N'gog: shoving it up the doubters arses?

[PaulMcC]

I don't think anyone is going over the top but i think he took some unfair stick very quickly in to his Liverpool career.

 

He's got better all the time and is at good player now.

[jackofdk]

he shouldn't be anywhere near any team that has aspirations to win league titles.

 

A bit rich since a totally untried 17 year old who doesn't look better than Ngog at the moment basically won the mancs the title last year.

[Trucker Paddy]

Could be a player this lad, needs to work on his 1st touch a bit more, but could become a very important player for us, decent bit of scouting there, I dont say that very often with us !!!!!

[harryo63]

hes already a better player than welbeck or macheda of united.

 

this is getting silly now. idswop him for one of those 2 now

[Barrington Womble]

I think people need to be a bit careful with N'Gog. He's doing alright but people are in danger of over-estimating his performances. As well as the good goals he's scored, there has been an equal amount of fuck up's; last night's air shot and the miss at Sunderland spring to mind.

 

Caution would be my watch-word with the lad.

 

that's how bad he is, I actually forgot the air shot to

go with the air headers. He's a fucking awful player and there's no way he'll have a career anywhere near the top level in 2 years. He wouldn't even get in the Stoke team now.

[llego]

Gonna be some sore assed doubters around.

 

Brilliant

[BatChainPuller]

Improving with every game but started from a very low base point. I think he will be decent but can't see him improving beyond third choice striker (if we bought a decent second choice).

[RoboRiise]

that's how bad he is, I actually forgot the air shot to go with the air headers. He's a fucking awful player and there's no way he'll have a career anywhere near the top level in 2 years. He wouldn't even get in the Stoke team now.

 

 

I reckon you're being very harsh on him there Barry. I think that any young striker coming into our side has a few very obvious problems to contend with. One would be that when you're used to seeing a player like Torres, anyone will look average at best, although I suppose that's offset to a degree by seeing shit like Voronin. Another is that we perhaps have a slightly skewed perspective of what can be expected of 20 year old strikers in general because in recent memory we've been blessed with both Owen and God, who were exceptional talents in every way (finishers like Robbie in particular are once in a generation players) but they still provide a subconscious benchmark.

 

Ngog is nowhere near that kind of level but for £1.5m I didn't expect that he would be. I said earlier in the season that he looked to have kicked on from last year and I still see him improving - perhaps that's because I'm looking for positives in his game rather than negatives though.

 

There's an obvious and lazy comparison that can be drawn between him and Babel, but I'm feeling pretty lazy tonight so I'll run with it. I think Ngog comes out of any comparison well, which isn't bad to start with considering he cost less than a seventh of his fee. They are similar in that like with Babel when he first came, I'd say I can see the raw materials in Ngog but there is definitely some assembly required. I've seen good examples of skill, technique and finishing from him as well as the air headers and at least he keeps his eyes open, unlike one of our alumni I mentioned above did at that age.

 

The difference is that with hindsight, I think Babel though he'd made it when he arrived here with that £11m price tag round his neck whereas Ngog, rightly, looks like he thinks he's earned an opportunity so far and that's all. The big thing Ngog looks to have in his favour as far as I'm concerned is that there's a football brain in there. His physical strength and his skill levels might not always allow him to do what he wants to yet, but he at least looks like he knows what he should be doing and he tries to deliver it.

 

That single fact puts him ahead of Babel in my book, despite Babel's international caps and the rest of it, because you can work on skills and strength but you can't start teaching the game to a lad in his twenties and when you've paid £11m for him, you shouldn't fucking need to either. On top of that, Ngog looks like he wants to improve. Babel looks like he either doesn't think he needs to, or like he couldn't give a shit. As for Voronin, if I had my way he'd never pull on our shirt again as long as Ngog is fit, despite Voronin being picked in the Gerrard role because he's more suited for it in terms of experience since a) he's 30 and b) he often plays in midfield for the Ukraine national team. Ngog is ten times the player that Voronin is because he's only going to stay at the same level or improve, whereas Voronin looks to be going backwards in every sense.

 

The thing is, for £1.5m we can afford for Ngog to never develop into anything other than a fourth choice striker. Personally, I think he might surprise a few of us.

 

There is one other point I'd make. Based on his first team outings so far, Spearing shouldn't be anywhere near the team either - do we write him off now as well, or does he get the chance to improve and if so, why the different treatment? I look back at Gerrard when he was twenty - if you'd have told me that he was going to be a good solid player for us and would be worth a place in the team for years to come, I'd have agreed with you. If however, you'd have told me he was going to develop into one of the best attacking midfield players in Europe, if not the world, I'd have suggested you get back on the Sunshine bus and start licking the windows.

 

Players develop at different rates, some do so steadily, some put on a burst and do in a season what others have taken four to achieve, some never do it. Time will tell.

 

Oh and the dive was a bit shithouse but let's see if he learns from it. I'll tell you this though - if we're in fifth place at the end of the season but make the FA Cup final, we're 1-0 down with five minutes to go and someone tackles Gerrard in the area, he'll go down like he's been fucking machine gunned. Won't he? Lets keep a sense of perspective.

Edited November 10, 2009 by RoboRiise

[Tom R]

A bit rich since a totally untried 17 year old who doesn't look better than Ngog at the moment basically won the mancs the title last year.

 

What?

Rafael Benitex himself played a far bigger part in the mancs winning another title than that Macheda bellend did!

[llego]

What?

Rafael Benitex himself played a far bigger part in the mancs winning another title than that Macheda bellend did!

 

That is such a ridiculously stupid statement it blows my mind.

[fowler9]

What?

Rafael Benitex himself played a far bigger part in the mancs winning another title than that Macheda bellend did!

 

 

by beating them twice........

[fowlerisgod]

He looked brilliant against Birmingham for the first 30 mins and last 20. Some of the runs he was doing were excellent.

 

I think he has the potential to be a really good player. He scores when he has the chance and that's what we need/want.

[Tom R]

That is such a ridiculously stupid statement it blows my mind.

 

Really?

 

I'd say the number of points Rafa pissed up the wall were far more mumerous than the 4 points that greasy looking cock won for them.

[GJM]

Have to admit that I was/am a doubter when it comes to N'Gog. His performances until v.recently suggested that he would end up as 'a solid pro' (not quite sure what the phrase means, but anyway) in a decent European League (Belgium, France, Holland etc), but that he would never make it into our first team on a regular basis.

 

He's getting his chances now because our first team squad is in a bit of a mess. That's the only reason. And he's done okay. I thought he did well against Birmingham, and his goal return is impressive, although it is way too early to judge whether this is a sign of a real poacher or somebdy who has just got a bit fortunate and things will soon start to even out for him on the avg goals per minute front.

 

I would love him to prove my doubts unfounded and for him to go on to great things with us. I don't believe it will happen though. Not yet, at least.

[redinoz]

He seems to get into the right place at the right time. Which is the mark of a good footballer. His finishing can only get better. I hope in time he proves everyone wrong. I think he's ace.

[OnizukaEikichi]

He played well against a 'shit' side that we couldnt beat.

[zigackly]

Gonna see a lot more of him this season, better get used to it.

[Redshadow]

Yes Barry Wom - Ngog's utter crap isn't he? But then what do you expect when he's got idiots like you expecting him to be some sort of cross between Cristiano Ronaldo, the young Paul Scholes and the REAL Brazilian Ronaldo at his age rolled into one (even if he was a mixture of all the above you STILL wouldn't be happy would you? You'd STILL find faults with him somewhere) FFS - he's a kid - just a young, raw kid learning his trade in a foreign country and currently understudy for the best striker on the planet - Mainly as Kuyt seems to have forgotten entirely A:) WHERE the goal is or B:) WHAT position we originally bought him to play - striker;

 

Anyway, with all that in mind I'd say 4 goals from what? 6 appearances (2 in the league cup and FOUR in the league) is a fantastic ratio - ESPECIALLY when one of those goals is against a defence in Man U's that didn't let in a goal in nearly half their games last season - He certainly knows where the goal is as he scores (both this and last season) his fair share of tap-in goals/scruffy on the line finishes or like yesterday - ending the doubt when the balls lashed in and pinballed around the area - ALL of which are things we've missed from any striker other than Torres since one certain young man with the initials M O lefts us back in 2004.

 

Oh yes and he's ALREADY scored twice as many goals as said prodigal son that many (no doubt including You) screamed that we should bring back or pay dearly for missing - one Michael Owen - for it is he of whom I speak. Don't hear you mentioning THAT stat' now do we? Abysmal. IF you're going to build an argument against a player whose only crime is to be young and learning his trade at Liverpool then at least make it convincing because as it stands - the facts totally refute your 'argument' and leave it looking like your absurd condemnation of N'gog - a player let's not forget who DID score for us last night AND save us from even more media s*it by doing what Ronaldo did for the Mancs regularly until he left (Olympic standard diving) and getting a match saving penalty in a game we should have cruised - That condemnation like your argument is and looks utterly pathetic.

 

IF you really HAVE to have a go at our team then why not lash Skrtel, Mascherano AND Insua all of whom were terrible last night along with Kuyt who was worse than all of them - especially when the first three were mainly responsible for us trailing in a match the opposition should never have registered on the scoresheet in. Don't hear that though do we? No, just have a go at the youngster who saved our hides instead - it's FAR easier and truly awful from a LFC 'fan'. No wonder our supports reputation gone down in the eyes of the world if we turn on our own as easily as that - Who needs enemies when we've got 'friends' like you? And it's sad that it's come to this - Think on this - you'd probably have moaned even MORE if Ngog HADN'T gone down and we'd lost wouldn't you? But you'll never admit it and that alone renders your whole so-called argument invalid.

 

Fact is breaking the rules has benefitted Man U regularly enough since they started winning the league - likewise Chelsea and Arsenal (anyone remember Robben's tendency to dive? What about Pires 'dive' v Portsmouth in 2003 now That WAS pathetic or Ronaldo's even worse swan dive at the Riverside in 2006 when Utd won 1 - 2 or the one that caused a brawl when he got them a penalty v Boro' in the FA Cup in 2007 - ALL of those dives were far worse than last nights) Why shouldn't we do it? (and when you think of the penalties we've been denied down the years from Tiago's infamous handball in 2005 to any number against Man U - including one given and then rescinded at OT in 1994 and a stick on penalty at Anfield where Ferdinand AND Howard brought down Pongolle in 2003 which was identical to the one that got THEM the draw after it WAS given in the 'Cantona Comeback' game in 1995 where they were losing 1 - 2 to us but didn't lose after Giggs went down);

 

When you think of THOSE - you wonder why we didn't cotton on and start copying the others FAR earlier. It's about time we had some ahem luck when it came to penalties like that going our way - in fact it's WAY past time but I bet we get very few now this season after last night and the subsequent witchhunt (which funnily enough happened with Pongolle as well when he started looking like doing well for us in 2003 but NOT with the serial divers Ronaldo or Eduardo - funny that - hmm?) The media will try and make DAMN sure of that as we CAN'T have LFC benefitting from dodgy penalties can we? Not when that's the province of paragons of virtue like the men from Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge - The media just don't like it now the boots suddenly on the other foot for once - well they may soon have to get used to it - its WAY past time LFC started playing by ALL the same rules the other Big 4 teams do and long may it continue................................

Edited November 11, 2009 by Redshadow

[Strontium]

I like him. Decent and improving, as last night's performance showed.

 

3 goals and 1 assist in 134 minutes of league football this season, you can't argue with that, really.

[2pak]

I see another Lucas type thread blooming here. Notably our squad is now well riddled with mid level players splitting opinions. I am yet to be convinced of his talents but he has played decent his last two-three outings.

[ZonkoVille77]

For fuck sake, some real bollox being uttered here. Give the lad a chance. He hasn't had time to prove his worth yet and already some people are battering him. What do people expect of him? To have scored 4 hat tricks with man of the match performances? Bollox.

 

If in 2 years he hasn't made it then have a go. So much for giving encouragement to the younger lads. Fuck sake.

[DT]

Yes Barry Wom - Ngog's utter crap isn't he? But then what do you expect when he's got idiots like you expecting him to be some sort of cross between Cristiano Ronaldo, the young Paul Scholes and the REAL Brazilian Ronaldo at his age rolled into one (even if he was a mixture of all the above you STILL wouldn't be happy would you? You'd STILL find faults with him somewhere) FFS - he's a kid - just a young, raw kid learning his trade in a foreign country and currently understudy for the best striker on the planet - Mainly as Kuyt seems to have forgotten entirely A:) WHERE the goal is or B:) WHAT position we originally bought him to play - striker;

 

Anyway, with all that in mind I'd say 4 goals from what? 6 appearances (2 in the league cup and FOUR in the league) is a fantastic ratio - ESPECIALLY when one of those goals is against a defence in Man U's that didn't let in a goal in nearly half their games last season - He certainly knows where the goal is as he scores (both this and last season) his fair share of tap-in goals/scruffy on the line finishes or like yesterday - ending the doubt when the balls lashed in and pinballed around the area - ALL of which are things we've missed from any striker other than Torres since one certain young man with the initials M O lefts us back in 2004.

 

Oh yes and he's ALREADY scored twice as many goals as said prodigal son that many (no doubt including You) screamed that we should bring back or pay dearly for missing - one Michael Owen - for it is he of whom I speak. Don't hear you mentioning THAT stat' now do we? Abysmal. IF you're going to build an argument against a player whose only crime is to be young and learning his trade at Liverpool then at least make it convincing because as it stands - the facts totally refute your 'argument' and leave it looking like your absurd condemnation of N'gog - a player let's not forget who DID score for us last night AND save us from even more media s*it by doing what Ronaldo did for the Mancs regularly until he left (Olympic standard diving) and getting a match saving penalty in a game we should have cruised - That condemnation like your argument is and looks utterly pathetic.

 

IF you really HAVE to have a go at our team then why not lash Skrtel, Mascherano AND Insua all of whom were terrible last night along with Kuyt who was worse than all of them - especially when the first three were mainly responsible for us trailing in a match the opposition should never have registered on the scoresheet in. Don't hear that though do we? No, just have a go at the youngster who saved our hides instead - it's FAR easier and truly awful from a LFC 'fan'. No wonder our supports reputation gone down in the eyes of the world if we turn on our own as easily as that - Who needs enemies when we've got 'friends' like you? And it's sad that it's come to this - Think on this - you'd probably have moaned even MORE if Ngog HADN'T gone down and we'd lost wouldn't you? But you'll never admit it and that alone renders your whole so-called argument invalid.

 

Fact is breaking the rules has benefitted Man U regularly enough since they started winning the league - likewise Chelsea and Arsenal (anyone remember Robben's tendency to dive? What about Pires 'dive' v Portsmouth in 2003 now That WAS pathetic or Ronaldo's even worse swan dive at the Riverside in 2006 when Utd won 1 - 2 or the one that caused a brawl when he got them a penalty v Boro' in the FA Cup in 2007 - ALL of those dives were far worse than last nights) Why shouldn't we do it? (and when you think of the penalties we've been denied down the years from Tiago's infamous handball in 2005 to any number against Man U - including one given and then rescinded at OT in 1994 and a stick on penalty at Anfield where Ferdinand AND Howard brought down Pongolle in 2003 which was identical to the one that got THEM the draw after it WAS given in the 'Cantona Comeback' game in 1995 where they were losing 1 - 2 to us but didn't lose after Giggs went down);

 

When you think of THOSE - you wonder why we didn't cotton on and start copying the others FAR earlier. It's about time we had some ahem luck when it came to penalties like that going our way - in fact it's WAY past time but I bet we get very few now this season after last night and the subsequent witchhunt (which funnily enough happened with Pongolle as well when he started looking like doing well for us in 2003 but NOT with the serial divers Ronaldo or Eduardo - funny that - hmm?) The media will try and make DAMN sure of that as we CAN'T have LFC benefitting from dodgy penalties can we? Not when that's the province of paragons of virtue like the men from Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge - The media just don't like it now the boots suddenly on the other foot for once - well they may soon have to get used to it - its WAY past time LFC started playing by ALL the same rules the other Big 4 teams do and long may it continue................................

 

Bonjour David.

[aws]

He's one of those players the ball seems to find in the area. Whether it's luck or judgement I don't really care as he also seems to finish off a reasonable percentage of chances. I've watched him in reserve games, under-21 internationals and now in the first team and I would say I've seen him score in most games I've watched him.

 

He's developing nicely into a great shit-striker.

[hamstrung]

He's developing nicely into a great shit-striker.

 

There you go. 4 pages in. The perfect description.

[Steve Holt]

Despite the form so far this season I'm glad its Rafa thats manager and not some of you. Fuckin hell. You slag off a player who has done nothing but try and who has actually scored a good number of goals for his age and place within the squad. Its pathetic. You're so transparent. We can all see that you just look for things and people to bash for no reason other than to satisfy your own egos.