Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Numero said:

As for all this unity stuff, it’s one man. If unity means giving in to one man otherwise his followers leave, then the way to unify the party is to remove the venom. Of course, there’s absolutely no onus of the Corbynite twats to do anything towards unity, just as it wasn’t when he had half a decade to unify they party. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Their version of the left, the ‘support Corbyn or you’re not a lefties’ left, is rotten, it’s Trump-supporter blinkered, and it’s doesn’t represent me. I’m left wing because I believe in left wing policies. My belief in left wing policies doesn’t mean I have to back a career politician who drove Labour into the ground. You’re treating it as if it’s a fucking sports team. Twats. 

 

How the fuck can you unify the party without dealing with the biggest cause of disunity? 

Your first sentence "it's one man" is untrue, the mad witches have scented blood. The labour party have recently lost 50.000 members. The Hodge squad want a member thrown off the executive for suggesting Israel encourages apartheid. It's full on and wont stop with Corbyn.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

All these labels piss me off, what the fuck is a 'centrist' anyway? 

 

"Oooh you're a centrist and an enemy of progress."

 

Tell you what a centrist is. Someone who doesn't give a toss about politics and certainly can't be arsed arguing about it, cares about their own job, house and family and couldn't give a fuck about Venezuela. I.e, the vast majority of the population.

 

It doesn't make you a banker, or a fascist, or a cunt. 

 

Oooh look at me I've got a Palestinian flag on my profile and I play songs about Thatcher on my ukulele, I'm a better human being than you. 

 

Fuck, right, off.

I believe in the welfare state, in socialised medicine, in free education, in social equality and egalitarianism... Yeah, but why aren’t you wearing a flat cap and carrying a copy of Das Kapital? Get out you centrist bastard. 

 

I’m interested in policies, not tokenism. I’m interested in getting the Tories out, not placating one man - who by the way, is proven to be a terrible leader and a terrible talisman for a movement and a really shut politician. If that makes me a right winger, that’s fine by me. I don’t define my views by what they’re called collectively. I hate Tories and right wingers not because of their label but because of the things they believe. I’m more than willing to hate left wingers on the same front. Truth is, I don’t believe many of these people give a fuck about left wing policies, it’s more about the gang they’re in. Many don't understand the political theories or why they matter. 
 

It stinks.  

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, Numero said:

As for all this unity stuff, it’s one man. If unity means giving in to one man otherwise his followers leave, then the way to unify the party is to remove the venom. Of course, there’s absolutely no onus of the Corbynite twats to do anything towards unity, just as it wasn’t when he had half a decade to unify they party. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Their version of the left, the ‘support Corbyn or you’re not a lefties’ left, is rotten, it’s Trump-supporter blinkered, and it’s doesn’t represent me. I’m left wing because I believe in left wing policies. My belief in left wing policies doesn’t mean I have to back a career politician who drove Labour into the ground. You’re treating it as if it’s a fucking sports team. Twats. 

 

How the fuck can you unify the party without dealing with the biggest cause of disunity? 

 

The idea that the party has been "hijacked" by Starmer is bonkers. Think about it. Even if he was Blair II, what you're saying is:

 

Blair - centrist 

Brown - centrist 

Ed Miliband - centrist 

 

Corbyn on the slate. Non Labour members join in droves to get him elected. A separate organisation called momentum is set up that's personally loyal to his politics, campaigns and collects its own election data. Beaten soundly at an election. Chooses heiress, she doesn't win and is herself soundly beaten by Starmer. Said organisation and online outriders mobilise against him from the very beginning, before he even takes the reins, despite him winning a landslide backing of members. All because he's not their man's man.

 

Starmer - "centrist".

 

Heavens no, the right has seized control! Duplicitous fucks that they are.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

The critical thinking part would be to recognise that Corbyn could be in power now if the centrists and centre-right hadn't helped bring him down, chicken coup Starmer should know that only too well. So maybe for a lot of the left the answer is : fuck the current strategy.

 

Starmer will only be accepted because he offers no meaningful change.

 

And maybe critical thinking is knowing that Starmer's 10 pledges are just some writing with little backing it up. Maybe critical thinking is knowing that a trilateral guy is never going to "support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water" enough to make that happen if he wins an election. Because that's not want big business wants.

Could be, but isn’t. It’s done. How long are people going to cling to this nonsense that the election was stolen from him. It wasn’t. He lost. The campaign was atrocious. The leadership was atrocious. Some in the party were cunts. The Tories have an eighty seat majority. There are many arguments for why, but that’s a matter for the historians.

 

Without the endless fucking circles. 2017 great, 2019 a disaster. Neither were won and no amount of screaming in to the void will change that.

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

The critical thinking part would be to recognise that Corbyn could be in power now if the centrists and centre-right hadn't helped bring him down, chicken coup Starmer should know that only too well. 

Hahahah. Oh, how I love people talking about critical thinking whilst mindlessly parroting others. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Corbyn made more effort in four years to unite the party than all of the other leaders had in the previous 33 years.Not sure how that syncs with the 'left wingers are the problem' narrative, and as for Section with his very accurate descriptions of both sides, basically Centrists 'salt of the earth' , Socialists 'cunts' I dont know where to start.

 

You could start by not putting words into his mouth? Where did he call socialists ‘cunts’? You’re falsely equating Corbyn Pom-Pom girls with socialists. 
 

As for your first sentence... fucking hell, is Corbyn your screensaver? More to unite it! It’s bust apart at the seams because of his ineptitude and incompetence as a leader. 

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Numero said:

Hahahah. Oh, how I love people talking about critical thinking whilst mindlessly parroting others. 

 

Yeah it's just mindlessly parroting others. It has to be I suppose, because the alternative means that Starmer was part of the problem. Critical thinking is the domain of super centrists, not loony lefties obviously.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it's just mindlessly parroting others. It has to be I suppose, because the alternative means that Starmer was part of the problem. Critical thinking is the domain of super centrists, not loony lefties obviously.

You’ve demonstrated for many years that you and critical thinking aren’t easy bedfellows. In this case, it’s just your blind partisanship. I only picked it up because in one breath you’re going on about Critical Thinking and then talking about Starmer’s involvement. 
 

There’s nothing inherently left wing about being wrong. There’s nothing inherently left wing about about tokenism. There’s nothing inherently left wing about piss poor leadership. There’s nothing left wing about losing elections. Yet because Corbyn is the overarching representative of the left, apparently, I have to accept these things? Fuck that. 

[sir roger]

2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

The idea that the party has been "hijacked" by Starmer is bonkers. Think about it. Even if he was Blair II, what you're saying is:

 

Blair - centrist 

Brown - centrist 

Ed Miliband - centrist 

 

Corbyn on the slate. Non Labour members join in droves to get him elected. A separate organisation called momentum is set up that's personally loyal to his politics, campaigns and collects its own election data. Beaten soundly at an election. Chooses heiress, she doesn't win and is herself soundly beaten by Starmer. Said organisation and online outriders mobilise against him from the very beginning, before he even takes the reins, despite him winning a landslide backing of members. All because he's not their man's man.

 

Starmer - "centrist".

 

Heavens no, the right has seized control! Duplicitous fucks that they are.

The party from Kinnock onward spent 30 odd years ensuring that nobody of any real socialist zeal was allowed to become an mp , and if possible got rid of as a member while the party bigwigs and mps concentrated on what was important - getting themselves richer and keeping a chokehold on the party. When a potential if imperfect candidate appeared to  give a prospect of Labour going back to actually caring about people and opposing vindictive Tory poljcies of course it roused support in people ignored for donkeys years. He gets in and tries to accommodate even the worst of his enemies but gets it thrown in his face and is eventually hounded out of the party without actually breaking any rules, yet it appears it is the left that are the troublemakers. Gaslighting 101.

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

26 minutes ago, Numero said:

Interesting. I think letting all this just fester would have been the cowardly thing to do. If he was scared of them he would have placated them. I think it’s brave to stand up to them. They’re making threats, and he inherited a crisis of their making, now they’re pissed off he’s cleaning it up. Maybe RP is right, let the split happen and see how scary the Corbynites really are. 

Corbyn ordered a report into anti semitism and weve just had the findings of this report. The threats are all from the Hodge squad, the response by 'the left' was a reaction to Corbyn being unfairly punished in their eyes.

 

Starmer seems to have sided with the big boys in the fight and bowed to the whims of unhinged witch finders. The media, the parliamentary labour party and various dubious organisations seem to have a death wish on Corbyn and it's not brave to simply go with their every wish, I think its cowardly and foolish and all roads lead to here.

 

As for it being like extracting a tooth I think the after effects of the extraction will make the appearance of Labours face look ugly and unpalatable and will last into the foreseeable future.

[Bruce Spanner]

16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Your first sentence "it's one man" is untrue, the mad witches have scented blood. The labour party have recently lost 50.000 members. The Hodge squad want a member thrown off the executive for suggesting Israel encourages apartheid. It's full on and wont stop with Corbyn.

More people have joined than left, but don’t let that get in the way of a good ol’ echo chamber ‘truth’.

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/keir-starmer-labour-membership-88370

 

Suppose they’re all ‘centrist’ scum chasing the capitalist shrill dollar though, right? 

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

The party from Kinnock onward spent 30 odd years ensuring that nobody of any real socialist zeal was allowed to become an mp , and if possible got rid of as a member while the party bigwigs and mps concentrated on what was important - getting themselves richer and keeping a chokehold on the party. When a potential if imperfect candidate appeared to  give a prospect of Labour going back to actually caring about people and opposing vindictive Tory poljcies of course it roused support in people ignored for donkeys years. He gets in and tries to accommodate even the worst of his enemies but gets it thrown in his face and is eventually hounded out of the party without actually breaking any rules, yet it appears it is the left that are the troublemakers. Gaslighting 101.

Question: who has achieved most social policies in the UK in the last 50 years? You talk about helping people as if Corbyn has a monopoly on it; left wing pollution existed long before Corbyn and it’ll exist long after him. 
 

 

[sir roger]

16 minutes ago, Numero said:

You could start by not putting words into his mouth? Where did he call socialists ‘cunts’? You’re falsely equating Corbyn Pom-Pom girls with socialists. 
 

As for your first sentence... fucking hell, is Corbyn your screensaver? More to unite it! It’s bust apart at the seams because of his ineptitude and incompetence as a leader. 

Section appears to have altered his post describing Centrists as doing their best for their family and country and socialusts as having a Palestinian flag on their twitter page and learning ukelele to sing about Thatcher , parrotting rubbish about Momentum but ignoring Progress , Labour First etc. seemed a fair summation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

2 minutes ago, Numero said:

You’ve demonstrated for many years that you and critical thinking aren’t easy bedfellows. In this case, it’s just your blind partisanship. I only picked it up because in one breath you’re going on about Critical Thinking and then talking about Starmer’s involvement. 
 

There’s nothing inherently left wing about being wrong. There’s nothing inherently left wing about about tokenism. There’s nothing inherently left wing about piss poor leadership. There’s nothing left wing about losing elections. Yet because Corbyn is the overarching representative of the left, apparently, I have to accept these things? Fuck that. 

 

I can still critically think whilst being lectured to and gaslighted by Starmer supporters whining about Corbyn and lefties in a Corbyn thread, thanks though.

[Jairzinho]

Said it a few weeks ago, people on the left that don't have much time for Starmer and/or liked Corbyn need to make their peace now. It's gone, it's not coming back. The brief period of "control" for the left of the party has gone, and it won't be returning any time soon. Starmer doesn't give a fuck about you. Either lump it and vote for them or don't. Spending your time on this shit is futile.

 

I see it on Facebook, friends that spend every minute jumping on Starmer. I don't even care if they're right or wrong, I don't read what they're posting any more, but it's definitely futile. It isn't going to change anything. And, I do mean that, I don't buy the bullshit about "you should be attacking the Tories, etc". Regardless of its embarrassing hypocrisy (as that wing of the party did absolutely everything they could to ensure Labour couldn't win), it's simply an irrelevance. 47 year old accountant Judith from Midlands marginal isn't even aware of the existence of Squawkbox or Canary. 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

Section appears to have altered his post describing Centrists as doing their best for their family and country and socialusts as having a Palestinian flag on their twitter page and learning ukelele to sing about Thatcher , parrotting rubbish about Momentum but ignoring Progress , Labour First etc. seemed a fair summation.

I quoted him about five seconds after he posted... what’s the change? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I can still critically think whilst being lectured to and gaslighted by Starmer supporters whining about Corbyn and lefties in a Corbyn thread, thanks though.

I disagree. I don’t think you can think critically. 

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Said it a few weeks ago, people on the left that don't have much time for Starmer and/or liked Corbyn need to make their peace now. It's gone, it's not coming back. The brief period of "control" for the left of the party has gone, and it won't be returning any time soon. Starmer doesn't give a fuck about you. Either lump it and vote for them or don't. Spending your time on this shit is futile.

 

I see it on Facebook, friends that spend every minute jumping on Starmer. I don't even care if they're right or wrong, I don't read what they're posting any more, but it's definitely futile. It isn't going to change anything. And, I do mean that, I don't buy the bullshit about "you should be attacking the Tories, etc". Regardless of its embarrassing hypocrisy (as that wing of the party did absolutely everything they could to ensure Labour couldn't win), it's simply an irrelevance. 47 year old accountant Judith from Midlands marginal isn't even aware of the existence of Squawkbox or Canary. 

 

You ignore the large amount of people who supported Corbyn in both elections and will support Starmer in the next.

 

There we’re some cunts, but to paint anyone right of Ghandi a conspirator only inflates the problem.

 

A very large amount of people are sick and tired of cunts putting their over inflated sense of importance and entitlement over at the expense of progress.

 

It’s far from the black and white/them Vs us situation people are painting and the people who aren’t at the fringes throwing shit at each other are thoroughly pissed off.

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Numero said:

I disagree. I don’t think you can think critically. 

 

I don't care because I think you're being stupid.

[Brownie]

This is going well, then.

[elBooth]

Going to need an "Arguing over ex Labour Leaders" forum soon.  Regardless of anyone's feelings towards Corbyn it really is time to move on.  Constantly looking back and comparing everything that is done now to then is insanity and in no way breeds a competitive opposition. 

 

With Politicians everyone knows it isn't what difference they've made to their community or what they do for individuals; it's how they're presented to the Public and their perceived personality that "counts."  Maybe that's what the country should be arguining about.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, Bruce Spanner said:

You ignore the large amount of people who supported Corbyn in both elections and will support Starmer election in the next.

 

There we’re some cunts, but to paint anyone right of Ghandi a conspirator only inflates the problem.

 

It’s far from the black and white/them Vs us situation people are painting.

No, I'm not ignoring them. No, I haven't painted anyone right of Ghandi a conspirator. And, thanks, I'm aware it isn't a black and white situation.

 

Quote

 

A very large amount of people a sick and tired of cunts putting their over inflated sense of importance and entitlement over at the expense of progress.

 

Which people? Which people are doing what you doing what you suggest, and which are sick of it?

 

[Brownie]

The title needs changing to “Should Corbyn remain as a Labour MP” and we need a fresh poll.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I don't care because I think you're being stupid.

That's fine, but I'd like you to say why I'm being stupid and show how it's stupid. That would demonstrate critical thought. All you're doing now is 'saying' something. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, elBooth said:

 Regardless of anyone's feelings towards Corbyn it really is time to move on.

Well, it is but to be fair Corbyn has just had the whip removed, so it's kinda relevant to everything at the moment.