Mon 2 Jan 17:30 Brentford vs Liverpool

[Scott_M]

I’m still fuming.

[Mook]

15 minutes ago, Morning Glory said:

I hate FSG as much the next person but if my sums are correct we’ve spent over £190 million on 4 forwards in the past 12 months and not a penny on midfielders. There’s your big problem. And who is the person/persons responsible for that? 

 

Klopp.

 

He's not untouchable and he is a big reason why we're currently languishing above mid-table. Needs to sort it & fucking fast.

 

I said to my mate when we got to the pub at 5pm last night that we might as well enjoy the next half an hour as the rest of the night would be shit, you could see that coming a mile off.

[skend04]

14 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Klopp.

 

He's not untouchable and he is a big reason why we're currently languishing above mid-table. Needs to sort it & fucking fast.

 

I said to my mate when we got to the pub at 5pm last night that we might as well enjoy the next half an hour as the rest of the night would be shit, you could see that coming a mile off.

Agree.

 

If the ordinary supporter can see why we are fucked, people paid millions of pounds a year should be able to see it too. I don't get all this "he's got enough credit" stuff when he's handsomely paid to manage the team and is failing, along with the owners, to do so. 

 

The trip to Dubai was a load of wasted time too as it's fixed fuck all. Yet the team will be put out for the next match and the one after that, and so on, playing the exact same way. It's the exact definition of insanity. 

[gkmacca]

Keita is so unpredictable it's particularly irritating when, after a good performance (and it is always after, never before), some start talking as though he's such a predictably good player the manager must be some kind of idiot for not playing him more often. 

 

He's not a 'confidence' player who needs to feel 'appreciated,' because, as plenty on here have moaned about, Klopp has 'appreciated' him publicly, and defended him on countless occasions, and has even been slagged off for wanting him to stay. It hasn't had any noticeable impact on his mercurial performances.

 

He's exasperatingly erratic - he has good rechnique but usually can't hit a shot at goal without swazzing it high and wide no matter how much we need a breakthrough. He can be tough and incisive in tackling, except when he looks like he's hiding from any contact. He can use the ball very well, unless he's playing no-look balls infield or just passing straight to an opponent.

 

He's the poster boy of ex post facto pundits, the told-you-so star of fans with Men in Black-wiped minds. He's utterly unreliable and no solution to any long-running problem.

 

So, yes, he did do well last night. But is that any proof he should have been played in previous games or should be played in future games? No. because on another day he might be shite.

[gkmacca]

50 minutes ago, skend04 said:

If the ordinary supporter can see why we are fucked, people paid millions of pounds a year should be able to see it too.

 

This is what amazes me. Do people who say this genuinely believe that contrast is true? 

 

("Jurgen, we've got a call from someone in their living room, covered in crisps and a bit worse for wear for ale, who says he knows where you're going wrong..." "Thank God for that - put him on!")

[an tha]

It is mad how neglected midfield has been.

 

The 3 who started the european cup final in 2019 were Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum.

 

I don't think many would argue that here in 2023 the best midfield we can put out is Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago.

 

So that is 2 of the same 3 and in Thiago a player a good 3 or 4 years older than Wijnaldum was in 2019.

 

Then you look at the bench and the options for cover/rotation and it just hammers home how neglected midfield has been.

 

On the bench that night in Madrid in 2019 midfield wise were Milner and Oxlade along with Lallana -  Keita surprise surprise was injured and unavailable....

 

Here we are nigh on 4 years later Oxlade and Keita are still here and still injured regularly, have been throughout the 4 years - Milner is still here at 37 years old and getting plenty of games because we often have no other option....

 

We don't have a single midfielder in our squad who is at the generally recognised peak/prime age except for Naby Keita - and we all know the story with him.

 

It is neglect IMHO. 

 

 

 

 

[stringvest]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Played in their only world cup final since the 70s.

 

There is a chance, Stringers, that despite his very, very obvious technical limitations, Dirk Kuyt was actually a reasonable footballer.  

 

there is, and many people would agree with you.  

[El Rojo]

11 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

Keita is so unpredictable it's particularly irritating when, after a good performance (and it is always after, never before), some start talking as though he's such a predictably good player the manager must be some kind of idiot for not playing him more often. 

 

He's not a 'confidence' player who needs to feel 'appreciated,' because, as plenty on here have moaned about, Klopp has 'appreciated' him publicly, and defended him on countless occasions, and has even been slagged off for wanting him to stay. It hasn't had any noticeable impact on his mercurial performances.

 

He's exasperatingly erratic - he has good rechnique but usually can't hit a shot at goal without swazzing it high and wide no matter how much we need a breakthrough. He can be tough and incisive in tackling, except when he looks like he's hiding from any contact. He can use the ball very well, unless he's playing no-look balls infield or just passing straight to an opponent.

 

He's the poster boy of ex post facto pundits, the told-you-so star of fans with Men in Black-wiped minds. He's utterly unreliable and no solution to any long-running problem.

 

So, yes, he did do well last night. But is that any proof he should have been played in previous games or should be played in future games? No. because on another day he might be shite.

 

Good post. His positive work last night was matched by his cheap loss of the ball in the build-up to their third goal. It has never really been any different with him. 

Also, while he saw a lot of the ball due to Brentford setting up camp on the edge of their own box for the second half, there was little enough of an incisive nature, and, like just about all our midfielders bar maybe the prematurely-maligned Elliott, he poses zero goalscoring threat himself. 

 

[skend04]

14 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

 

This is what amazes me. Do people who say this genuinely believe that contrast is true? 

 

("Jurgen, we've got a call from someone in their living room, covered in crisps and a bit worse for wear for ale, who says he knows where you're going wrong..." "Thank God for that - put him on!")

 

Yeah, I do. Mostly. I'm glad you're amazed though. 

[an tha]

20 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

Keita is so unpredictable it's particularly irritating when, after a good performance (and it is always after, never before), some start talking as though he's such a predictably good player the manager must be some kind of idiot for not playing him more often. 

 

He's not a 'confidence' player who needs to feel 'appreciated,' because, as plenty on here have moaned about, Klopp has 'appreciated' him publicly, and defended him on countless occasions, and has even been slagged off for wanting him to stay. It hasn't had any noticeable impact on his mercurial performances.

 

He's exasperatingly erratic - he has good rechnique but usually can't hit a shot at goal without swazzing it high and wide no matter how much we need a breakthrough. He can be tough and incisive in tackling, except when he looks like he's hiding from any contact. He can use the ball very well, unless he's playing no-look balls infield or just passing straight to an opponent.

 

He's the poster boy of ex post facto pundits, the told-you-so star of fans with Men in Black-wiped minds. He's utterly unreliable and no solution to any long-running problem.

 

So, yes, he did do well last night. But is that any proof he should have been played in previous games or should be played in future games? No. because on another day he might be shite.

Some stats from Keita from the game yesterday....

 

70.7 % pass completion
3 times dispossessed (the last one leading to a goal)
3 unsuccessful touches
0 tackles
0 interceptions

[sir roger]

Obviously he has been a massive disappointment and will hopefully be going at the end of the season but he played well last night, and those stats are misleading.  The losses of the ball were mostly trying to affect the play in the Brentford box unlike any other of our midfielders, and he surprised me at one point by flying in to a 50-50 header of a bouncing ball and winning it, so not sure about no tackles. 

 

Now he is fit we should be looking to start 3 of him, Thiago, Fabinho and Hendo in every game, with the likes of Milner, Elliott and Jones off the bench if needed.

[DaveT]

18 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Obviously he has been a massive disappointment and will hopefully be going at the end of the season but he played well last night, and those stats are misleading.  The losses of the ball were mostly trying to affect the play in the Brentford box unlike any other of our midfielders, and he surprised me at one point by flying in to a 50-50 header of a bouncing ball and winning it, so not sure about no tackles. 

 

Now he is fit we should be looking to start 3 of him, Thiago, Fabinho and Hendo in every game, with the likes of Milner, Elliott and Jones off the bench if needed.

This. He definitely won one challenge with a strong tackle (quite a rare thing admittedly) and one aerial challenge, so those stats are bull. He was brought on at a difficult time and was the only one trying to make things happen around the edge of their box….but by then they’re well set, with 9 or 10 men behind the ball. And if Konate hadn’t been weak/pushed we wouldn’t be talking about him losing possession. He can’t be relied on, he doesn’t solve the fundamental problem with a lack of athleticism in our midfield but in the interests of balance (!) it should be remembered that he was a star performer in some of our better performances in recent years, 5-0 at OT, 7-0 at Palace.

(Runs for cover)

[joe_fishfish]

2 hours ago, Scott_M said:

I’m still fuming.

You really expected anything else? I'm just surprised we scored and managed to briefly make a bit of a game of it.

[El Rojo]

Konate looked devastated at the end. It was refreshing to see that rather than a player talking behind his hand to an opponent. Harsh lesson for him last night, but he's quality. 

[joe_fishfish]

That's part of the Naby Keita Conundrum for me, he isn't total shit. He's a good player, when he can be arsed. He's just never fit, he's on big wages, and he cost a fucking shitload.

 

Having said that though, there have been times in his career with us when he hasn't been arsed at all. Still remember that Arsenal game in the Rumbelows Cup which ended up going to penalties. He started that day, he was shit, and he was replaced by Curtis Jones who at the time was like 19. Jones came on and was fucking head and shoulders above Keita that day, we started dominating the midfield at that point. That's not the only time Keita has just coasted through a game either.

 

Oh, and he still doesn't really understand that when the ball goes past him, he should actually chase back.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Keita is shit just not the shittest midfielder we have. There's years and years of evidence while playing for us that he's a waste of space and needs to leave. Could be our worst ever signing.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

11 hours ago, Jennings said:

you’ve been called out here, fella. Your comment was bang out of order.     

You’re trying to dilute it here.
Own it.

Double down or apologise.  

You're telling me I'm racist, I'm totally disagreeing, and I win because only I know what I meant when using that phrase.  

 

For those catching up with this bollocks, to save you scrolling back to my comment, it's my use of the descriptor 'cross monkey' with reference to Trent's ROLE in the team.  It's not describing Trent. 

 

Case closed. 

 

Cross merchant will be used in future. 

 

 

[Fallen Angel]

The saddest part in that result was that it was no surprise. As predictable in fact, as the tediously tiresome Naby Keita whingathon that commences everytime a result has not gone LFC’s way (regardless of him playing or not). We get it, he’s been a poor signing who’ll soon be gone. Do we have to go ‘full blue-nose’ on every thread?

 

The main thing is how we stop the rot. Playing the same formation and same tactics every game needs to end. What’s wrong with letting them have possession and hitting on the counter? Switching up the formation to keep opposition guessing? Just being less predictable in our approach. 
 

The players we have need to put a shift in. The lethargy in that squad has been visible all season. Additionally, Elliott should not start, he’d showed early promise but since that injury has been pedestrian. Ox should be nowhere the starting line up. Henderson should never be used in the 6, I’d rather see Bajcetic thrown in. 
 

On current form, that Madrid game next month could get very ugly unless there is a major upturn. 

 

[Section_31]

Keita is shite, hot and cold, lazy, unpredictable and tactically hopeless. He's only putting a shift in because he needs a new club. Fire him into space.

[No2]

9 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Keita is shite, hot and cold, lazy, unpredictable and tactically hopeless. He's only putting a shift in because he needs a new club. Fire him into space.

While all that is true he's also better than most of the midfielders we have.

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, Harrison Booth said:

While all that is true he's also better than most of the midfielders we have.

 

So is the Queen - in her current state.

[dockers_strike]

12 hours ago, an tha said:

Not a bad article...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/02/liverpools-latest-loss-poses-champions-league-problem

 

I know Jurgen keeps saying, publically, we dont need CL participation to attract the better calibre of player and if a player only wants to join us because we're in the CL, he doesnt see signing them as being a good move. I think he knows that's not the case deep down.

 

Failure to get in the CL will hurt our plans for next season.

 

But, the issue is if we miss out on CL footie next season, which is I hate to admit looking more and more likely, how long are Alli, Mo, Diaz, Jota, Konate and a few others, going to stay if we fail to qualify for a season or 2 after that?

 

It was hard enough getting back into the CL if you dropped out of the top 4. That was before Kronke loaded a £150m transfer spend loan onto arsenal, the Saudi's rocked up at the 'toon' and boehly being given a £250m FFP exempt transfer kitty for seeing off filthy Russian gangster money.

 

Staying in the top 4 for CL qualification became a lot harder from the beginning of the season. Once you're out, getting back in will be much tougher.

[Scott_M]

2 hours ago, joe_fishfish said:

You really expected anything else? I'm just surprised we scored and managed to briefly make a bit of a game of it.

Yeah, we were playing Brentford not the Allied’s in Escape To Victory. 

[an tha]

45 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

 

I know Jurgen keeps saying, publically, we dont need CL participation to attract the better calibre of player and if a player only wants to join us because we're in the CL, he doesnt see signing them as being a good move. I think he knows that's not the case deep down.

 

Failure to get in the CL will hurt our plans for next season.

 

But, the issue is if we miss out on CL footie next season, which is I hate to admit looking more and more likely, how long are Alli, Mo, Diaz, Jota, Konate and a few others, going to stay if we fail to qualify for a season or 2 after that?

 

It was hard enough getting back into the CL if you dropped out of the top 4. That was before Kronke loaded a £150m transfer spend loan onto arsenal, the Saudi's rocked up at the 'toon' and boehly being given a £250m FFP exempt transfer kitty for seeing off filthy Russian gangster money.

 

Staying in the top 4 for CL qualification became a lot harder from the beginning of the season. Once you're out, getting back in will be much tougher.

Definitely.

 

You have to act like a CL club when you aren't in it and spend money to improve to get back in - but it can be harder to get the players you want.

 

Look at Arsenal - they have been out for what 4 or 5 years now, but they have continued spending money and trying to improve - they have certainly not always got it right and they have made some bad buys - but the ambition has always been very clear - now they are going to get their reward.

 

If we as a club back Klopp whether he gets top 4 this year or not he will get it right, but he has to be backed and being backed should not depend on getting top 4 and he has to be backed to get us back if we don't get it.

[TheHowieLama]

3 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

You're telling me I'm racist, I'm totally disagreeing, and I win because only I know what I meant when using that phrase.  

 

For those catching up with this bollocks, to save you scrolling back to my comment, it's my use of the descriptor 'cross monkey' with reference to Trent's ROLE in the team.  It's not describing Trent. 

 

Case closed. 

 

Cross merchant will be used in future. 

 

 

 

I have been following this game for near 50 years and have never heard anything remotely like that to describe a players role.

Any player. In any role.

What happened to the reference to athleticism? The trope?

Shutting the fuck up for awhile would be best.