Summer '09 Transfer Speculation Thread

[Liquid football]

Looks like Catch22 was right again with regards to the higher rate of marginal tax. Heaven forbid, footballers and their agents actually look to maximize their earning potential? Madness!

 

You make it sound like it isn't just greed.

 

We aren't talking about people scraping to pay the bills here; we are talking about stupidly rich individuals.

[Mr T]

You make it sound like it isn't just greed.

 

We aren't talking about people scraping to pay the bills here; we are talking about stupidly rich individuals.

 

Whether it's right or wrong is not for me to say, but it's a fact that footballers (like everyone) are highly motivated by their marginal pay - which I have seen disputed on here many times, quite naively.

[Jose Jones]

You make it sound like it isn't just greed.

 

We aren't talking about people scraping to pay the bills here; we are talking about stupidly rich individuals.

 

You live to your means to some extent don’t you? And it’s pretty easy to lose perspective if all your mates and peers are in the same boat. But yeah, it is basically greed.

Also I reckon this is a bigger deal for a lot of the South American and African lads who are basically looking after their entire families, and probably why Wenger is so worried about it.

[Clazsic]

See your English is ok. All you need to do is cut out the text speak, which annoys the hell out of me and others on here.

 

point taken ;)

[Catch22]

You live to your means to some extent don’t you? And it’s pretty easy to lose perspective if all your mates and peers are in the same boat. But yeah, it is basically greed.

Also I reckon this is a bigger deal for a lot of the South American and African lads who are basically looking after their entire families, and probably why Wenger is so worried about it.

 

 

The South American & African players can take non-dom status so it doesn't affect them.

 

& Aside from the moral questions of greed (ultimately you could argue that every hi-profile footballer who leaves, increases the political pressure to remove this insanely economically destructive tax rate & therefore helps the country) people forget that they are already living in a foreign land.

 

People usually move with families to another country for the financial advantages.

 

They were greedy to come here (& nothing wrong with that)- Why stay in a culture so different from your own (try eating a proper meal after midnight in the UK,etc,etc) for less cash?

[redrosetints]

im not as fortunate as u peeps -who are born in britain n speak good lingo - just good enough to support lfc since i was a kid.

 

WElcome, just drop the text talk.

 

Use Firefox and install the british dictionary, then you never need misspell a word again ...

 

(Im using IE just in case any of this has speeling errors) ....

[redrosetints]

The Villa question is a difficult one. At first glance you'd jump at the chance to sign him but when you scratch away at the surface and look a little deeper you see more questions than answers.

 

Before you even talk about money, you have the issue of the Gerrard and Torres axis of beauty. It worked in the backend of 07/08, then was changed due to the arrival of Keane. As with now, on paper you'd say that having Keane in the squad was a major upgrade on Voronin, and that we'd be far better as a squad but the fact is, as we all know, that as a team it wasnt.

 

Step away from the circus around him and the will he stay wont he stay, did Rafa want him more than Barry etc etc the fact is that him coming into the team disrupted a key element of the previous seasons excellent run in, namely the G?&T combo. We changed formation, shape, emphasis and quite simply, whatever you think of the personalities, adding Keane made us weaker not stronger. So its clearly not as simple as adding more big name players, it about adding the RIGHT players to perform certain tasks.

 

So first up, if we signed Villa, could G, T and V play as an attacking front 3 in the system we perfected last year ? While I see that any new player may take time to adjust, we need a new player, esp a 40m one, to bed in quickly, which means him plugging into the existing team, formation and setup, can villa do that ? The obvious solution to me would be to have Villa and Torres together and Gerrard move out to the left in a free role, but we have no idea if that will work, similarly, we have no idea if Villa and Torres could recreate their international form on the domestic stage and, crucially for this to be worthwhile, make the team as good as when G&T play up front together.

 

Further to this, you then have to address the issue of cost, simply, we cant afford him unles we offload Xabi or Masch. Again, while on paper adding Villa for one of those may seem to be a positive (You can get loads of DMs for cheap yada yada yada, still not convicned meself like), you have to look at the dynamic of the team and the way we play to see if losing one of them will result in us being better or not. Sure Gerrard can move back to the midfield, but for me, thats both a waste of his attacking talents and, Im probably in a minority here, i dont think he's as a good a midfielder as either Xabi or Masch, he can do it all but that versatility can be a problem sometimes when he tries to do too much. As with G&T you also have to look at the players in partnership and the fact that as a pair, they are greater than the sum of their parts, inspite of both being world class in the individuals in their own right.

 

So in a nutshell, to sign Villa we'd need to break up two key partnerships, thats two key world class parternships in our spine to accomodate a player. And for that reason Im out. If Xabi or Masch were to leave and that money covered the Villa signing, then Id be very tempted, but you'd still be faced with breaking up the G&T partnership, or playing Villa out of position or changing formation, so nay, nay and thrice nay.

 

Thats the beauty oif the Johnson deal, right back is our weakest position (Thats not a reflection on Bobs ability, but more a reflection of the higher standards of the current squad), we buy a player who plays RB and stick him in there. No changes to partnerships, other than for Johnson himself and no change in style or formation. So if Rafa wants a left sided forward, do a loan for Downing, sell some rubbish to sign Silva, or my personal preference, buy Henry who can cover the left flank and Torres, but whatever you do Rafa, buy a player who can slot in where needed and without breaking up the partnerships we have and the formation we have.

[Xherdan]

You live to your means to some extent don’t you? And it’s pretty easy to lose perspective if all your mates and peers are in the same boat. But yeah, it is basically greed.

Also I reckon this is a bigger deal for a lot of the South American and African lads who are basically looking after their entire families, and probably why Wenger is so worried about it.

 

 

 

I read an article online a few months back where a 24 year old stock broker living in Manhattan was earning in excess of $55,000 per month. Nice money if you can get it. Anyway, when the difficulties starting hitting wall street his earnings were slashed as he wasnt performing as well, poor guy had to get by on approx $20,000 p/m.

 

Thing was, he had designed a lifestyle to match his earnings. Had an apartment over looking central park, attended the same fitness studio as Aguilera and other such stars, ate out every night, drove a big fuck off car etc etc etc etc. Basically, in the article, he was saying that he literally could not survive on $20,000 p/m, it wouldnt cover his bills.

 

As tragic as this story is it is merely a demonstration of how we will all adapt our lifestyles to suit our income. It is human nature. It is also human nature to want more, blame it on Adam and Eve perhaps....

 

Professional footballers are human. If more money is offered to them they will consider it. Whereas in previous decades we had players making maybe one or two moves during a career they were all mainly within England, with the very odd exception going overseas. In the modern game almost every team in the league have more foreign players than English. Its not that 'dem bleeding foreigners' have no loyalty, they are here to earn their wage, besides, why would a guy from Costa Rica have any loyalty to Wigan or West Brom?

 

Just because a footballers life is something that a lot of us would like, doesnt mean that they have to approach in the same idealisitic way we would like to think we would approach it. Get a year of £80,000 p/w under your belt and see how you are then.

[redrosetints]

You make it sound like it isn't just greed.

 

We aren't talking about people scraping to pay the bills here; we are talking about stupidly rich individuals.

 

But where do you draw the line in the definition of Greed ?

 

Couldnt we all survive with a tent a spade and an allotment ?

 

Human nature dictates we all want more, its what makes us innovate and change.

 

Bottom line is, whatever job your in, if your mate down the road is getting an extra £1 an hour or £2 million a year and you feel your as good as him, you'll want that compensation.

[Chocoholic]

Correction..

 

He could not afford to live the way he had become accustomed to living... surviving is a whole different ball game!

[Guest LFD]

I honestly think it is possible we sign Johnson, Robben and Villa this summer, AND keep Alonso and Mascherano.

 

Budget:

 

£20M + £15M Keane + sales

 

Johnson £18M

(£8M out of pocket, £7M Crouch, £3M add ons for trophies/appearances)

 

Robben £18M

(£10M out of pocket, Arbeloa to Real Madrid for £8M)

 

Other sales:

 

Dossena - £6M (Juventus)

Babel - £8M (Galatasary)

Voronin - £3M (Bundesliga, not sure who, but someone will stump up £3M)

Riera - £8M (Atletico or some other solid La Liga team)

 

I make it we now have £42M for a bid for Villa. Torres is doing his bit to get the bid going. If he does not go to Real or Barca he will come here.

 

This would be the dream summer - sign Villa, Robben and Johnson and keep our best players too. If one of Alonso/Mascherano is sold for big bucks then it would take the shine off somewhat, but we would still be better poised for next season with the three I mention.

 

Get on the sunshine bus folks!

 

PS - I'm happy. Just go back from golf. Everyone puts in money (over 50 fellas). Down to the last hole. I win a big skin on a par three. 165 yard 7 iron and a tap in birdie. Woo-hoo! $$$

 

 

That would be immense.

[zico]

The Villa question is a difficult one. At first glance you'd jump at the chance to sign him but when you scratch away at the surface and look a little deeper you see more questions than answers.

 

Before you even talk about money, you have the issue of the Gerrard and Torres axis of beauty. It worked in the backend of 07/08, then was changed due to the arrival of Keane. As with now, on paper you'd say that having Keane in the squad was a major upgrade on Voronin, and that we'd be far better as a squad but the fact is, as we all know, that as a team it wasnt.

 

Step away from the circus around him and the will he stay wont he stay, did Rafa want him more than Barry etc etc the fact is that him coming into the team disrupted a key element of the previous seasons excellent run in, namely the G?&T combo. We changed formation, shape, emphasis and quite simply, whatever you think of the personalities, adding Keane made us weaker not stronger. So its clearly not as simple as adding more big name players, it about adding the RIGHT players to perform certain tasks.

 

So first up, if we signed Villa, could G, T and V play as an attacking front 3 in the system we perfected last year ? While I see that any new player may take time to adjust, we need a new player, esp a 40m one, to bed in quickly, which means him plugging into the existing team, formation and setup, can villa do that ? The obvious solution to me would be to have Villa and Torres together and Gerrard move out to the left in a free role, but we have no idea if that will work, similarly, we have no idea if Villa and Torres could recreate their international form on the domestic stage and, crucially for this to be worthwhile, make the team as good as when G&T play up front together.

 

Further to this, you then have to address the issue of cost, simply, we cant afford him unles we offload Xabi or Masch. Again, while on paper adding Villa for one of those may seem to be a positive (You can get loads of DMs for cheap yada yada yada, still not convicned meself like), you have to look at the dynamic of the team and the way we play to see if losing one of them will result in us being better or not. Sure Gerrard can move back to the midfield, but for me, thats both a waste of his attacking talents and, Im probably in a minority here, i dont think he's as a good a midfielder as either Xabi or Masch, he can do it all but that versatility can be a problem sometimes when he tries to do too much. As with G&T you also have to look at the players in partnership and the fact that as a pair, they are greater than the sum of their parts, inspite of both being world class in the individuals in their own right.

 

So in a nutshell, to sign Villa we'd need to break up two key partnerships, thats two key world class parternships in our spine to accomodate a player. And for that reason Im out. If Xabi or Masch were to leave and that money covered the Villa signing, then Id be very tempted, but you'd still be faced with breaking up the G&T partnership, or playing Villa out of position or changing formation, so nay, nay and thrice nay.

 

Thats the beauty oif the Johnson deal, right back is our weakest position (Thats not a reflection on Bobs ability, but more a reflection of the higher standards of the current squad), we buy a player who plays RB and stick him in there. No changes to partnerships, other than for Johnson himself and no change in style or formation. So if Rafa wants a left sided forward, do a loan for Downing, sell some rubbish to sign Silva, or my personal preference, buy Henry who can cover the left flank and Torres, but whatever you do Rafa, buy a player who can slot in where needed and without breaking up the partnerships we have and the formation we have.

 

How many games did those two start together last season? I seem to recall them being out injured quite a lot last year, and if we don't buy quality to to replace them when they are we are doomed to lose out on the league title again......

 

Man Utd had four top class forwards last year, we had the mentioned two, who were out injured a lot, and that is the number one factor in why the Scum won the league.....

 

It seems like a lot of people on here want a great first 11, but don't want to good players on the bench or the squad because they can disrupt great partnerships....

 

Do you honestly have this little faith in Rafa that he would not play to our greatest strenghts?

 

The better players we have in the squad the greater the competition and options we would have....

 

If by signing Aguero and Villa (not very probable I know, done to prove a point)) Rafa would have a problem naming his team every weekend, and we'd be better of for it.....

[Aurelioooo]

Out

 

Kuyt 4mil

Riera 7mil

Dossena 8mil

Masherano swap Toure + Eto'o

 

In

 

Toure + Eto'o

Robben

Johnson

:thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Whelan]

How many games did those two start together last season? I seem to recall them being out injured quite a lot last year, and if we don't buy quality to to replace them when they are we are doomed to lose out on the league title again......

 

Man Utd had four top class forwards last year, we had the mentioned two, who were out injured a lot, and that is the number one factor in why the Scum won the league.....

 

It seems like a lot of people on here want a great first 11, but don't want to good players on the bench or the squad because they can disrupt great partnerships....

 

Do you honestly have this little faith in Rafa that he would not play to our greatest strenghts?

 

The better players we have in the squad the greater the competition and options we would have....

 

If by signing Aguero and Villa (not very probable I know, done to prove a point)) Rafa would have a problem naming his team every weekend, and we'd be better of for it.....

 

Man U had Rooney and Ronaldo and they spent 30 million on Berbatov, the only reason they had Tevez is because they have him on loan, at 5 million a year. As soon as they have been forced to pay the full 25 million for him, they have passed! Why? Because they will not pay 25 million pounds just for cover!

 

We cannot afford to spend 45 million pounds on cover!

 

Gerrard and Torres cannot be improved upon, not for 100 million pounds, so you look for good solid cover i.e. Benny. It is much better to spend the money on alternative options such as a class left winger, don't forget that is what Ronaldo is primarily a winger! Spending 25 million is much better option for us as a team than spending 45 million on Villa or whomever

[redrosetints]

How many games did those two start together last season? I seem to recall them being out injured quite a lot last year, and if we don't buy quality to to replace them when they are we are doomed to lose out on the league title again......

 

Man Utd had four top class forwards last year, we had the mentioned two, who were out injured a lot, and that is the number one factor in why the Scum won the league.....

 

It seems like a lot of people on here want a great first 11, but don't want to good players on the bench or the squad because they can disrupt great partnerships....

 

Do you honestly have this little faith in Rafa that he would not play to our greatest strenghts?

 

The better players we have in the squad the greater the competition and options we would have....

 

If by signing Aguero and Villa (not very probable I know, done to prove a point)) Rafa would have a problem naming his team every weekend, and we'd be better of for it.....

 

Hold on matey, check out the avatar and the amount of times Im called a rafapologist to know I have complete faith in Rafa and will always support him. However, I do have my own opinions which may or may not be in line with Rafas.

 

While I agree to a certain extent with your post, I think we have to acknowledge that spending 40m on a player whose arrival would mean the break up of two hugely succesful partnerships which form our spine and possibly change our formation is a huge risk. Fergie has built a style and system over 25 years, rebuilding gradually, piece by piece and safe in the knowledge that if he spent 30m and it didnt work out, he could go out and spend that figure again. At LFC, we can't afford a Schevchenko or a Veron, neither in terms of resultson the pitch and our title challenege nor our finances.

 

I think we need to spend big on positions where we can clearly upgrade the starting positions. And if we cant do that, spend decent money on improving the first alternates, players like Babel and Lucas. So spend big on a Rb or LW, Johnson and Silva or Henry if you want to name names. Otherwise players like Simao, Maxi, hell even Crouch, Sissoko, Owen and Murphy would be upgrades at this point.

 

In fact, if you lose Voronin, Babel, Pennant and Lucas and got Owen, Crouch, Murphy and Sissoko in we'd be strogner.

[Whelan]

Spending 25 million is much better option for us as a team than spending 45 million on Villa or whomever

 

I mean to say, spending 25 million on Silva is a much better option for us than spending 45 million on Villa.

[Glen C]

For me its worth noting that Alonso played well all season but our performances on the pitch as a team did not pick up until Mascherano came into form in the second half of the season.

 

Mascherano's hard work on the pitch gives space for alonso to dictate our play. Alonso doesn't look as good playing with anyone else. Mascherano is vital to the team.

[GRADY]

I mean to say, spending 25 million on Silva is a much better option for us than spending 45 million on Villa.

 

Id probably go along with that. Its easy for our heads to get turned by big names but I think most of us would agree we need a top wide player of somewhere near the level of torres and gerrard (difficult I know)

 

Personally I think Silva is the player we need to be in for.

 

If not maybe Robben although I cant see Rafa going for him.

 

After that well Id be in for ashley young although no doubt the fee would be very high with o'neil trying to make us have it again!

[Red Phoenix]

Dear Rafa and Glen,

 

Please tell us what's going on, mainly so that we can move onto whatever's happening next.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

A Red who currently loathes the transfer window with a passion.

[zico]

Man U had Rooney and Ronaldo and they spent 30 million on Berbatov, the only reason they had Tevez is because they have him on loan, at 5 million a year. As soon as they have been forced to pay the full 25 million for him, they have passed! Why? Because they will not pay 25 million pounds just for cover!

 

We cannot afford to spend 45 million pounds on cover!

 

Gerrard and Torres cannot be improved upon, not for 100 million pounds, so you look for good solid cover i.e. Benny. It is much better to spend the money on alternative options such as a class left winger, don't forget that is what Ronaldo is primarily a winger! Spending 25 million is much better option for us as a team than spending 45 million on Villa or whomever

 

I did not say we could affort 45 million on a cover, and I don't disagree that perhaps the money would be more wisely spent on a left winger, (if we got a world class player), but we need at least 3 class forwards to challenge in Europe and the Premiership.

 

I just don't agree with everyone on here who seems to think that buying a good player that competes with Torres and Gerrard for a place in the team when they are fit, and are able to fill their boots when they are out, is a bad thing.....

 

Competition breeds success, it's like that in business and it's like that in football.

[neilr]

 

Personally I think Silva is the player we need to be in for.

 

If not maybe Robben although I cant see Rafa going for him.

 

After that well Id be in for ashley young although no doubt the fee would be very high with o'neil trying to make us have it again!

 

I think you are on the right tracks and don't believe we have the cash to even think about adding Villa (or similar) at this moment in time, i.e. we are not at that stage yet were we can afford to make just the 1 big signing as opposed to where we are now where we probably need to make 3 (although we are getting closer).

 

So a summer of Johnson, one of Silva / Robben (even Simao although not as good as the other 2), and then a good quality with potential back up striker (like Kerrison maybe) would be good business for us.

 

Selling the likes of Degen, Dossena, Voronin, Itandje, Plessis, possibly Arbeloa (only if he really wants to go back to Spain) and Babel, and holding the others (including Masch & Alonso). Realistic and withing the realms of what we'd normally spend.

[zico]

Hold on matey, check out the avatar and the amount of times Im called a rafapologist to know I have complete faith in Rafa and will always support him. However, I do have my own opinions which may or may not be in line with Rafas.

 

While I agree to a certain extent with your post, I think we have to acknowledge that spending 40m on a player whose arrival would mean the break up of two hugely succesful partnerships which form our spine and possibly change our formation is a huge risk. Fergie has built a style and system over 25 years, rebuilding gradually, piece by piece and safe in the knowledge that if he spent 30m and it didnt work out, he could go out and spend that figure again. At LFC, we can't afford a Schevchenko or a Veron, neither in terms of resultson the pitch and our title challenege nor our finances.

 

I think we need to spend big on positions where we can clearly upgrade the starting positions. And if we cant do that, spend decent money on improving the first alternates, players like Babel and Lucas. So spend big on a Rb or LW, Johnson and Silva or Henry if you want to name names. Otherwise players like Simao, Maxi, hell even Crouch, Sissoko, Owen and Murphy would be upgrades at this point.

 

In fact, if you lose Voronin, Babel, Pennant and Lucas and got Owen, Crouch, Murphy and Sissoko in we'd be strogner.

 

Appologies if you saw thas as a go at you, because it certainly was not.

 

I was merely expressing my view that the better the players we have and the internal competition in the team, the better chance we will have of winning no 19.

 

Torres was fantastic last season(07/08 ) , and a bit on and off this season, mostly due to form and his injuries (08/09).

 

Gerrard is a fantastic player especially given space facing the opposition, but against teams that have him playing with his back towards their goal you can find plenty players that probably would do better.

 

For example, I would rather have Aguero playing behind Torres and Gerrard bombing forward from midfield against a team parked in front of their goal (stoke, sunderland, fulham aso), than Gerrard playing in that role and Alonso/Mascherano sitting back controlling midfield.

 

This will all depend on the opposition and their gameplan, and I can't see a better coach then Rafa to compose a team to beat any opposition given enough talent and options....

 

Other games it will be better to use Gerrard in that role... And it certainly would be better to have Aguero playing in Torres position rather than N'gog (a talent I rate, but no developed enough to try to fill Torres' boots), when Torres is out injured or tired aso.

 

How did Barca piss on Utd in the final? They changed their formation by playing Messi in a more central role and totally took away Demento's defensive gameplan... The rest is history....

 

We can be worried about a lot of things;

 

Our debt, Scum surpassing our records, Alonso leaving (which has been my biggest fear this transfer window, as I don't see to many to replace him, and I have him down as our player of the season), Demento spending his 100 million transfer buget wisely, injuries to Torres and Gerrard aso,

 

but buying quality footballers to increase our options and quality is not one of those worries.

 

I'd rather we buy big and secure quality over a couple of transfer windows than try to spread the money to improve to many positions in one and not know what the end result will be... (of course we never know even when spending big either, but the odds are better for sure)

 

Personally I think we need a forward, a winger (preferrably one who can play on both sides) and a right back (If Arbeloa goes, and he should if he does not sign an extension, we need two right backs)

 

To raise funds I would consider selling Dossena (We have Aurelio and Insua), Babel (don't think he will make it), Voronin (should get decent money based on his season in Germany), Leto (should get decent money based on his season in Greece), Lukas (i'd give Spearing a chance) and Arbeloa (if he does not sign an extension).

 

Fingers crossed for an improved team and a successful 09/10 season..

 

Silly season and transfer windows is messing with my head, I kid you not...

[WhiskeyJar]

Uruguayan midfielder Nicolas Lodeiro is said to have caught the eye of Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez.

 

The 20-year-old Lodeiro is currently contracted to Primera Division Uruguaya side Nacional.

 

Lodeiro is highly-raterd and shone when representing the Uruguay Under 20s in the South American championship played this year in Venezuela.

 

The playmaker is currently owned by the company BBC Sport, who bought him in February among other young players of the Uruguayan U20 national side.

 

Seriously??

 

 

Sky Sports | Football News | Premier League | Liverpool | Rafa linked with Uruguayan

[Clazsic]

So first up, if we signed Villa, could G, T and V play as an attacking front 3 in the system we perfected last year ? While I see that any new player may take time to adjust, we need a new player, esp a 40m one, to bed in quickly, which means him plugging into the existing team, formation and setup, can villa do that ?

.....

So in a nutshell, to sign Villa we'd need to break up two key partnerships, thats two key world class parternships in our spine to accomodate a player. ......

Have you considered the fact that torres and villa combination is proven in their national team? They have xavi and iniesta, while we have gerrard and xabi. Tactically, a 4-4-2 preference could be developed, but leaving macherano on the bench or even when either xabi/masch/gerrard got injured, it will still work out fine. A 40m on the bench? nah.. It could just be the key to our title coup, if you remembered that gerrard/torres injuries play a big part in us missing points last season. But again, it would depend on our spending power.

[Dogbert]

Uruguayan midfielder Nicolas Lodeiro is said to have caught the eye of Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez.

 

The 20-year-old Lodeiro is currently contracted to Primera Division Uruguaya side Nacional.

 

Lodeiro is highly-raterd and shone when representing the Uruguay Under 20s in the South American championship played this year in Venezuela.

 

The playmaker is currently owned by the company BBC Sport, who bought him in February among other young players of the Uruguayan U20 national side.

 

Seriously??

 

 

 

So thats where my licence fee goes.