Rafa should be sacked if he doesn't deliver title

[mooks]

Thats the thing, I said at the start of the season my expectations are for a decent title challenge which has so far been true, and that Benitez should be offered an extension of 2 or 3 seasons should he fulfil this objective. But all those points wasted because of his poor tactics and team selections have really fucked me off.

His 'poor tactics and team selections'?

 

Does this mean that if he had chosen different tactics and different team line-ups we would have done better?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Who the fuck got us in this position in the first place the tooth fairy.

 

That should've been the end of this thread.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Utter rubbish, you obviously are a little manipulator, I have said before and I'm sure others can testify or check out my history of posts that Rafa can be a great tactictition and one of the worlds best coaches, I have also said he has the potential to be right up their with shanks and paisley if he just altered a few things. As for the thread about him being sacked maybe I was a bit hasty but I have had enough of his blind faith in kuyt and our inablility to pick up points against poor opposition because of his negative ways.

 

You do know Shankly had a few barren years??? A few years where people thoughth he stuck with the players a bit too long. He himself said later he should have broken teams up earlier than he did. You'd have been on his back too no doubt, WE ARE NOT A CLUB THAT SACKS A MANAGER ON THE BACK OF ONE GAME, especially when it's united versus Chelsea. That's why you've pissed people off, because ye've come on here like a handbag shotuing the odds after United beat Chelsea, we have a poor game against Stoke, but we're still top of the league in fucking January:wallbutt:

[havarantagain]

don't agree with this sack raffa nonsense, but he needs to shut up about fergie and ignore the mind games and keep focused on the big picture. Improving his choice of player next time he gets money to spend wont go a miss either. We are top on the same points tally as this time last season, says more about our competitors than our improvement.

[Stouffer]

This place is fucking mental at the moment.

 

Shine on you crazy bastard, shine on.

[The 5th Benitel]

I'm not in the sack Rafa camp but, considering Chelsea are seemingly in transition and nowhere as good as in the last few seasons and the Mancs have had the odd slip plus their fixture conjestion, I'm starting to wonder if he'll ever be able to bring us the title. We got a few breaks at the start of the season (which is fair enough cos that's what you need to win the league) but since then we've slipped back into the same things that have cost us in the past. We can only judge at the end of the season but i dont think it's ridiculous to question if he can actually deliver the league if we fail again this season.

[zigackly]

I'm not in the sack Rafa camp but, considering Chelsea are seemingly in transition and nowhere as good as in the last few seasons and the Mancs have had the odd slip plus their fixture conjestion, I'm starting to wonder if he'll ever be able to bring us the title. We got a few breaks at the start of the season (which is fair enough cos that's what you need to win the league) but since then we've slipped back into the same things that have cost us in the past. We can only judge at the end of the season but i dont think it's ridiculous to question if he can actually deliver the league if we fail again this season.

 

Whilst I think that's fair comment, I'm not sure people appreciate the odds working against him fully. We probably have the players in the squad to win the league now, whereas before we possibly haven't had, but one thing we are massively short on is winning experience.

 

With very few exceptions that I can think of in any league, teams do not come from third or fourth place to win a league unless the players in the squad know what it takes and have been through a winning campaign beforehand. You can look through the last twenty or thirty years of history in any top flight league in the world, and apart from a few rare examples teams without this experience have to put in a close challenge before they gain the confidence and belief to push on and win it.

 

That's why many said at the start of the season that they would be happy with a decent challenge, because it shows us and the players that winning the league is possible. If he runs it close this season and fails, EVEN if it is to some extent down to mistakes he has made, I would like to see him given another season to take advantage of that, rather than split the squad up and start from scratch again.

 

If we fail to challenge until the end this year, or challenge and fail again next year, then questions should rightly be asked and even as a strong supporter of Benitez I would be asking the same ones.

[The 5th Benitel]

Whilst I think that's fair comment, I'm not sure people appreciate the odds working against him fully. We probably have the players in the squad to win the league now, whereas before we possibly haven't had, but one thing we are massively short on is winning experience.

 

With very few exceptions that I can think of in any league, teams do not come from third or fourth place to win a league unless the players in the squad know what it takes and have been through a winning campaign beforehand. You can look through the last twenty or thirty years of history in any top flight league in the world, and apart from a few rare examples teams without this experience have to put in a close challenge before they gain the confidence and belief to push on and win it.

 

That's why many said at the start of the season that they would be happy with a decent challenge, because it shows us and the players that winning the league is possible. If he runs it close this season and fails, EVEN if it is to some extent down to mistakes he has made, I would like to see him given another season to take advantage of that, rather than split the squad up and start from scratch again.

 

If we fail to challenge until the end this year, or challenge and fail again next year, then questions should rightly be asked and even as a strong supporter of Benitez I would be asking the same ones.

 

Hmm i'm not always convinced of the odds working against him shout. If yuo accept that none of our managers will quite have the same money as the mancs or Chelsea then he hasn't been too badly backed. How many other sides have got a 40m strike force a defensive mid that cost nearly 20m and two 7-8m defenders. Plus, 30m+ to spend on wingers. Add to that the best midfielder in the world and one of the best defenders in the league already here.

 

The reality is he's had 5 years and this is the only time we've been close.

 

I still cant decide where i stand on this but i don think the fact that the question should be asked should be dismissed out of hand.

[JMARKH]

You do know Shankly had a few barren years??? A few years where people thoughth he stuck with the players a bit too long. He himself said later he should have broken teams up earlier than he did. You'd have been on his back too no doubt, WE ARE NOT A CLUB THAT SACKS A MANAGER ON THE BACK OF ONE GAME, especially when it's united versus Chelsea. That's why you've pissed people off, because ye've come on here like a handbag shotuing the odds after United beat Chelsea, we have a poor game against Stoke, but we're still top of the league in fucking January:wallbutt:

 

We draw far too many games under Rafa, if you remember last season we actually only lost 4 times, two of them to the same opponent, but united still ended up winning the title even though they lost more games than us. I don't want Rafa sacked on the back of the stoke game, in fact I don't want him sacked at all as it would mean he hasn't delivered the goods, but he has made many mistakes this season. He needs to be less cautious and this business of relying on kuyt up front has to stop. If your going to play him as a striker then get someone up there with him as he can't do it alone, keane is a much better player and the way he is in and out the side despite him doing well in the last month or so is annoying. Especially when we need goals and he keeps him on the bench, its wrong.

[zigackly]

Hmm i'm not always convinced of the odds working against him shout. If yuo accept that none of our managers will quite have the same money as the mancs or Chelsea then he hasn't been too badly backed. How many other sides have got a 40m strike force a defensive mid that cost nearly 20m and two 7-8m defenders. Plus, 30m+ to spend on wingers. Add to that the best midfielder in the world and one of the best defenders in the league already here.

 

The reality is he's had 5 years and this is the only time we've been close.

 

I still cant decide where i stand on this but i don think the fact that the question should be asked should be dismissed out of hand.

 

But that's not at all what I am talking about, it's the lack of experience which is his biggest handicap now that the squad looks good enough, and I even pointed that out in my post.

 

I think you have to look at the first three years as rebuilding the squad after Ged packed it with cheap French drivel and having also to move on some players who were getting on a bit, like Henchoz, Hamann and Smicer.

 

Arguably he's only had a season and a half where the squad has been good enough to challenge and considering we have had two strong rivals for the title in that time it's a big ask to expect him to have won it already.

 

I do want to see a proper title challenge this season to show he's got it in him when he has the building blocks in place, but so far that's a tick in the box this season isn't it?

[zigackly]

JMARKH: you've made your point, does every post now have to be about Kuyt playing up front? Because if so then I can safely put you on ignore as you're cluttering the place up. Nothing personal, but we all get it now.

[The 5th Benitel]

But that's not at all what I am talking about, it's the lack of experience which is his biggest handicap now that the squad looks good enough, and I even pointed that out in my post.

 

I think you have to look at the first three years as rebuilding the squad after Ged packed it with cheap French drivel and having also to move on some players who were getting on a bit, like Henchoz, Hamann and Smicer.

 

Arguably he's only had a season and a half where the squad has been good enough to challenge and considering we have had two strong rivals for the title in that time it's a big ask to expect him to have won it already.

 

I do want to see a proper title challenge this season to show he's got it in him when he has the building blocks in place, but so far that's a tick in the box this season isn't it?

 

I'm not sure. We have got a better squad now but so have the other teams. Like i said before we had a fwe breaks earlier in the season (that's not a critism cos yuo need them to win the title) but we seem to have struggled to really push on from there. Plus, the same old problems are rearing their heads with us failing to convert draws into wins. So, it's not so much the standard of the personnel but the mindset and style of play that are holding us back and i'm not sure if Rafa can change that.

 

Basically, i'm dont know but at the end of the season i will definately be able to make my mind up.

[dandyman]

Jeez, I remember the good old days, when all we wanted was a title challenge, and don't you just know it, one comes along and that isn't good enough for us.

[millomred]

Agree with you Coop. There are some seriously disturbed knob`s on here now.

[The Thong]

No, but he should be sacked if we don't come a clear second. I think we need to be in the mix of it for a year - living and breathing a title race - before we will actually do it. There are plenty of precedents for that. We need the players to be hungry for and also feel the heat in a genuine title race. Ideally, we would win but I don't think that will happen - better though, we get the experience in the squad and Rafa gets rid of some of the shit in the summer and supplements with some more quality. Then I think we will be ready.

 

On the flip-side, it's taken him 5 years to get this far, hardly a stellar performance and I'm not convinced that he has the full backing of the board, club or fans. His contract is not sorted so he will be on the radar in the summer for other clubs unless sorted.

 

If he doesn't win it next season I'd sack him. 6 seasons and no title is for a club like ours just not acceptable. After years of going backwards, he has turned the tide, yes, and we now have quality and consistency - but not quite for an EPL title against the likes of the Mancs and Chavs.

 

The worrying thing is his recent behaviour. I'd be more happier if he would focus on LFC rather than Fergie or anyone else. This is the business end of the season and he should be directing his energy on maintaining our position rather than have public spats with x, y or z. We have Stevie for that.

 

With Gerrard's court case and Rafa's public duel, it's detracting from the main objective. Keep the momentum and play consistently. The key for the next four months is how he unlocks the Gerrard, Keane, Kuyt and Torres puzzle and I'm not confident that he knows what works best for when. I think he likes to think he knows but actually, he doesn't. :|

[redrosetints]

Indeed, he's right up there with the best tactictitions in the world.

 

Jade Goodey for one....

[redrosetints]

No, but he should be sacked if we don't come a clear second. I think we need to be in the mix of it for a year - living and breathing a title race - before we will actually do it. There are plenty of precedents for that. We need the players to be hungry for and also feel the heat in a genuine title race. Ideally, we would win but I don't think that will happen - better though, we get the experience in the squad and Rafa gets rid of some of the shit in the summer and supplements with some more quality. Then I think we will be ready.

 

On the flip-side, it's taken him 5 years to get this far, hardly a stellar performance and I'm not convinced that he has the full backing of the board, club or fans. His contract is not sorted so he will be on the radar in the summer for other clubs unless sorted.

 

If he doesn't win it next season I'd sack him. 6 seasons and no title is for a club like ours just not acceptable. After years of going backwards, he has turned the tide, yes, and we now have quality and consistency - but not quite for an EPL title against the likes of the Mancs and Chavs.

 

The worrying thing is his recent behaviour. I'd be more happier if he would focus on LFC rather than Fergie or anyone else. This is the business end of the season and he should be directing his energy on maintaining our position rather than have public spats with x, y or z. We have Stevie for that.

 

With Gerrard's court case and Rafa's public duel, it's detracting from the main objective. Keep the momentum and play consistently. The key for the next four months is how he unlocks the Gerrard, Keane, Kuyt and Torres puzzle and I'm not confident that he knows what works best for when. I think he likes to think he knows but actually, he doesn't. :|

 

Do you not think Rafa has done this, partly, to take the pressure of Stevie and the other players ? Ive heard nowt about SG on charges more about Fergie, Gill, refs and Rafa.

[Guest Dog Chaser]

Rafa close to signing a new deal...

BBC

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Liverpool | Benitez 'close' to Liverpool deal

[The Thong]

Do you not think Rafa has done this, partly, to take the pressure of Stevie and the other players ? Ive heard nowt about SG on charges more about Fergie, Gill, refs and Rafa.

 

Personally, I don't think he is but I guess the answer is somewhere in between. To bring in a point by point character assassination on Fergal is pretty full-on; in fact it's unprecedented from what I can tell. He could have done it in a newspaper article. It's a fair point though, Rafa gets all the headlines good or bad to detract from SG's battle. '

 

I'm not convinced that those tactics sort of work - like it or not Rafa will be thinking about the last three media comments he made, the press coverage and the circus that goes with it. I think it's too niaive to think that he doesn't care as he orchestrated and timed the attack. It probably means that he does care what Fergal, media and the FA thinks - in which case, the way I see it, it's a waste of his time. Moreover, because it has been seen to be a response to Fergals attack that LFC would be nervous.

 

No manager is perfect and we know that Rafa has his flaws but I just feel that in the business end of the season, the focus should be LFC, and only LFC. It's a massive cliche to say, yeah I'll do my talking on the field, but it;s true: it's what happens on the field that counts and like the other 3/4 sides, we have problems in a sustaining a high level of performance. If ever we need Rafa to dig-deep and inspire the players, then it is now. We are on the summit - which means that we have not lost it but now we need to hold our nerve to ensure we keep our noses ahead. EPL is in both Mancs and our hands so everything for play for.

[Kop4Ever2008]

Personally, I don't think he is but I guess the answer is somewhere in between. To bring in a point by point character assassination on Fergal is pretty full-on; in fact it's unprecedented from what I can tell. He could have done it in a newspaper article. It's a fair point though, Rafa gets all the headlines good or bad to detract from SG's battle. '

 

I'm not convinced that those tactics sort of work - like it or not Rafa will be thinking about the last three media comments he made, the press coverage and the circus that goes with it. I think it's too niaive to think that he doesn't care as he orchestrated and timed the attack. It probably means that he does care what Fergal, media and the FA thinks - in which case, the way I see it, it's a waste of his time. Moreover, because it has been seen to be a response to Fergals attack that LFC would be nervous.

 

No manager is perfect and we know that Rafa has his flaws but I just feel that in the business end of the season, the focus should be LFC, and only LFC. It's a massive cliche to say, yeah I'll do my talking on the field, but it;s true: it's what happens on the field that counts and like the other 3/4 sides, we have problems in a sustaining a high level of performance. If ever we need Rafa to dig-deep and inspire the players, then it is now. We are on the summit - which means that we have not lost it but now we need to hold our nerve to ensure we keep our noses ahead. EPL is in both Mancs and our hands so everything for play for.

 

 

I'm sorry but i'm not buying into taking the pressure off Gerrard for an off field problem, the fact is, he bit to that red faced cunts mind games! and it blew up in his face we dropped points and they battered the Chavs!

 

He needs at least a second place finish this season and it has to go to the final day of the season

 

Like some one said he has had 5 years to get us where we are and we have to make the most of the likes of Chavs Mancs and Arse all having a below par season

[shaunstrudwick]

But that's not at all what I am talking about, it's the lack of experience which is his biggest handicap now that the squad looks good enough, and I even pointed that out in my post.

 

Rafa knew this when he took us on though

 

and more importantly the board went to get Rafa because he coulddeliver against the odds - like he did at Valencia to break the Barca/Madrid monopoly for a couple of seasons

 

i agree that winning it once will make all the difference for the future title challanges but how many more years do you give him to deliver?

 

personally i think i'd give him another if we finished 2nd this year - especially as we have no idea what will be going on at board level this summer

[sean_dundee]

i really love the way we play football,its so exciting and well worth the money.love the defencive midfielders too that barely cross the halfway line,especially lucas,!and kuyts goalscoring record is superb!

we are so positive too,its also great business spending 20 million on keane,really shrewd.rafas scared of fckin losing and we draw too many games due to his fcking ridiculous team selections and subs..he might be a nice guy but for fucks sake we should have had this title in the bag,we will probably scrape in the top 4 again,and its all his fault cos we are too fuckin negative and play boring shite football...some of u fuckin rose tinted cunts get on my fckin nerves,the same people that if rafa gets sacked will be saying ..he had to go we were shite! u need more than players that fcking run around a lot,i cant believe some of the shite i watch most weeks,its a fucking disgrace to the club!!! and u can all go fuck yourselves if u start prattling on about fuckin negged..whatever that fuckin means

[JMARKH]

I'm sorry but i'm not buying into taking the pressure off Gerrard for an off field problem, the fact is, he bit to that red faced cunts mind games! and it blew up in his face we dropped points and they battered the Chavs!

 

He needs at least a second place finish this season and it has to go to the final day of the season

 

Like some one said he has had 5 years to get us where we are and we have to make the most of the likes of Chavs Mancs and Arse all having a below par season

 

Ye I think so to, if we don't win it I'll lay the blame on Rafa's tactical mistakes against hull at home, fulham at home and stoke away and also his pathetic decision to leave keane on bench in 2 of them games.

[JMARKH]

i really love the way we play football,its so exciting and well worth the money.love the defencive midfielders too that barely cross the halfway line,especially lucas,!and kuyts goalscoring record is superb!

we are so positive too,its also great business spending 20 million on keane,really shrewd.rafas scared of fckin losing and we draw too many games due to his fcking ridiculous team selections and subs..he might be a nice guy but for fucks sake we should have had this title in the bag,we will probably scrape in the top 4 again,and its all his fault cos we are too fuckin negative and play boring shite football...some of u fuckin rose tinted cunts get on my fckin nerves,the same people that if rafa gets sacked will be saying ..he had to go we were shite! u need more than players that fcking run around a lot,i cant believe some of the shite i watch most weeks,its a fucking disgrace to the club!!! and u can all go fuck yourselves if u start prattling on about fuckin negged..whatever that fuckin means

 

Negged is what you get when from Rafa's henchmen on here when you speak a bit of truth, I have been negged many times myself by the same kind of people, its great, look at it as something to be proud of, it means your not a robot. I've given you a rep anyway but it might be a drop in the ocean!

[The Thong]

Mancs, Chavs and Gooners have also all been inconsistent and at times wank. We are all in the same boat bar the Gooners who are almost out of it. Kiddyfiddler Wenger knows how to win titles so the Gooners are always going to be a threat or at any rate, capable to putting a spanner in the works.

 

Saying that we have been playing shit at times is the truth, esy, but FFS it's the same for the rest of the bell-ends.

 

I honestly think that the Mancs and the Chavs have a better squad so it us up to Rafa to extract the best out of the players for a sustained run, not a cup run but a sustained level of performance. Makes to realise what Martin O'Neil has done with Villa. He may not have the best but he sure can turn shit into gold. Rafa should focus on that rather than trying to create a smoke screen to mask concerns about squad and performance.