Homelessness

[Jairzinho]

Quote

Education Secretary Gillian Keegan said the most important thing was to support people to get off the streets.

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

They have gaslighting down to a tee

[Section_31]

Because tory economic and social policies are so provably, visibly disastrous, the only people who still publicly back them are overachivers, sociopaths and imbeciles. 

 

The Hesseltines of this world have retreated to their Cotswald cottages to play with their trsinsets.

 

Even the Iain Dale types are having road to Damascus moments. Peter Oborne and Rory Stewart have discovered that they are in fact now, reasonably left wing.

 

The Tory approach to homelessness is childlike and ham fisted, just like their approach to everything else "let's drop taxes and not explain how", let's tell the Russians to just "stop it and go away". 

 

That's why their communications strategy is now to draw memes of Starmer looking like a Mr Whippy ice cream.

 

This is how Conservative politics ends.

 

[Jack the Sipper]

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

[Creator Supreme]

9 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

Superb post.

[Section_31]

18 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

[Bjornebye]

32 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

Going back to my earlier point. To get into that situation usually means you’re addicted to booze/drugs. Getting out of that addiction is the hardest part. Nobody chooses that lifestyle for the fun of it. Of course a few are left helpless but if I lived on the streets I’d drink myself into oblivion every day. 
 

 

 

[Arniepie]

17 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

I remember an ex plod ringing a phone in and saying 75% of their shifts were spent dealing with people with mental health issues and they would often have to lock them up because there were no facilities available.   

 

[Arniepie]

On a wider issue homlessness suits tories. It gives the daily mail readers someone to look down on and it acts as a warning to working people not to get too uppity.

win/win.  

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I remember an ex plod ringing a phone in and saying 75% of their shifts were spent dealing with people with mental health issues and they would often have to lock them up because there were no facilities available.   

 

That’s why this is a real issue,

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/police-attending-mental-health-calls
 

Police will no longer attend serious mental health calls, as they believe it should be social services and the NHS.

 

If only they could find a common theme on why they’re underfunded, demonised and severely lacking in joined up thinking and leadership? 

[A Red]

Like I said, put the severe in to compulsory care. Proper funded care. Give them a chance 

[Bjornebye]

Hard not to agree with A Red here. A lot of people need cold turkey otherwise they aren’t shaking the plight. 

[Gnasher]

37 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Hard not to agree with A Red here. A lot of people need cold turkey otherwise they aren’t shaking the plight. 

 

They get that if they go to prison. Which unfortunately many do. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

 

Care in the community was a massive loss and has also contributed to the prisons being full. Difficult to say whether mental health is a major reason for those finding themselves  homeless or their condition has been caused because of finding themselves homeless. The percentage of those with mental health problems rises dramatically between those who are  homeless (40%) to those forced to sleep rough (80%). It goes without saying that the condition of those with mental health issues worsen dramatically the longer they are homeless to the condition of their homeless status, ie staying with friends, temporary accommodation to sleeping rough on the streets.

 

Some horrendous stats here...

 

https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/health-and-wellbeing/mental-health/#:~:text=45% of people experiencing homelessness,people who are homeless face.

 

 

 

As you say we lost a bridge to helping those people who are moving between prison and the streets and back again, whereas with a little help that wouldn't be the case. Even temporary accommodation is better than no accommodation and no help. Which many (not all) are experiencing when leaving hostels or prison. It's a vicious circle where hard drugs become a release. 

 

 

This government act like Btec accountants, they see the figures but they are incapable of looking beyond them. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing. 

[Edward.]

It might not be a lifestyle choice, but it has become some peoples lifestyles and incredibly difficult to turn around. I've met people who have got to the point where they can't be bothered to turn it around and life as crazy as it seems to us is much easy living "outside Asda". I have also met and worked with many more who have turned it around, only to find it too difficult and have ended up back on the streets and I have worked with people who after spending many years homeless are in accomodation of varying levels. Accomodation can also be pretty crap, and scary too. I think I have worked in pretty much 90% of the homeless hostels in the North East and very few if any I would want to spend the night in, often the safest place to be is outside Asda.

[Gnasher]

Privatisation of the probation service has proved to be another disaster.. 

[Arniepie]

that fact that homeless was stopped overnight during covid,sort of  suggests a flaw in the whole "choice" argument.

[A Red]

2 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

The only way most of the severe cases can be helped is compulsory care, as you say criminalising is a complete waste of time and money. 

[Megadrive Man]

4 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

 

Remember during Covid when they actually did manage to solve homelessness. Then as soon as the virus levels started to drop down they sent them straight back to the streets again! 

[Edward.]

34 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

that fact that homeless was stopped overnight during covid,sort of  suggests a flaw in the whole "choice" argument.

Homelessness isn’t just classed as street homeless though and not all street homeless people were housed.

[Megadrive Man]

22 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

I think a A lot of people are opting out of conventional lifestyles of a partner, job, mortgage etc and thinking fuck it I’ll live in a tent and get off my nuts all day instead. Look at the rise in tent cities in places like LA, San Francisco etc occupied in part by a lot of opioid addicts. The ‘ problem’ is that we only look at these people through the prism of conventional life styles and try to shoehorn them back into a life of sobriety, working minimum wage,  paying the rent on a flat etc A lot of well meaning posts on here are about how to rehouse these people, which is code for get them back into the conventional box. Maybe we should just leave them alone. 

Opting out? They don't have a choice!

 

The massive majority of people that are homeless are either suffering from mental illness or have been through a major life trauma.

 

The rise in tent cities is being caused by the growing gap in wealth inequality. Living in a tent and getting off your nut all day is a symptom, not a cause. 

[Arniepie]

12 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Interestingly Germany has a far bigger homeless population than the Uk, maybe as much as 10 x the number of rough sleepers. 

could you provide a source for that data?

[Arniepie]

Estimation of the number of homeless people in Germany 1995- 2022. In 2022, there were an estimated 196,000 Germans who were homeless. There were significantly more non-Germans who were homeless, at 411,000.

 

they include refugess in their stats though

[Bjornebye]

11 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

https://www.feantsa.org/download/germany-20174561023180755814062.pdf
 

The German rough sleepers number was 52,000 in 2016

 

The Uk estimate is about 4,000 in 2023 so not directly comparable but does show they historically have had much higher numbers. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rough-sleeping-snapshot-in-england-autumn-2023/rough-sleeping-snapshot-in-england-autumn-2023#:~:text=In 2023%2C there were 3%2C189,one person was under 18.

 

 

4000 in the UK????!!!!! Absolute bollocks mate. There must be 2000 in Merseyside alone 

[Arniepie]

8 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

4000 in the UK????!!!!! Absolute bollocks mate. There must be 2000 in Merseyside alone 

At least 309,000 people homeless in England today - Shelter England

 

just a little way off