right wing nut cases today are unable to say Corbyn without saying Marxist in the same sentence.  

Demonise someone and then express outrage when people react to your message. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Just this morning IDS has said Corbyns sole purpose is to do damage to this country.

Perfectly reasonable shout about somebody who has served in the British Parliament for 35 years. You've got to admire his dedication to damaging the country, but really he deserves criticism for just how little he has managed to damage it in that time.