The war in Ukraine

[Captain]

It's not going anywhere Stu because you've brought in right and wrong.

 

Now, who decides who's right and who's wrong?

 

EDIT:  Just to be clear; I'm talking from a moral point of view. From a legal point of view, Putin is as fucked as he can get at this stage. Which is why he's completely isolated at this point.

[Stu Monty]

It's not going anywhere Stu because you've brought in right and wrong.

 

Now, who decides who's right and who's wrong?

 

You do apparently, because you have stated that it's wrong for a nation to invade another.

 

I've asked you if that still stands if they are coming in to right a perceived wrong (a coup) and then you got all coy.

 

There's very much an interesting debate about whether a Germany acting for a moral right, against the rest of Europe not bothered about a French coup that was in their interest, would be doing more harm than good. But it's one that you don't want to have as it speaks to the Russia situation in a way you don't like. 

[Red Phoenix]

In late May 1990, Gorbachev finally agreed to a unified Germany joining NATO. But why didn’t Gorbachev and Shevardnadze get the West’s commitments in writing at a time when they still held all the cards? “The Warsaw Pact still existed at the beginning of 1990,” Gorbachev says today. “Merely the notion that NATO might expand to include the countries in this alliance sounded completely absurd at the time.”

 

Some leading Western politicians were under the impression that the Kremlin leader and his foreign minister were ignoring reality and, as Baker said, were “in denial” about the demise of the Soviet Union as a major power.

 

On the other hand, the Baltic countries were still part of the Soviet Union, and NATO membership seemed light years away. And in some parts of Eastern Europe, peace-oriented dissidents were now in power, men like then-Czech President Vaclav Havel who, if he had had his way, would not only have dissolved the Warsaw Pact, but NATO along with it.

 

No Eastern European government was striving to join NATO in that early phase, and the Western alliance had absolutely no interest in taking on new members. It was too expensive, an unnecessary provocation of Moscow and, if worse came to worst, did the Western governments truly expect French, Italian or German soldiers to risk their lives for Poland and Hungary?

 

Then, in 1991, came the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the war in Bosnia, with its hundred thousand dead, raised fears of a Balkanization of Eastern Europe. And in the United States President Bill Clinton, following his inauguration in 1993, was searching for a new mission for the Western alliance.

 

Suddenly everyone wanted to join NATO, and soon NATO wanted to accept everyone.

 

The dispute over history was about to begin.

 

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/natos-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow/5380144

 

 

 

So if the Ukraine isn't good enough, when are Russia actually allowed to make a stand against NATO? When they reach the outskirts of Moscow maybe?

 

Fuck off NATO.

[Rico1304]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/natos-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow/5380144

 

 

 

So if the Ukraine isn't good enough, when are Russia actually allowed to make a stand against NATO? When they reach the outskirts of Moscow maybe?

 

Fuck off NATO.

You're going crazy again. Take a break.

 

Stu - are you still flip-flopping? You've been shown up on this thread already, stop digging you clown.

[Spy Bee]

You're going crazy again. Take a break.

 

Stu - are you still flip-flopping? You've been shown up on this thread already, stop digging you clown.

How's he been shown up, because he gave a very good comparison and then Captain refused to discuss it?

[Rico1304]

How's he been shown up, because he gave a very good comparison and then Captain refused to discuss it?

Read the thread. His comments on this situation and the ISIS thread, clearly showing completely different points of view, writing off the deaths of 2300 people...that enough for you. Clown.

[Spy Bee]

Read the thread. His comments on this situation and the ISIS thread, clearly showing completely different points of view, writing off the deaths of 2300 people...that enough for you. Clown.

Can you possibly try and answer a simple question without resorting to personal insults? Besides, calling people a clown when your grammar is incorrect just makes you look foolish.

 

What you reference above is nothing to do with what Stu is talking to Captain about. I haven't read both threads in full, so I can't really comment on what you posted.

[Rico1304]

Can you possibly try and answer a simple question without resorting to personal insults? Besides, calling people a clown when your grammar is incorrect just makes you look foolish.

 

What you reference above is nothing to do with what Stu is talking to Captain about. I haven't read both threads in full, so I can't really comment on what you posted.

Can you possibly try and answer a simple question without resorting to personal insults? Besides, calling people a clown when your grammar is incorrect just makes you look foolish.

 

What you reference above is nothing to do with what Stu is talking to Captain about. I haven't read both threads in full, so I can't really comment on what you posted.

Ha ha, oh the grammar police? Did I miss a question mark?

[Spy Bee]

Ha ha, oh the grammar police? Did I miss a question mark?

Yes.

[KopOut]

I read somewhere that Russia's economy is the size of Italy's and they've just entered into a recession on the back of Putin's little adventures.

Madness

They've already lost and they seem incapable of grasping the point

China is their silent backer. One word: BRICS

[Rico1304]

Yes.

Which is more foolish, a horrendously hungover bloke missing a question mark from a sentence or someone pretending they didn't understand that sentence because of the missing punctuation? Clown.

[Spy Bee]

Which is more foolish, a horrendously hungover bloke missing a question mark from a sentence or someone pretending they didn't understand that sentence because of the missing punctuation? Clown.

I didn't pretend I didn't understand it, did I?

[Rico1304]

I didn't pretend I didn't understand it, did I?

so why point it out then? Surely only a sad individual would be so concerned about grammar that he'd take the time a effort to point out a mistake? The internet's a big place, you're going to be busy pointing out every error. Or were you just doing it because you don't like what in saying? Hang on whilst I cut myself. Clown.

[Spy Bee]

I was just pointing out that if you are going to call someone a clown, you might want to check your spelling. I didn't particularly like what you were saying, because you were calling attempting to offend me, but being called a clown three times is less offensive when it comes from a stupid fucking cunt!

[Rico1304]

I was just pointing out that if you are going to call someone a clown, you might want to check your spelling. I didn't particularly like what you were saying, because you were calling attempting to offend me, but being called a clown three times is less offensive when it comes from a stupid fucking cunt!

I've no idea how to spell the noise that is "giggling like a girl " but rest assured that's what I'm doing. Instead of bitching about a dropped punctuation mark you could have read the thread and seen how your pal had been shown up. Clown.

[Spy Bee]

I've now read the whole thread & if you really think Stu has been shown up then I'm wasting my time and energy even discussing this with you.

[VladimirIlyich]

I don't understand where Stu is flip-flopping here. The ISIS situation and Ukraine have some similarities,eg the citizens of the countries didn't want to be ruled by terrorists funded by the west,in both cases it would appear.

[Red Phoenix]

You're going crazy again. Take a break.

 

 

The closer you get to the truth, the crazier you're often likely to appear!

[Spy Bee]

Some people just consume the mainstream media in this country as if it is gospel. They just take the narrative of who are the goodies and baddies as it is presented to them without ever actually questioning what's really going on. Have you noticed that The West are always the goodies? Funny that isn't it!

[Rico1304]

The closer you get to the truth, the crazier you're often likely to appear!

No, the crazier you appear, the crazier you are.

[mattyq]

Some people just consume the mainstream media in this country as if it is gospel. They just take the narrative of who are the goodies and baddies as it is presented to them without ever actually questioning what's really going on. Have you noticed that The West are always the goodies? Funny that isn't it!

I take your point but i suspect the world is better place being run by the West rather than China

Sorry, Woo

[Spy Bee]

No, the crazier you appear, the crazier you are.

Plato disagrees: "Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool"

 

He did say this 2500 years ago like, but I reckon I'd still his arl arse opinion over yours.

[Red Phoenix]

No, the crazier you appear, the crazier you are.

 

Yeah ok.

[Captain]

You do apparently, because you have stated that it's wrong for a nation to invade another.

 

I've asked you if that still stands if they are coming in to right a perceived wrong (a coup) and then you got all coy.

 

There's very much an interesting debate about whether a Germany acting for a moral right, against the rest of Europe not bothered about a French coup that was in their interest, would be doing more harm than good. But it's one that you don't want to have as it speaks to the Russia situation in a way you don't like. 

 

Of course it still stands. I don't give a fuck if Putin thinks he's right, the fucking mentalist.

[Jairzinho]

I take your point but i suspect the world is better place being run by the West rather than China

Sorry, Woo

 

It's better for the West being run by the West.