Kiev Kick Offs

[Dr Nowt]

Making me laugh - not in a good way - hearing the various things from America about not invading other countries "on a phoney pretext" and the like.

 

[VladimirIlyich]

I don't beieve this is US driven .

 

There are two reasosn for this. Firstly the US has far more to lose by a destabilised Ukraine than to gain. Secondly, the Ukraine is simply not on their geopolitical agenda.It doesn't rally matter so long as the country is secure and trade is flowing.

Couldnt disagree more.

The US is the modern British Empire steamrollering through the world,this time by proxy and controlled by right wing fanatics who care about nobody but themselves.

They wont ever be sated until the world is run by US friendly regimes,ie puppets and when I say US friendly I obviously mean rich billionnaires from the US rather than the common person.

[Gnasher]

Anyone watching bbc news? Here we go.

[Dr Nowt]

You wouldn't want to play poker against some of these bastards, would you.

[Stu Monty]

I don't beieve this is US driven .

 

There are two reasosn for this. Firstly the US has far more to lose by a destabilised Ukraine than to gain. Secondly, the Ukraine is simply not on their geopolitical agenda.It doesn't rally matter so long as the country is secure and trade is flowing.

 

How do you explain Victoria Nuland talking about what the new government should look like, including what part Klitchko should be playing, a month before the old one gave way, or the visits of McCain then?

[Strontium]

 

Couldnt disagree more.

The US is the modern British Empire steamrollering through the world,this time by proxy and controlled by right wing fanatics who care about nobody but themselves.

They wont ever be sated until the world is run by US friendly regimes,ie puppets and when I say US friendly I obviously mean rich billionnaires from the US rather than the common person.

 

Brilliant.

 

Russia invades and illegally occupies Ukraine, but it's the US which is empire building in Ukraine.

 

I'd like to say you couldn't make this shit up, but you clearly can.

 

Next time on Loony TV: why it's okay for Russia to illegally occupy other countries, but the worst thing in the world when Israel does it.

[Red Phoenix]

I don't beieve this is US driven .

 

There are two reasosn for this. Firstly the US has far more to lose by a destabilised Ukraine than to gain. Secondly, the Ukraine is simply not on their geopolitical agenda.It doesn't rally matter so long as the country is secure and trade is flowing.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I think they're doing it for several reasons, and they've mainly been listed in the things I've already quoted/linked to as far as I can tell.

 

Brilliant.

 

Russia invades and illegally occupies Ukraine, but it's the US which is empire building in Ukraine.

 

I'd like to say you couldn't make this shit up, but you clearly can.

 

Next time on Loony TV: why it's okay for Russia to illegally occupy other countries, but the worst thing in the world when Israel does it.

Russia don't give a shit about legal/illegal at this stage I don't think. You mentioned "empire building", well that's partly what Russia is responding to by the looks of it. The EU and US have illegally crashed the country anyway as far as they see it, so they're probably going to respond. The current Ukraine mob have placed Neo-Nazis in positions of power, so not sure why you're so bothered anyway.

 

To give one quick example (and yes there's many others.) from even the BBC of all outlets :

 

 

Protest leader Andriy Parubiy has become chairman of the National Security Council (NSC). A co-founder of Svoboda and labelled an extremist by the ousted president, one of Mr Parubiy's deputies at the NSC is Dmytro Yarosh, the head of the far-right paramilitary group Right Sector.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26415508

 

More here :

 

Ukraine Transition Government: Neo-Nazis in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education

 

If this shit happened on UK or US borders, a group "taking" power that included Neo-Nazis that then got placed into high positions, there'd be a response. Strange that we're actually partly supporting Nazis now after the World Wars, but that's how far the UK government has actually fallen I suppose. There should be widespread outrage at who's in power in the Ukraine, not support.

[Section_31]

The slant placed on news outlets on all sides these days just makes it impossible to get a truly accurate picture of what's going on. We are at war with Erasure.

[Stu Monty]

Gents, The Dog won't allow the idea that one of the CIA's main objectives is to meddle in other countries affairs to stand as a given in a conversation without actually presenting him with the classified documents; I fear you may be wasting your time trying to point out that the US might be meddling in Ukranian affairs.

 

Despite actual recorded evidence to the contrary.

[Gnasher]

I suggest we send our royal family over there straight away. The russkies would crumble at the sight.

 

Have you seen all the war medals draped on their chests when they go to the cenotaph every year? Even Sarah Fergurson had a few on before the Royals bombed her out, prince Edward's got medals coming out of his arse, and deservedly so, he was fantastic in that game of its a knockout a few years ago.

[RedinSweden]

The slant placed on news outlets on all sides these days just makes it impossible to get a truly accurate picture of what's going on. We are at war with Erasure.

 

About fucking time. A Little Respect ruined the disco experience of my late teens.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

RedinSweden, on 04 Mar 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

 

About fucking time. A Little Respect ruined the disco experience of my late teens.

sometimes the truth is harder than the pain inside.

[PestiRed]

I suggest we send our royal family over there straight away. The russkies would crumble at the sight.

Have you seen all the war medals draped on their chests when they go to the cenotaph every year? Even Sarah Fergurson had a few on before the Royals bombed her out, prince Edward's got medals coming out of his arse, and deservedly so, he was fantastic in that game of its a knockout a few years ago.

Good idea. Prince William vs Putin. And they should be allowed the weapons they are trained in. I think that gives William an attack helicopter but not sure what Putin gets - possibly an army of KGB spies. They should start out from London and Moscow respectively, tracking each other down across Europe. With cameras attached so we can all watch. Winner gets to fight David Cameron (just because I'd like to see Cameron get his arse kicked).

[Pureblood]

Really quite scray, all this. I don't mind so much when it's some far foreign land but this all a bit close to home with white people involved on both sides.

 

[/noos lite]

[Strontium]

Gents, The Dog won't allow the idea that one of the CIA's main objectives is to meddle in other countries affairs to stand as a given in a conversation without actually presenting him with the classified documents; I fear you may be wasting your time trying to point out that the US might be meddling in Ukranian affairs.

 

Despite actual recorded evidence to the contrary.

No, I've seen the evidence of them meddling in Ukraine. Apparently this Nuland lady was handing out cookies to demonstrators.

 

We need to keep these Biscuits of Mass Destruction out of the wrong hands.

[stringvest]

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I think they're doing it for several reasons, and they've mainly been listed in the things I've already quoted/linked to as far as I can tell.

 

 

Russia don't give a shit about legal/illegal at this stage I don't think. You mentioned "empire building", well that's partly what Russia is responding to by the looks of it. The EU and US have illegally crashed the country anyway as far as they see it, so they're probably going to respond. The current Ukraine mob have placed Neo-Nazis in positions of power, so not sure why you're so bothered anyway.

 

To give one quick example (and yes there's many others.) from even the BBC of all outlets :

 

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26415508

 

More here :

 

Ukraine Transition Government: Neo-Nazis in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education

 

If this shit happened on UK or US borders, a group "taking" power that included Neo-Nazis that then got placed into high positions, there'd be a response. Strange that we're actually partly supporting Nazis now after the World Wars, but that's how far the UK government has actually fallen I suppose. There should be widespread outrage at who's in power in the Ukraine, not support.

sD don't mind the odd neo-nazi if it supports his argument. Using thugs of one flavour or another is the oldest trick in the little blue book.

 

[stringvest]

Gents, The Dog won't allow the idea that one of the CIA's main objectives is to meddle in other countries affairs to stand as a given in a conversation without actually presenting him with the classified documents; I fear you may be wasting your time trying to point out that the US might be meddling in Ukranian affairs.

 

Despite actual recorded evidence to the contrary.

The US is clearly not sneaky enough, being good old boys with shiny hair and white teeth and that. Those dastardly Iranians, however, have got their greasy little hands all over the Middle East. Bomb them all to hell!

 

[JohnnyH]

We’re still neutral everybody so leave us the fuck alone.

[KMD7]

About fucking time. A Little Respect ruined the disco experience of my late teens.

 

 I quite liked Blue Savannah though

[Anubis]

The slant placed on news outlets on all sides these days just makes it impossible to get a truly accurate picture of what's going on. We are at war with Erasure.

 

At war? I thought we were at Posture Level: Bikini Black.

[Stu Monty]

No, I've seen the evidence of them meddling in Ukraine. Apparently this Nuland lady was handing out cookies to demonstrators.

 

We need to keep these Biscuits of Mass Destruction out of the wrong hands.

 

Laughable.

 

Skimming over the actual core contradictions in your worldview, little daft strawman comment, duck, swerve and run away. To be repeated once enough time has passed.

 

You don't think a major purpose of the CIA is to meddle in other countries. You therefore don't get to sit on the grown up table for dinner. Sorry.

[Strontium]

sD don't mind the odd neo-nazi if it supports his argument. Using thugs of one flavour or another is the oldest trick in the little blue book.

 

I have no love for neo Nazis.

 

Not sure what this has to do with Russia illegally invading Ukraine, but since when did anyone other than me even attempt to make sense round here.

[Strontium]

Laughable.

 

Skimming over the actual core contradictions in your worldview, little daft strawman comment, duck, swerve and run away. To be repeated once enough time has passed.

 

You don't think a major purpose of the CIA is to meddle in other countries. You therefore don't get to sit on the grown up table for dinner. Sorry.

Oh shut up you twit.

 

There are no contradictions in my worldview, none whatsoever. I am consistently in favour of freedom, hence why I'd sooner see Ukraine as a member of the EU than the reconstituted Soviet Union.

 

I freely acknowledge the CIA has meddled in countries. You are committing a fallacy by claiming that this therefore means they are always meddling, everywhere.

 

I won't be joining you in your festival of fallacy, if that's all the same.

 

And cut out the dickish misrepresentations while you're at it.

[stringvest]

Semantics dear boy, semantics.  The democratically elected head of state was overthrown in a violent struggle by a ramshackle posse which includes hard right neo-nazis, europhiles, and no doubt plenty of shadowy externally-sourced hired hands, so the Russians, who do apparently have an agreement to station up to 25K soldiers in Crimea (as well as having a key naval base there) are 'illegally invading'?  Meanwhile the UK and the US have offered to help support key infrastructure, such as voting facilities, to ensure that the upcoming elections produce the right result, er, cough, are conducted fairly and openly.

 

what happens if the next exercise in democracy also provides the 'wrong' result?

[PestiRed]

I have no love for neo Nazis.Not sure what this has to do with Russia illegally invading Ukraine, but since when did anyone other than me even attempt to make sense round here.

Firstly you have consistently become more and more right wing since Clegg went into coalition. Making excuses for the privatisation of the NHS and policies that are clearly a million miles from your party's manifesto. So when your party get less votes at the next election than the BNP and you sell out to Griffin for the slightest glimmer of power, then you will truly be in bed with neo-Nazi's. I'd say UKIP but I don't think Farage will demean himself for you people

 

Secondly, the Russian 'invasion' can as easily be legally justified as most things the West are doing. Do you remember a commitment from NATO that they will not get involved in any country that borders Russia? Putin does and he's pretty pissed off about it

 

Thirdly, the Western-backed govt have not only given places to Svoboda in their administration but the Deputy for Security is from the Right Sector. If that doesn't scare you, then you are naive or insane

 

Finally, why do you insist on the good guys/bad guys scenario? It's absolutely clear that everyone on both sides are untrustworthy wankers.