Mon 2 Jan 17:30 Brentford vs Liverpool

[Red Shift]

2 minutes ago, an tha said:

No we aren't playing heavy metal football anymore but the shape of the team and how it is set up is still the same as when we were and that is the problem.....we are asking Harvey Elliott today to do what Jordan Henserson was doing in 2019 and he simply can't do it.....

 

We haven't adapted properly at all to what we have, that is why the gaps, the time and the space are there and that is why they are being exploited week in week out.

We can single out a lot of the attack and midfield. The lack of pressing starts with the strikers and continues with the midfield. We do still overturn the ball in midfield, but our front three are far less effective at it. Diaz had been right on it, to be fair, and we are really missing his intensity. That is a very unfortunate injury so early on in his Liverpool career. So many of our recent signings have been unlucky (?) - Thiago, Jota, Diaz.

 

I think the 4-3-3 with 3 dynamic strikers all hounding the opposition is the point, but no, it’s not happening, agreed. The first 20 minutes of a game was where we excelled. We never do that now. That is on Klopp and training staff, yes. 
 

However, that’s only one issue. 
The other massive issue is our inability to play quick incisive passes at pace w/o fucking it up and giving the ball away, where all of a sudden, we’re totally exposed because our core tactic is attacking full backs playing high with no cover. THAT is why I would like to see a 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 with Trent’s skills used in Midfield, with the extra defender behind him. Robbo is far more dynamic than Trent currently and seems to be able to do what is asked of him. 
 

In that second half, Naby made a difference in midfield for Elliot. I thought he played well, looking to do what neither Fabinho or Thiago seem to want to do…push forward at pace with incisive passing. He set Trent up on a plate for his left foot, but Trent dithered.

 

Problems problems.

 

 

[Red74]

I know I’ve harped on about it before but players just stop listening cos they know it’s cheaper to replace you than them. 
 

Rinus Michels said back in the day that you’ve got 3 years to keep players interested before you need to shake them up as they’ve heard everything you’ve got to say.
 

There was a documentary made with the mancs behind the scenes back in the day and fergies doing his team talk, the day before they’re playing us I think, and the players are yawning and schmeichal says we’ve heard all this before. Wasn’t long after a few of them were sold and replaced and a new generation of cunts who came into win for them. 
 

These players will lose faith in klopp a lot quicker than he will in them. Shake them up jurgs. On the pitch and off it. Only Robbo & the keeper should be safe from harm.

[an tha]

3 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

We can single out a lot of the attack and midfield. The lack of pressing starts with the strikers and continues with the midfield. We do still overturn the ball in midfield, but our front three are far less effective at it. Diaz had been right on it, to be fair, and we are really missing his intensity. That is a very unfortunate injury so early on in his Liverpool career. So many of our recent signings have been unlucky (?) - Thiago, Jota, Diaz.

 

I think the 4-3-3 with 3 dynamic strikers all hounding the opposition is the point, but no, it’s not happening, agreed. The first 20 minutes of a game was where we excelled. We never do that now. That is on Klopp and training staff, yes. 
 

However, that’s only one issue. 
The other massive issue is our inability to play quick incisive passes at pace w/o fucking it up and giving the ball away, where all of a sudden, we’re totally exposed because our core tactic is attacking full backs playing high with no cover. THAT is why I would like to see a 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 with Trent’s skills used in Midfield, with the extra defender behind him. Robbo is far more dynamic than Trent currently and seems to be able to do what is asked of him. 
 

In that second half, Naby made a difference in midfield for Elliot. I thought he played well, looking to do what neither Fabinho or Thiago seem to want to do…push forward at pace with incisive passing. He set Trent up on a plate for his left foot, but Trent dithered.

 

Problems problems.

 

 

We are not far apart in our reading of it all.

 

I feel sorry for Elliott - poor kid has been thrown in at the deep end an asked to swim using a stroke that is not at all natural to him.

 

It is doing him and sadly the team no favours at all.

[Strontium]

That's us all over though, square pegs into round holes. Instead of just buying round pegs or making square holes.

[Red Shift]

23 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Poor performance, got what we deserved, which was fuck all.

Midfield is an issue that can no longer be ignored now. Two TOP midfielders are needed. Spend whatever the fuck it takes. We are a shambles in the centre. Keep Thiago, and move on the rest except the youngsters like Harvey and Carvalho. 

 

Whilst not complaining about the result, I do want to moan about VAR again. It's so infuriating that the Nunez goal was disallowed. Just what part of him was offside? We're talking millimetres here. It's so stupid. VAR is supposed to be for clear and obvious errors, not to analyse every possible offside down to the inch.   

Yeah that decision halted our momentum slightly, and obviously, if given, Ox’s goal was the equaliser. That would have been interesting. It was definitely a fine margin, not for the first time.

[janmolby]

Heavy metal football? More like drum and bass with a tin whistle and a triangle.

[Arniepie]

Watching that arsenal documentary on amazon and we turned them over 3 times last season,even arteta says to the players we are the best team in the country. 

Mad how it can change so much in 12 months 

When Ferguson was at utd they used to improve the team each season,just 1 or 2 signings. Like others have said,we simply haven't done this. I heard one of those know it all reds on radio merseyside last year saying we don't need to bring anyone in as they wouldn't strengthen what we have got but imho you can always improve.

Fsg must take responsibility but surely klopp can't be happy with it?

[Aventus]

22 minutes ago, Red74 said:

I know I’ve harped on about it before but players just stop listening cos they know it’s cheaper to replace you than them. 
 

Rinus Michels said back in the day that you’ve got 3 years to keep players interested before you need to shake them up as they’ve heard everything you’ve got to say.
 

There was a documentary made with the mancs behind the scenes back in the day and fergies doing his team talk, the day before they’re playing us I think, and the players are yawning and schmeichal says we’ve heard all this before. Wasn’t long after a few of them were sold and replaced and a new generation of cunts who came into win for them. 
 

These players will lose faith in klopp a lot quicker than he will in them. Shake them up jurgs. On the pitch and off it. Only Robbo & the keeper should be safe from harm.

In addition to this the majority of our players have won everything with us, the hunger just isn't there when you are fielding the same team all the time, what made us better than everyone else was the amount of fight we had in us, we could be drawing going into the last 5 and I would always back us to battle for that last minute winner, I just don't get that feeling anymore. 

 

That's not to say they all need replacing, but when you have enough new faces who are eager to impress and make their own history and win their own medals it will light a fire under the arses of the older players too. 

 

As sad as I was to see the likes of Mane leave, I ultimately saw it as a good thing because it gave us the opportunity to evolve, we need more of that but with it being a decision made by the management rather than the players. When was the last time Klopp actively decided to sell a player because he wasn't working out for us and we needed to free up the funds? Seems like almost every player just leaves at the end of their contract. 

[Code]

[an tha]

Some stats....this season v last (this 1st)

 

We are down on goals per game

 

Down on expected goals

 

We are letting more in

 

Our expected conceded is higher

 

We are having less attempts on opposition goal

 

The opposition are having more attempts on our goal.

Goals per game: 2.00 v 2.47
xG per game: 1.72 v 2.502
Goals against per game:  1.21 v .68
xG against per game: 1.39 v .98
Shot per game: 17.14 v 18.97
Shots allowed per game: 9.86 v 7.82
Possession: 62.1 v 62.7

[Colonel Bumcunt]

4 minutes ago, razor said:

 

Anyone calling for Jurgen to go or questioning his commitment needs to log off.  You're an absolute disgrace.

 

The manner of the defeat is not something we can brush-off as a bad day at the office.  He's taking a big risk here with this season and the impact it will have on next season if we continue to drift. I actually do believe we have a shot at Bellingham, but it doesn't happen if we don't get CL. 

Real Madrid will take delight in knocking us for six in the next round if it means they win the Bellingham race.  

We're a mess, and we saw today coming, that's the big difference now, this shit is becoming acceptable when he tries to brush if off as unlucky.  

[an tha]

I think questioning some of Klopp's decision making this season is absolutely fair and valid.

 

Questioning his commitment or calling for his head however is simply idiotic.

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

We are not far apart in our reading of it all.

 

I feel sorry for Elliott - poor kid has been thrown in at the deep end an asked to swim using a stroke that is not at all natural to him.

 

It is doing him and sadly the team no favours at all.

Elliot should never have started. Keita played well and should have started.

Kostas started WTF? Clearly when Robbo came on he was fit and up for it.

Jurgen got the lineup wrong, imo, and after VVD’s muscle twitch, Nat Phillips was a good option over Matip.

[Code]

Wtf?

 

Phillips over Matip, are you on Crystal meth?

[an tha]

Just looking at our next few games.

 

Not exactly easy.

 

Brighton a

Chelsea h

Wolves a

Everton h

Newcastle a

 

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Watching that arsenal documentary on amazon and we turned them over 3 times last season,even arteta says to the players we are the best team in the country. 

Mad how it can change so much in 12 months 

When Ferguson was at utd they used to improve the team each season,just 1 or 2 signings. Like others have said,we simply haven't done this. I heard one of those know it all reds on radio merseyside last year saying we don't need to bring anyone in as they wouldn't strengthen what we have got but imho you can always improve.

Fsg must take responsibility but surely klopp can't be happy with it?

Actually we have. We’ve brought in several players in the last 2-3 seasons. Have they been as effective? Yes. When they’ve played.

[Red Shift]

8 minutes ago, Code said:

Wtf?

 

Phillips over Matip, are you on Crystal meth?

Matip has had previous poor performances against Brentford. Phillips is pretty solid and he’d have the experience of Konate right by him.

 

 

[Josef Svejk]

2 hours ago, stringvest said:

 

give it two seasons.  Kuyt was a terrible player with a busy running style.  Slow as fuck, no technique, loved by the fans because he was a tryer. 

 

100 caps for the Netherlands. Terrible. 

[Jennings]

That was a different Keita than I have seen previously. He was hungry for the ball. He drove at players. He played more centrally.  
 

He seems like a confidence player. He needs to hear that that stuff was valued. 

[Jennings]

3 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

You're a cunt-monkey, throwing shit around like that. 

 

Trent is a full back who is supposed to be good at crossing, and should be crossing regularly.  Thats his main job.  So cross the fucking ball Trent.  Stop hogging the ball, stop slowing shit down to a crawl, stop trying to retain possession with a 5 yard pass inside when you created pressure on yourself by chewing the ball for 10 seconds while in a position to cross.  It's not impressive, it's not cultured, it's not helping us, and for fucks sake don't half-assed close down the player in front of you and get caught too far forward and then don't sprint back.  

 

Unless you think my reference to athleticism is a bit of a trope.  

 

 

you’ve been called out here, fella. Your comment was bang out of order.     

You’re trying to dilute it here.
Own it.

Double down or apologise.  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Baltar said:

Poor performance, got what we deserved, which was fuck all.

Midfield is an issue that can no longer be ignored now. Two TOP midfielders are needed. Spend whatever the fuck it takes. We are a shambles in the centre. Keep Thiago, and move on the rest except the youngsters like Harvey and Carvalho. 

 

Whilst not complaining about the result, I do want to moan about VAR again. It's so infuriating that the Nunez goal was disallowed. Just what part of him was offside? We're talking millimetres here. It's so stupid. VAR is supposed to be for clear and obvious errors, not to analyse every possible offside down to the inch.   

It was offside. 
 

 

3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Can't keep both Harvey and Carvalho tbh.

I reckon there is a player in Carvalho. He’s direct. Got skill. Seems to have good acceleration. Need to put some muscle on. 

[Dr Nowt]

11 minutes ago, Jennings said:

That was a different Keita than I have seen previously. He was hungry for the ball. He drove at players. He played more centrally.  
 

He seems like a confidence player. He needs to hear that that stuff was valued. 

[Aventus]

16 minutes ago, Jennings said:

That was a different Keita than I have seen previously. He was hungry for the ball. He drove at players. He played more centrally.  
 

He seems like a confidence player. He needs to hear that that stuff was valued. 

A. His contract is running out and he wants a renewal. He might turn to shit again once he gets the new contract. 

 

B. His contract is running out and he is putting himself in the shop window for a decent salary at his next club. 

 

C. He's spent the last couple of weeks seeing how shite our midfield is and listening to Klopp going apeshit at them. So now he's thinking he stands a decent chance of getting a regular starting position if he puts in the graft.

 

Hopefully it's the latter. 

[dockers_strike]

People can say we've got injuries or need a new midfield etc but I think that misses the real point.

 

What strikes me as something we dont seem to learn from is, our corners attacking the oppos goal, we send both CBs, whoever they are, up in the box and one of the fullbacks, Trent, Robbo or Kostas generally taking the corner. Any team worth their salt who wins the ball on our corner knows we're exposed with 3 out of our 4 defenders out of the game if they win the ball and break quickly. It's virtually always a two or one on one.

 

Stop sending both CBs up for the time being, they hardly ever score anyway. Once again, Keita got robbed of the ball far too easily for the break on the 3rd goal. Where was Matip, Trent and Robbo? Once again lost possession 10 or so yards in the oppos half has left us 1 CB, Konate and Alli.

 

At arsenal we had a corner seconds before half time. Everyone piled into the arsenal box, both CB's and fullback. We lost possession from the corner and guess what? We were exposed and conceeded a needless goal seconds before half time.

 

It didnt happen last night against Brentford but how many times have we conceeded in the first few minutes of each half? I say 1 time too many.

 

These are glaring errors and I dont see anything happening to stop them.

[Jennings]

3 minutes ago, Aventus said:

A. His contract is running out and he wants a renewal. He might turn to shit again once he gets the new contract. 

 

B. He's spent the last couple of weeks seeing how shite our midfield is and listening to Klopp going apeshit at them. So now he's thinking he stands a decent chance of getting a regular starting position if he puts in the graft.

 

Hopefully it's the latter. 

 

Point A covers it for me, mate. 
 

I was genuinely surprised to see his performance today. I wasn’t considering it a  new beginning. 

 

 

[an tha]

Not a bad article...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/02/liverpools-latest-loss-poses-champions-league-problem