Our midfield

[johnsusername]

It's 2022 and James Milner is our second best midfielder. 

[stringvest]

we need two top quality midfielders to supplement Thiago.  And we need one more very good player to come in for Thiago on occasion for the next 18-24 months.  That's three expensive players.  Is that likely?

[stringvest]

3 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

It's 2022 and James Milner is our second best midfielder. 

that was the same in 2021.

[Freddo]

We need midfielders in the engine room and that is the only way to get the best out of this team. We get them, we dominate games and we bully teams. They must open the finances and get a couple in January. It is too much work for a summer window.

[an tha]

Has to start in Jan...we have a massive amount of work to do.

 

Keita and Oxlade finally bin bagged at latest un Summer

 

Milner retired in Summer

 

Hendo moving into the Milner mode in Summer

 

So it is a minimum of 1 in Jan and 2 in Summer - prime age midfielders who add the legs, mobility, engines, ability to win ball, physicality, defensive nous we need badly and a bit of creativity on top amongst the 3 would be handy too.

 

 

[Razoray]

One midfielder in January transforms the team, especially if we stick with 442. Another 1 next summer, or 2 depending on Fabinho returning to form and a RB sets the squad up until 2024. 

[Scott_M]

I think whether the move to a 4-2-4, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 is permanent or if we’re looking to go back to 4-3-3 will dictate the type of midfielder we’re after. 
 

We’ve looked better with the two shielding players. I would assume it’s less physically intensive on the 2 pivot players than doing a box to box role. 
 

IMO, I think the double pivot has been the plan all along. It was our go to system last season to be less predictable. Touchameni plays a pivot role at Madrid, not a box to box role. 
 

If we’re going to stick with the double pivot, players who I’ve previously dismissed for a 4-3-3 now might become viable options (ie Neves). 
 

I know the league is a long shot, I don’t feel we’re out of it yet (although let’s see where we end up at the break) and the CL is still a real possibility, get this right in January and we can still have a really successful season.

 

IMO, if we sign Bellingham, he’ll be playing off Nunez, so we need somebody else for that pivot role.

[Jose Jones]

I thought Hendo was decent against the Hammers, couple of good driving runs that nearly set up goals. 
Milner was tremendous when he came on.

If those two keep up that form for the rest of the season that is probably the best we can hope for.

 

The main problem is Fabinho who has dropped fathoms off his form and he’s the one who is still in his prime years.
We’d have been expecting 2 or 3 more years of top class form from him, and he’s been the worst of the midfield this season.

[Red Hot]

Elliot has progressed this season turning in top performances and I expect him to grow as a player for many years. He will only get better as long as injuries don't prevent this. So both Milner and Henderson will need replacements imo.

[gkmacca]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

I thought Hendo was decent against the Hammers, couple of good driving runs that nearly set up goals. 
Milner was tremendous when he came on.

If those two keep up that form for the rest of the season that is probably the best we can hope for.

 

The main problem is Fabinho who has dropped fathoms off his form and he’s the one who is still in his prime years.
We’d have been expecting 2 or 3 more years of top class form from him, and he’s been the worst of the midfield this season.

If Milner can defy those fans who insisted, with God-like authority, that he was years past it, his legs have gone, he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team and deserved to be shot like a dog in the streets, I feel fairly sure Fabinho can do much the same and recover his form. Like with so many of our players, it's been an alarming period, but let's hope they start building on the last couple of games.

[sir roger]

By next season start:

 

Fabinho, Thiago, Elliott and Hendo retained

BGJ player coach With a ' Break glass in case of emergency ' sign on his tracksuit

Keita and Ox gone

Curtis - depends on how the rest of this season goes.

I don't count Carvalho as a midfielder at all.

 

One newby in January, and one or two next summer dependent on the Jones situation.

 

 

[Scott_M]

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

One newby in January, and one or two next summer dependent on the Jones situation.

 

 

I was thinking last night, I think that role Carvalho played could be perfect for Jones. 
 

He needs a run of fitness though. 
 

I do think park of the issue with Elliott, Jones and Carvalho is they are all similar sort of players - not fast enough to be wingers, not skilful enough to be a #10 (not like a Coutinho anyway), not disciplined enough to be a midfielder. They are all nice players but masters of none really. 
 

They are all still young lads so can obviously develop further, I’d say Jones is at most risk of being sold. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

All of our lives we've heard people say that such and such player can run rings around so and so, iro our impotent midfield though that's literally true.

 

At the end of today's latest embarrassment our greatest attacking threats were predictably our two fullbacks. No wonder the poor sods keep getting caught out of position.

 

Robbo, Trent, big Virg or moments of magic from Mo; we expect nothing from our midfielders and that's what we got once again.

 

That has to change. The personnel and the tactics.

[Red74]

The chronic lack of pace through the team - Nunez aside - needs addressing asap. They all look like they’ve lost 2 yards of pace this season. Embarrassing watching them huff and puff trying to get near players who are jogging past them now. 

[The Golden Eel]

On 20/10/2022 at 12:08, Scott_M said:

I was thinking last night, I think that role Carvalho played could be perfect for Jones. 
 

He needs a run of fitness though. 
 

I do think park of the issue with Elliott, Jones and Carvalho is they are all similar sort of players - not fast enough to be wingers, not skilful enough to be a #10 (not like a Coutinho anyway), not disciplined enough to be a midfielder. They are all nice players but masters of none really. 
 

They are all still young lads so can obviously develop further, I’d say Jones is at most risk of being sold. 

Elliott looks a better player than Jones to me. I think Elliott has been really good under the circumstances. Remember he didn't really play last season at all. One of the positives this season. 

[Rushies tash]

1 minute ago, The Golden Eel said:

Elliott looks a better player than Jones to me. I think Elliott has been really good under the circumstances. Remember he didn't really play last season at all. One of the positives this season. 

Definitely. I'd like to see him on the left more, as cutting in all the time slows his game. He'd go past people for fun on the left wing.

[Red74]

5 minutes ago, The Golden Eel said:

Elliott looks a better player than Jones to me. I think Elliott has been really good under the circumstances. Remember he didn't really play last season at all. One of the positives this season. 

Low bar though. He doesn’t score, create or win tackles. Can look busy but another slow player. Nowhere near ready for this level yet. 

[an tha]

6 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

Definitely. I'd like to see him on the left more, as cutting in all the time slows his game. He'd go past people for fun on the left wing.

He is a natural winger isn't he...but we are hellbent on turning him into a midfielder and in a system where a midfielder in his position in it needs to have defensive nous - of which he has little.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

52 minutes ago, an tha said:

He is a natural winger isn't he...but we are hellbent on turning him into a midfielder and in a system where a midfielder in his position in it needs to have defensive nous - of which he has little.

Doesnt have the pace to be a winger. I think he’s done all right coming into a team totally off form. Also think we’ll struggle to find his best position long term. 

[an tha]

2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Doesnt have the pace to be a winger. I think he’s done all right coming into a team totally off form. Also think we’ll struggle to find his best position long term. 

I know it is the championship but he did well as a winger for blackburn.....got a bomb load of assists.

 

Of course we don't use wingers as such usually, but i remain unconvinced he is a midfielder or we can successfully make hin one....time of course will tell.

[The Golden Eel]

He's playing pretty well in midfield now, is he not? I know nobody is being critical as such, but it feels to me like he's not getting enough credit? He's gone from basically not featuring at all to starting all the time in a struggling midfield/team and looking pretty good most matches - at 19. 

[Section_31]

Elliot and Jones don't look good enough to me. Milner on the pitch and Oxlaide Chamberlain coming on sums up what a clusterfuck it all is. 

 

Ironically, despite having the best squad of the last 20 or so years, it's probably our worst midfield.

 

Imagine a Hamann, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano in this side if everything was ticking properly.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

9 minutes ago, The Golden Eel said:

He's playing pretty well in midfield now, is he not? I know nobody is being critical as such, but it feels to me like he's not getting enough credit? He's gone from basically not featuring at all to starting all the time in a struggling midfield/team and looking pretty good most matches - at 19. 

 

Some good points. He probably would have done ok if the team was performing. The likes of Henderson, Fabinho, Keita and Ox are all senior players, on senior money, and should be expected to pull us through this, I reckon Elliott has been at least as good as Fabinho this season, and better than Henderson.

[an tha]

51 minutes ago, The Golden Eel said:

He's playing pretty well in midfield now, is he not? I know nobody is being critical as such, but it feels to me like he's not getting enough credit? He's gone from basically not featuring at all to starting all the time in a struggling midfield/team and looking pretty good most matches - at 19. 

For me the problem is pretty well is not good enough - we can't afford to have a lad learning on the job who is having to play because senior players are injured all the time or woefully out of form if we are going to challenge for the top honours.

 

Asking him to learn the defensive side of the job in particular in a misfiring constantly changing team is a big, big ask for the lad.

 

I like him - i like his attitude, i like his potential and i think in time there is a good player there for us - but for my money that is something he should be slowly working up to over next 2/3 years and i am just unsure it is as how is being used at present.

 

None of this is his fault IMO - he finds himself in the position he is in and he gives it 100% and you can see he cares - but he is for me being asked to survive in very deep water with little help.

 

[waddy78]

On 20/10/2022 at 09:06, Scott_M said:

 

 

IMO, if we sign Bellingham, he’ll be playing off Nunez, so we need somebody else for that pivot role.

It would be a 4-2-3-1 formation then kind of like Gerrard / Torres combo.