A thread about a man named Xabi

[Dicko]

Here you go Dicko.... I didn't realise we were going back 70 years to try and back Rafa now but I've tried to explain the 5 year theory and have said that MOST managers win it within 5 years unless they inherit 2nd division teams.

 

Busby - 7 years - Manchester United were runners-up in the league in 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1951, and won the FA Cup in 1948, before winning the league championship in 1952

 

Cullis - 6 years - Challenged for the league several times before winning it.

Shankly - 5 years - inherited a 2nd division tam.

Catterick - 2 years

Nicholson - 4 years

Revie - 8 years - Inherited a 2nd division team.

Mercer - 3 years

Mee - 5 years -

Clough (Derby) 7 years - Inherited a lowe division club.

Paisley - 2 years

Clough (Forest) - 3.5 years

Kendall - 4 years

Fagan - 1 year

Dalglish - 1 year

George Graham - 3 years

Wilkinson - 4 years

Ferguson - 7 years - An exception to the norm

Wenger - 2 years

Mourinho - 1 year

 

You prove my point - thanks Dicko.

 

No you prove mine and everyone else's, you compare Rafa to other league winning managers and place no interest on context whatsoever, so I completely prove you wrong and all of a sudden context comes into it.

 

Rafa isn't as good as Wenger because he hasn't won the league, well du'h, Wenger had a far superior squad.

 

Rafa isn't as good as Mourinho because he hasn't won the league in his first season well knock me sideways Mourinho inherited a champions league semi finalist knocking out Arsenal in the process and finishing second only 5 points behind a team that went unbeaten for 38 games, and in the process spent more than the rest of the top three combined.

 

 

Context in your case? Only when it fucking suits you.

This exchange is over.

[Whelan]

I am only interested in challenging for the league and I am happy so no problems from me on the current squad. However, in order to hail "greatness" on any team (as some are doing on the current one) it has to win something. Do you disagree? If so why?

 

I want a straight answer mate, not an answer with a question.

 

Yes, you are right. Although the word is quite flexible i.e. I had a great night out, doesn't mean you got your end away but you had a good night out all the same.

 

I.e. Xabi Alonso is a great midfielder. Despite not winning the league!

 

Has he gone yet?

[Cardie]

I am only interested in challenging for the league and I am happy so no problems from me on the current squad. However, in order to hail "greatness" on any team (as some are doing on the current one) it has to win something. Do you disagree? If so why?

 

I want a straight answer mate, not an answer with a question.

 

Because questions mean you have another hoop to jump through and something else to remember so you don't contradict yourself...or flat out lie about...to try and prove a point.

 

This is the best squad we've had under Benitez and the one with the most chance of success, simple.

[Whelan]

This is the best squad we've had under Benitez and the one with the most chance of success, simple.

 

I'd say it is the best team we have had for 20 years! In fact I would suggest (although hesitantly) it is better than the team that won the league in 1990!

[ToxtethTerror]

This is the best squad we've had under Benitez and the one with the most chance of success, simple.

 

But we have had "success" with other squads under Rafa though haven't we? You forgetting Istanbul and Cardiff?

[Cardie]

But we have had "success" with other squads under Rafa though haven't we? You forgetting Istanbul and Cardiff?

 

Funny, can't remember you being overly complimentary to the players Houllier bought yet now they're better than the players Benitez have.

 

Would you class the squad that won 5 trophies in a season under Houllier the best we had then?

[INTORRESTING]

I get the impression that if we win number 19 some will immediately say: " we should have won it earlier!"

[Cardie]

I get the impression that if we win number 19 some will immediately say: " we should have won it earlier!"

 

Always remember it's in spite of Benitez not because of him.

[silverlining]

But we have had "success" with other squads under Rafa though haven't we? You forgetting Istanbul and Cardiff?

 

Right, so now you're implying that Benitez would be more successful with a worse squad, as long as those players weren't bought by him?

[ToxtethTerror]

Would you class the squad that won 5 trophies in a season under Houllier the best we had then?

 

Not at all because they were all trophies that the major clubs had no interest in winning. We were swimming in small club territory at the time.

 

You suggested that the current squad has the most chance of success, but Rafa has had success alerady hasn't he? How do you measure succes?

[ToxtethTerror]

Right, so now you're implying that Benitez would be more successful with a worse squad, as long as those players weren't bought by him?

 

No. I am suggesting that Rafa has had more success with players not bought by him than with his own. Its just a statement, a bit of trivia if you like.

[silverlining]

Not at all because they were all trophies that the major clubs had no interest in winning. We were swimming in small club territory at the time.

 

You suggested that the current squad has the most chance of success, but Rafa has had success alerady hasn't he? How do you measure succes?

 

Arsenal had no interest in winning the FA cup? That's why they let Owen score those two late goals?

 

And it was certainly obvious to anyone at the Roma or Barca games that neither club really fancied the UEFA cup that season.

 

You clattering fucking imbecile.

[Cardie]

You suggested that the current squad has the most chance of success, but Rafa has had success alerady hasn't he? How do you measure succes?

 

Chance, CHANCE.

 

I'm judging it by the same criteria as you and your red cafe brethren, the League is the 'bread and butter'.

[Duff Man]

Not at all because they were all trophies that the major clubs had no interest in winning. We were swimming in small club territory at the time.

 

You suggested that the current squad has the most chance of success, but Rafa has had success alerady hasn't he? How do you measure succes?

 

You should tell that to Arsenal. And Barca. Oh and Roma too. You do yourself no favours with these silly, silly statements, Rash.

[kop]

First it was world football and 3 years:

Name me a manager in world football (except Ferguson) who took more than 3 years to win the league. (Those that inherited teams in their top divisions that is so Howard Wilkinson etc don't count as they inherited 2nd division teams and would need more than 3 years to do that miracle!)

 

3 years repeated:

Ferguson doesn't count because in the law of statistics he being one of only one or two is insignificant.

 

Its like saying; of a sample 1000 people 999 hate England, but we MUST count that one person. I'd say the insight from it was clear but there will always be pedants chatting shite and haggling over insignificance like you are doing now.

 

Anyway, come on name me someone other than Ferguson who took more than 3 years to win the league.

 

Now it's not "in world football" anymore, not even Europe. Big leagues doesn't include Germany and France either by the way (can't be bothered documenting that, but it's there trust me):

I am thinking of the big leagues and big clubs (like we are) not minor leagues mate who have managers there for years with no expectations. You are just being pedantic.

 

As for Irureta; he won it in 2000, his 2nd full season in charge - and what an achievment that was.

 

Now we're limiting ourselves in time. Not only that, it has becomed 5 years instead of 3:

Here you go Dicko.... I didn't realise we were going back 70 years to try and back Rafa now but I've tried to explain the 5 year theory and have said that MOST managers win it within 5 years unless they inherit 2nd division teams.

You prove my point - thanks Dicko.

 

This is where I could've said "I rest my case" in a court room, but I know it won't end here.

[ToxtethTerror]

the League is the 'bread and butter'.

 

But we haven't won the league? Although I am happy we are challenging.

 

How do you define "success"?

[Cardie]

But we haven't won the league? Although I am happy we are challenging.

 

How do you define "success"?

 

Can't remember saying we had, I did imply this was the squad with the greatest chance of delivering that success but as usual your habit of stripping away what's been said and applying your own interpretation has kicked in.

[Whelan]

But we haven't won the league? Although I am happy we are challenging.

 

How do you define "success"?

 

At this moment i'd define it as understanding what your bloody point was?

[ToxtethTerror]

First it was world football and 3 years:

 

 

3 years repeated:

 

 

Now it's not "in world football" anymore, not even Europe. Big leagues doesn't include Germany and France either by the way (can't be bothered documenting that, but it's there trust me):

 

 

Now we're limiting ourselves in time. Not only that, it has becomed 5 years instead of 3:

 

 

This is where I could've said "I rest my case" in a court room, but I know it won't end here.

 

Not bored yet? The 5 year thing was introduced by Code72 and people were referring to that so I did to.

 

Lets leave it to something recent and something easier defined... how about:

 

In the last 20 years... Name me a manager of La Liga, PL or Serie A team who has won the league for the first time after being in charge for more than 3 years. (except teams inherited in the 2nd division)...

[zigackly]

At this moment i'd define it as understanding what your bloody point was?

 

Treasure this rep. It's the only one you'll get from me today.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Not bored yet? The 5 year thing was introduced by Code72 and people were referring to that so I did to.

 

Lets leave it to something recent and something easier defined... how about:

 

In the last 20 years... Name me a manager of La Liga, PL or Serie A team who has won the league for the first time after being in charge for more than 3 years. (except teams inherited in the 2nd division)...

 

Talk about designing a loaded question

 

No doubt you'll be proved wrong and move the goal posts again

 

Please for the love of God, drop it

[Roy Hobbs]

What about this Rash

 

How many titles have been won by managers after being in charge for 3 years or more?

[Menc]

Not bored yet? The 5 year thing was introduced by Code72 and people were referring to that so I did to.

 

Lets leave it to something recent and something easier defined... how about:

 

In the last 20 years... Name me a manager of La Liga, PL or Serie A team who has won the league for the first time after being in charge for more than 3 years. (except teams inherited in the 2nd division)...

 

Ancelotti.

[zigackly]

In the last 20 years... Name me a manager of La Liga, PL or Serie A team who has won the league for the first time after being in charge for more than 3 years. (except teams inherited in the 2nd division)...

 

... on a Thursday when it was raining?

[Whelan]

This has now become a Tom Clancy novel!