Has Torres's betrayal affected your view of our players?

[zigackly]

Gerrard flirting with Chelsea did it for me, i vowed then I'd never love a player like I loved him and i havent.

 

even though he stayed it was a wake up call and then with Torres I was never truly in love with him

 

That said I can feel myself going down the route with Luis!

 

I've gone full circle on Gerrard. All was forgiven after that FA Cup final, and I probably respect him more these days for having exorcised his demons since Chelsea-gate and committing fully to the club.

 

He's a pretty safe one to love now!

[Section_31]

I never felt that arsed about Gerrard wanting to go to chelsea. He was, what? 25? He'd been the backbone of our side for going on six-seven years, we were at the start of our rebuilding process and - crucially for me - there was a lot going on in the city at the time which, IMO, gave him a more than acceptable excuse to want to get out of dodge.

 

Torres was a different animal, he'd only been here three years. A player who we'd loved not just for his skill but for his attitude. We'd put him on a pedestal because, during our darkest hours in the ownership debacle, he was the one constant source of joy. Then, with the ownership in place and Dalglish in charge, a new era is set to dawn, and what does he do? He becomes a horrible cunt in the Tevez mould seemingly overnight, scowling, sulking twat. Goes to a hated rival which then promptly rubs it in our face with songs, banners and TV appearances, and he basically tells us how we're not what we used to be and how he's glad to be at an important club.

 

Two totally different situations in terms of its effects on me personally.

 

Gerrard wanting to leave was a like a wife you'd been in a relationship with since you were kids, who had done all your washing, cooking and ironing for years with no complaint while you sat on your arse looking for a decent paying job. And to make matters worse everytime she takes the bin out there's some offensive graffiti about her dubbed on your wall from some jealous twat. Then someone comes and offers her a job on a cruise ship well away from it all, with a top wage and a ready made ticket away from all the endless graft and abuse.

 

Torres was like the bird who was way out of your league but friendly with it, she didn't know what she'd got and you thanked god every day she was with you. You'd been down on your luck but you'd just got that dream job and you knew, if she hung in there for a few months you'd be able to give her the things she deserved. But one day she changed, she was looking at herself in the mirror a lot and she wasn't putting out. Everytime you asked her if she was okay she'd just say 'fine'. On the day you're due to go on holiday to the Maldives she tells you she's leaving you and going to be with Leisure Suit Larry the dodgy car dealer, drowning your sorrows down the boozer that night, she turns up with him, decked out in diamonds and a fur coat, classless Larry smiles at you and waves, your ex - still with a miserable fucking boat despite the diamonds - tells the rest of the pub how great it is to finally be in the company of a 'real man'.

[GJM]

I'm still getting over Keegan fucking off to a team that I'd never even heard of and which made me wonder if all German towns were named after fast food. The later discovery that Germany also contained a town called Frankfurt had me going 'see what I mean?' for months.

 

Was not happy that Torres left, for obvious reasons, but it didn't change my views on footballers or my ability to like (or dislike) our players. As others have mentioned, the possibility of Gerrard moving to Chelsea, particularly in 2005, was a much bigger deal for me. I cared about that more than a man of my age probably should.

[King Emlyn]

I couldn't care less about any player these days.

[Biscao]

I never felt that arsed about Gerrard wanting to go to chelsea. He was, what? 25? He'd been the backbone of our side for going on six-seven years, we were at the start of our rebuilding process and - crucially for me - there was a lot going on in the city at the time which, IMO, gave him a more than acceptable excuse to want to get out of dodge.

 

Torres was a different animal, he'd only been here three years. A player who we'd loved not just for his skill but for his attitude. We'd put him on a pedestal because, during our darkest hours in the ownership debacle, he was the one constant source of joy. Then, with the ownership in place and Dalglish in charge, a new era is set to dawn, and what does he do? He becomes a horrible cunt in the Tevez mould seemingly overnight, scowling, sulking twat. Goes to a hated rival which then promptly rubs it in our face with songs, banners and TV appearances, and he basically tells us how we're not what we used to be and how he's glad to be at an important club.

 

Two totally different situations in terms of its effects on me personally.

 

Gerrard wanting to leave was a like a wife you'd been in a relationship with since you were kids, who had done all your washing, cooking and ironing for years with no complaint while you sat on your arse looking for a decent paying job. And to make matters worse everytime she takes the bin out there's some offensive graffiti about her dubbed on your wall from some jealous twat. Then someone comes and offers her a job on a cruise ship well away from it all, with a top wage and a ready made ticket away from all the endless graft and abuse.

 

Torres was like the bird who was way out of your league but friendly with it, she didn't know what she'd got and you thanked god every day she was with you. You'd been down on your luck but you'd just got that dream job and you knew, if she hung in there for a few months you'd be able to give her the things she deserved. But one day she changed, she was looking at herself in the mirror a lot and she wasn't putting out. Everytime you asked her if she was okay she'd just say 'fine'. On the day you're due to go on holiday to the Maldives she tells you she's leaving you and going to be with Leisure Suit Larry the dodgy car dealer, drowning your sorrows down the boozer that night, she turns up with him, decked out in diamonds and a fur coat, classless Larry smiles at you and waves, your ex - still with a miserable fucking boat despite the diamonds - tells the rest of the pub how great it is to finally be in the company of a 'real man'.

 

Fantastic stuff :)

[Reacher]

I never felt that arsed about Gerrard wanting to go to chelsea. He was, what? 25? He'd been the backbone of our side for going on six-seven years, we were at the start of our rebuilding process and - crucially for me - there was a lot going on in the city at the time which, IMO, gave him a more than acceptable excuse to want to get out of dodge.

 

Torres was a different animal, he'd only been here three years. A player who we'd loved not just for his skill but for his attitude. We'd put him on a pedestal because, during our darkest hours in the ownership debacle, he was the one constant source of joy. Then, with the ownership in place and Dalglish in charge, a new era is set to dawn, and what does he do? He becomes a horrible cunt in the Tevez mould seemingly overnight, scowling, sulking twat. Goes to a hated rival which then promptly rubs it in our face with songs, banners and TV appearances, and he basically tells us how we're not what we used to be and how he's glad to be at an important club.

 

Two totally different situations in terms of its effects on me personally.

 

Gerrard wanting to leave was a like a wife you'd been in a relationship with since you were kids, who had done all your washing, cooking and ironing for years with no complaint while you sat on your arse looking for a decent paying job. And to make matters worse everytime she takes the bin out there's some offensive graffiti about her dubbed on your wall from some jealous twat. Then someone comes and offers her a job on a cruise ship well away from it all, with a top wage and a ready made ticket away from all the endless graft and abuse.

 

Torres was like the bird who was way out of your league but friendly with it, she didn't know what she'd got and you thanked god every day she was with you. You'd been down on your luck but you'd just got that dream job and you knew, if she hung in there for a few months you'd be able to give her the things she deserved. But one day she changed, she was looking at herself in the mirror a lot and she wasn't putting out. Everytime you asked her if she was okay she'd just say 'fine'. On the day you're due to go on holiday to the Maldives she tells you she's leaving you and going to be with Leisure Suit Larry the dodgy car dealer, drowning your sorrows down the boozer that night, she turns up with him, decked out in diamonds and a fur coat, classless Larry smiles at you and waves, your ex - still with a miserable fucking boat despite the diamonds - tells the rest of the pub how great it is to finally be in the company of a 'real man'.

 

Fucking quality. Fuck the players, I love your posts.

[Iceman]

Torres was like that chick you fucked in Spain that gives you an STD, blames it on you, tells you she's pregnant and then asks you to send Western Union to pay for the abortion (which gives her an infection so you have to send more money for extra medicine and hospital treatment).

 

Then you see her next week with one of your mates who was also on the same holiday. A fucking slag of the highest order.

[RobbieOR]

Its hard not to idolise Suarez like I did with Torres. I know Ill get emotianally attached to him like I did with Nando and Ill be like a love struck teenager when he does leave.

 

But then again, what fun would being a football fan if you werent able to feel that? You have to take the rough with the smooth.

[Carradona]

That's a superb post, Section.

[Jonny83]

For this reason, I'm all for buying British.

It's fine to bring in a top foreign player or two, but until we start competing and paying top wages then we're never going to keep the best ones.

We're incubating Suarez, Coates and Reina.

 

I don't know about that, regardless of how gutted I was when they left, we were a better team for having the likes of Xabi, Masch and Torres even if just for a few years. Had we shied away from the policy of buying Latin players from the get go we'd likely be sat on 4 European Cups (i.e. without Xabi and Luis), and wouldn't have had that 2008/9 season that made us believe, however briefly, that we might be on the verge of something.

 

Yeah it was shit how it all started to unravel after that, but better to reach for the stars and run out of air at the stratosphere, than reach for the ground and, well, stay on the ground.

[BenR_]

No, but not in the sense you may have meant.

I fully understood well before Torres fucked off that players like him will leave if we are not competitive, and that they put their own ambition well ahead of the club so they WILL fuck us to get their move.

 

I don't like this talk of "betrayal" either.

Why is it perfectly legitimate and acceptable for a club to whore a player around Europe that it considers surplus to requirement even when that player has 3-4 years left on his contract, but not for a player to decide himself that he wants to move because he has bigger ambitions? How is the former not considered betrayal, but the latter is?

Torres didn't betray us, he owed us fuck all, we paid him money and in return he did his job very well for the most part. I could understand it if we were talking about Gerrard, but not Torres.

Edited October 14, 2011 by BenR_

[PaulMcC]

Buy British? What will that change?

 

Didn't Souness fuck off abroad for more money?

[Jonny83]

Buy British? What will that change?

 

Didn't Souness fuck off abroad for more money?

 

And Keegan?

[brucespanner]

Buy British? What will that change?

 

Didn't Souness fuck off abroad for more money?

 

In nineteeneightyfuckingfour!

 

The Italian league can barely afford the Brylcreem needed to make it an attractive league, never mind some moustacioed midfield enforcer with a sideline in underwear modelling.

[Original202]

No, we get far too involved with players of whom we have no right to show the same level of devotion to us. The realisation that they're just players doing a job dawned years ago.

 

I still hold a romantic view about local players having an extra loyalty but I don't see any reason why players who didn't support the club growing up should show any extra loyalty to the club. Would you if they were them, or if you played for say, Aston Villa? You'd look after your own interests.

 

What annoyed me about Torres was his half arsed performances. Giving up on a club is one thing, but doing it on the pitch is another thing altogether.

[Jonny83]

In nineteeneightyfuckingfour!

 

The Italian league can barely afford the Brylcreem needed to make it an attractive league, never mind some moustacioed midfield enforcer with a sideline in underwear modelling.

 

That's true, and my example is even more dated.

 

However it shows that British players have no in-built extra loyalty, unless they are an actual fan, whether it be boyhood or in Carragher's case "converted".

 

Andy Carroll (Newcastle fan), Jordan Henderson (Sunderland, I presume?), Stewart Downing (Middlesborough I guess), Charlie Adam (actually not sure but I've heard nothing about him being a red) and the like will have no more built-in affinity for us than the likes of Torres, Reina or Suarez, at least our departed foreign stars did, with the notable exception of Torres, have the decency to fuck off abroad when they fucked off, less chance of that happening with a British player. If Torres had gone to Barca or Real (fat chance of the latter I know), I wouldn't feel half as bad as him going to the rentboys.

 

EDIT: I should probably add I have absolutely no problem with our new British lads not being LFC fans, if you want to come play for us I don't give a fuck who you support, but let's not pretend they'd be guaranteed not to behave how Torres did if in the same situation just because they were born on these shores.

[Iceman]

They're just mercenary bastards !!!

 

[The Dude Abides]

It has, yes. Love Luis still and all that, but I've already accepted that in all likelihood, he won't be at the club for much longer than three years in total. He should never be sold to another English club though, that was really what rankled with what Torres did.

[G Richards]

On the one hand, what Torres did has slightly affected my view of our top players, as I half expect the like of Suarez to show up at Real Madrid or Barcelona at some point. But on the other hand, it's up to us to get to the top and give our players no reason to leave - at least no reason to leave based on sporting ambition (there may be cultural or financial reasons).

 

Torres left at a time when we were a shambles as a club. If only he would have kept a good attitude and saw it through, but he couldn't manage that, so its onwards and upwards for us and he won't be part of that.

 

If we want to challenge for the biggest prizes and keep the likes of Suarez and hopefully add one or two more like him, then I fully expect a big naming rights deal on a new stadium, plus the sort of move that Ian Ayre made this past week, plus Lebron James popping over to smile and wave...

[PaulMcC]

If any player thought he couldn't compete for trophies with us, and they were good enough to play for top teams, they'd leave for a team challenging for trophies.

 

Gerrard is a lifelong Liverpool fan a nd captain and he very nearly left twice.

[Iceman]

For me it would be easy to play for my boyhood club knowing me and my loved ones were financially set for the rest of my life.

 

Trophies would be a bonus. I am not knocking any players right to want to win trophies, I just don't get the disloyalty nowadays.

 

Torres could have easily stayed for a while to see what Suarez and him could have done.

[xerxes]

The way that us fans view our club and the way that paid professional sportsmen view that same club will always differ.

 

We should have sold Torres earlier - but would have got less money for him, so it is an uneasy call.

 

The final full year of Rafa/G&H was a shambles, no-one could blame any player for wanting out of that madhouse - for us fans there is no such option.

 

For decades we were spoilt with no player having any reason to move on for money, or honours, that has now changed, and it takes some getting used to.

[Section_31]

The way that us fans view our club and the way that paid professional sportsmen view that same club will always differ.

 

We should have sold Torres earlier - but would have got less money for him, so it is an uneasy call.

 

The final full year of Rafa/G&H was a shambles, no-one could blame any player for wanting out of that madhouse - for us fans there is no such option.

 

For decades we were spoilt with no player having any reason to move on for money, or honours, that has now changed, and it takes some getting used to.

 

As I said earlier though, for my money this was not just about a player wanting to leave to pursue success, it was about watching someone you thought was a top lad and a genuine lover of the game, slowly be corrupted and changed by the worst qualities of football. He transformed from a boy filled with youthful exuberance into some kind of pension number cruncher with a miserable fucking face seemingly overnight. Thinking back about the whole thing, the general decline, the refusal to perform, his deadline day move and his betrayal on chelsea TV, it was hands down my most soul-destroying experience of football.

 

 

[silverlining]

As I said earlier though, for my money this was not just about a player wanting to leave to pursue success, it was about watching someone you thought was a top lad and a genuine lover of the game, slowly be corrupted and changed by the worst qualities of football. He transformed from a boy filled with youthful exuberance into some kind of pension number cruncher with a miserable fucking face seemingly overnight. Thinking back about the whole thing, the general decline, the refusal to perform, his deadline day move and his betrayal on chelsea TV, it was hands down my most soul-destroying experience of football.

 

"Corruption?"

"Betrayal?"

"Soul-destroying"?

 

Good job you're not the hysterical, over-emotional type who doesn't ever let things get out of proportion.

 

And as for Torres, if we'd kept players like Xabi and Masher - improved the team instead of signing players like Keane and Aquilani - and not made him play with the likes of Lucas and Insua every week, I don't think Torres would have been "corrupted".

 

He left Liverpool (and I will accept that he did decide to leave before he ACTUALLY left) because we were in a fucking mess, had a shit team, no money and a cunt for a manger and cunts for owners. He was lied to and made promises we didn't keep. We almost FORCED him to stop loving us.

 

And he joined Chelsea because he - correctly - decided that they were in a better position to win trophies and be successful, given they have more money and a better team and were in Europe every single year.

 

I totally understood his reasons for joining Chelsea, and I can also see how obviously conflicted and sad he was about leaving Liverpool.

 

But if I was him, I'd have left too. That's not to say I don't bear him any ill will, or want him to be successful. Fuck that, I hope he has a fucking miserable and trophyless time at Chelsea.

[VladimirIlyich]

Its a bit unfair to single out foreign players as bandwagon jumpers,Stevie's head was also nearly turned in recent years.

 

Once we become a real force again and play in the CL regularly again then players will sign for us more readily,British and foreign.