Give it up, Hillary...

[kelster]

I just can't see Obama winning the presidential election. While he has all but beaten Hillary, he only managed to beat her in one of the six largest states, although Florida didn't count. I haven't actually worked it out, but I reckon if the Democrat nomination progress was winner takes all like the Republican nominations and the actual election then Hillary would be out of sight.

 

The Democrats have got the problem of trying to pick a high enough profile candidate and one that is not so polarising, as both Obama and Hillary are in there own ways. In the end John Edwards may have been a better choice for them. The Republicans will probably be able to mobilise enough voters to beat either of them and will be helped by enough Democrat/floating voters not going for the other candidate due to the bad blood that has existed.

[Duncan Clench]

Well as far as I can make out from Blighty the Republicans will have more money for the Election campaign so Obama won't get in anyway. I hope he does though.... but Americans aren't known for voting intelligently. How Bush got in this last time is beyond me.

 

I just hope Obama has billions to spend on his campaign and has got some clever tricks up his sleeve. Can't be too hard to make a republican look like a twat can it?

[Mr.Smoketoomuch]

All this Pastor Wright stuff, I honestly dont see what he's said which is so wrong.

 

 

9/11 was America's chickens coming home to roost and so it doesnt matter if he's Obama's former Pastor.

 

 

 

It sums them up for me. After 7 years they still dont get it.

 

Seriously?

 

Racist remarks about white people? You might say they weren't, but if a white man had made general judgements and comments about colored people like Wright did about white people, no doubt he would be classified as a racist.

 

U.S government created HIV to kill the black man?

 

Whites to church in the morning and Ku Klux Klan meetings at night?

 

Right. They deserved it? Ok, as a 23 year old, naive and pretty left-wing student in 2001 I wasn't far from having similar thoughts. No doubt the U.S has done some nasty things around the globe since WWII. This has to be judged in the light of the cold war, though. No doubt the paranoina made them use some power that wasn't right, but the alternative was far worse.

 

After 7 years you still believe that?

[Section_31]

I think she's probably poisoned the well as far as Obama is concerned now.

 

I was reading today that some people said they wouldn't vote for him because he's muslim (!) and that a phoney campaign was being conducted by Clinton to propogate the myth that he is.

 

The race card, slurs all to try and cling onto a desperate shot for power, Obama is a man who could change the world and his own party have fucked him before he's even got off the ground. What a fucking joke.

[WaltonRed]

Seriously?

 

Racist remarks about white people? You might say they weren't, but if a white man had made general judgements and comments about colored people like Wright did about white people, no doubt he would be classified as a racist.

 

U.S government created HIV to kill the black man?

 

Whites to church in the morning and Ku Klux Klan meetings at night?

 

Right. They deserved it? Ok, as a 23 year old, naive and pretty left-wing student in 2001 I wasn't far from having similar thoughts. No doubt the U.S has done some nasty things around the globe since WWII. This has to be judged in the light of the cold war, though. No doubt the paranoina made them use some power that wasn't right, but the alternative was far worse.

 

After 7 years you still believe that?

 

After 7 years I still believe what? That they deserved it? Well the innocent people who were killed did'nt but you can only push people around for so long before they want to fight back.

 

The alternative was far worse? Its no different my man.

 

And as for doing some 'nasty things' they have a monopoly on it. Guatemala, Chile, Venezuela, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nicaragua the list is endless and they did it all.

 

As for Pastor Wright I did'nt know he'd said that about White people but at the end of the day whites did go to church and then KKK meetings at night back in the day so he's right there.

 

Aid's developed to keep the black man down? Thats pooh obviously but he's entitled to his opinion.

 

Were as he'd be dismissed as a crack pot here, the yanks lap all that bollocks up.

[Red '84]

Even though I want her to win it may be time.

 

Chris you are in for one hell of a fucking suprise if you think Obama will mend anything.

 

Even if he beats McCain and I dont think he will (although I do want him to win) then he'll get shot in some conspiracy shit!

 

dont think anything will change to be honest, still be the same sh1t.

the only real difference between democrats and republicans is that the republicans dont really give a fook what people think of them

[Chris]

I keep waking up, hoping to log onto cnn.com to see that she's stepped out of the race. No such luck yet.

[greenoak]

Its matters not a jot when she hangs up and conceeds.

 

Obama has zero chance of winning anyway. Americans only hace McCain to look forward to. He has all the money. Obama is almost black and muslim, therefore a large % of voters would rather vote republican than a black muslim. History tells us the Americans are not smart voters.

 

Once the republicans start throwing the dirt around the swing of voters away from Obama will be noticeable. It will get dirty very very quickly. The white racists with the money will be spending big to keep him at bay. Obama has no aces to throw back. All he says is change change change.

 

The american mantra would be lets play safe, Obama is to big of a risk.

[Chris]

Its matters not a jot when she hangs up and conceeds.

 

Obama has zero chance of winning anyway. Americans only hace McCain to look forward to. He has all the money. Obama is almost black and muslim, therefore a large % of voters would rather vote republican than a black muslim. History tells us the Americans are not smart voters.

 

Once the republicans start throwing the dirt around the swing of voters away from Obama will be noticeable. It will get dirty very very quickly. The white racists with the money will be spending big to keep him at bay. Obama has no aces to throw back. All he says is change change change.

 

The american mantra would be lets play safe, Obama is to big of a risk.

 

You come across as extremely arrogant, man. One of the biggest know alls on here. You overstate the faith even republican voters have in McCain. He's far from uniting that party and in terms of money, Obama has been able to raise more than anyone in history during the primary system.

 

I'd say it's on a knife edge, but to say that her has no chance of winning is ridiculous. He's come through every obstacle stronger and he's got a great chance in November.

[andyfm]

I see Obama as a very charismatic person who thinks he knows better than everbody else what they need and reckons he can forge alliances between left and right. Good luck with that. He's just like Tony Blair back in the day with his third way bullshit. Charismatic idealist politicians are rather dangerous because people should not treat elected officials like rock stars. I distrust Obama simply because talking about Change as a policy is utter bullshit. Soundbite politics with little substance, how's that not politics as usual?

 

I already left England once, I don't want it recreated here, thank you very much.

 

For those asking how Bush got elected last time, the reason was that the Democrats put a very bad choice of candidate up. Choosing a New England liberal when Bush was there for the taking was political suicide. Even I called that one at the time. There is a reason Bill Clinton did so well for the Democrats, he was a southerner. Kerry was never going to appeal to the south, and in contrast to Obama he had absolutely no charisma. Look at the latest Labour leaders since the electoral disaster of Michael Foot... Brown (Scottish), Blair (Scottish), Smith (Scottish), Kinnock (Welsh). They appeal to the regions, and don't offend the more cosmopolitan areas.

 

It would be like the Tories putting up an uncharasmatic leader with a double barrelled name up against a sitting prime minister who took Britain into an unjust war in Iraq. Hang on a sec...

 

Again the general election is there for the taking by the Democrats. They are doing a great job of screwing it up again.

 

Rev Wright is a complete nutter by the way. If you've seen a good selection of his speeches (and not just the inflammatory soundbites which none of us trust as good evidence given our tabloid distrust), he's clearly insane. The way to racial harmony is not blaming the US government for inventing AIDS to commit genocide on African Americans.

 

I actually thought the same way as many here at first until I saw a big clip of that particular speech!

[Stu Monty]

I'm a bit like Walton Red in that I'm really losing all hope that changing the crew at the top is going to change anything, or that they want to change anything for that matter.

 

I was reading an excellent article on the major geopolitical issues that are facing the major players in the near and not-so-near future this week; it was in The Nation. The US are ramping up their navy in a massive way to try and control shipping lanes and resources overseas that China and Russia will be contending for. I would recommend this article to anyone; it has stuff that people may already know but other things that I found intriguing (such as Georgia, the country, being a really important ally for both sides to win due to a massive oil pipeline). Lenghty but interesting: The New Geopolitics of Energy

 

The Democrats won't care for democracy very much more than the republicans do, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. The wife of the man who sent the US forces down to Mexico to fight the Zapatistas (and crush their quest for a fair democracy) running on a democrat ticket is laughable. They'll care for resource, and how to secure it, and the continuation of forcing open markets through any means necessary.

[Paul]

Clinton has thrown this election away with her leap to negative campaigning. If she'd simply kept chipping away at Obama's lack of policies, she'd have been a shoe-in. I also was never convincd by her tub-thumping rhetoric about the use of force - espcially against Iran. It always struck me as playing to the crowd.

 

It seems to me that McCain will win the presidential election by default. I just don't see America electing a black president - especially one who stands for nothing except generic change. And he's still got those cold, dead eyes.

[Jose Jones]

Clinton has thrown this election away with her leap to negative campaigning. If she'd simply kept chipping away at Obama's lack of policies, she'd have been a shoe-in. I also was never convincd by her tub-thumping rhetoric about the use of force - espcially against Iran. It always struck me as playing to the crowd.

 

It seems to me that McCain will win the presidential election by default. I just don't see America electing a black president - especially one who stands for nothing except generic change. And he's still got those cold, dead eyes.

 

Well the way I see it, the president has the final say but much of the decisions and policies are made by clever people appointed by the president. Therefore the policies under Clinton, Obama - and even a middle of the road republican guy like McCain won't be that much different.

 

Obama then has the beating of Clinton because he's new, fresh, and inspirational. Standing for change and inspiring people is a good way to become president, because that's what the President really is - a figurehead. It's why JFK is remembered so highly, few good speaches and inspired people. Policy wise he was really no different than Nixon.

 

Whether Obama beats McCain I guess comes down to how much America holds against the repulicans, or just Bush. It'll be close maybe, but a shit war (supported by McCain) and a failing economy (delivered by the republicans) might be stronger reasons than we appreciate not being yanks. Obama will also get a lot more airplay for his rhetoric, which is his strong point, once the presidential formalities start.

[Moo]

Obama's policies may just end up being the same as all the other's but it concerns me that he doesn't voice them.

 

I'm not the most well read on US politics but I watch and listen and it seems to me that this man could be elected the most powerful on the planet based on his so-called charisma (I actually think it's a groundswell of people falling for the 'change' mantra, and what could be more of a change than a black fella in charge?).

 

I just find it amazing, and very worrying, that what he stands for and his personal beliefs and political policies are not particularly well known.

[Paul]

Obama's policies may just end up being the same as all the other's but it concerns me that he doesn't voice them.

 

I'm not the most well read on US politics but I watch and listen and it seems to me that this man could be elected the most powerful on the planet based on his so-called charisma (I actually think it's a groundswell of people falling for the 'change' mantra, and what could be more of a change than a black fella in charge?).

 

I just find it amazing, and very worrying, that what he stands for and his personal beliefs and political policies are not particularly well known.

 

Me too.

[WaltonRed]

Its matters not a jot when she hangs up and conceeds.

 

Obama has zero chance of winning anyway. Americans only hace McCain to look forward to. He has all the money. Obama is almost black and muslim, therefore a large % of voters would rather vote republican than a black muslim. History tells us the Americans are not smart voters.

 

Once the republicans start throwing the dirt around the swing of voters away from Obama will be noticeable. It will get dirty very very quickly. The white racists with the money will be spending big to keep him at bay. Obama has no aces to throw back. All he says is change change change.

 

The american mantra would be lets play safe, Obama is to big of a risk.

 

Almost Black? How does that work? He's mixed race sure but if you asked him he'd say he's Black like most mixed race people do.

 

Stu, good article. I think over the next few years we will see a definite escalation from the U.S against China as they attempt to try and curtail them while they can.

[chance the dog]

I see Obama as a very charismatic person who thinks he knows better than everbody else what they need and reckons he can forge alliances between left and right. Good luck with that. He's just like Tony Blair back in the day with his third way bullshit. Charismatic idealist politicians are rather dangerous because people should not treat elected officials like rock stars. I distrust Obama simply because talking about Change as a policy is utter bullshit. Soundbite politics with little substance, how's that not politics as usual?

 

I already left England once, I don't want it recreated here, thank you very much.

 

For those asking how Bush got elected last time, the reason was that the Democrats put a very bad choice of candidate up. Choosing a New England liberal when Bush was there for the taking was political suicide. Even I called that one at the time. There is a reason Bill Clinton did so well for the Democrats, he was a southerner. Kerry was never going to appeal to the south, and in contrast to Obama he had absolutely no charisma. Look at the latest Labour leaders since the electoral disaster of Michael Foot... Brown (Scottish), Blair (Scottish), Smith (Scottish), Kinnock (Welsh). They appeal to the regions, and don't offend the more cosmopolitan areas.

 

It would be like the Tories putting up an uncharasmatic leader with a double barrelled name up against a sitting prime minister who took Britain into an unjust war in Iraq. Hang on a sec...

 

Again the general election is there for the taking by the Democrats. They are doing a great job of screwing it up again.

 

Rev Wright is a complete nutter by the way. If you've seen a good selection of his speeches (and not just the inflammatory soundbites which none of us trust as good evidence given our tabloid distrust), he's clearly insane. The way to racial harmony is not blaming the US government for inventing AIDS to commit genocide on African Americans.

 

I actually thought the same way as many here at first until I saw a big clip of that particular speech!

 

Spot on!

[Stu Monty]

Almost Black? How does that work? He's mixed race sure but if you asked him he'd say he's Black like most mixed race people do.

 

Stu, good article. I think over the next few years we will see a definite escalation from the U.S against China as they attempt to try and curtail them while they can.

 

I think it was Owen who put me onto The Nation website a few years back, it's superb mate.

[WaltonRed]

That Aids story is a well known CIA conspiracy though, if the fella believes it then he believes it.

 

Its not as if we are talking about a bunch of lovely fella's with a spotless track record now are we?

[WaltonRed]

The Missing Debate

 

another ace article from that site.

[Mr.Smoketoomuch]

After 7 years I still believe what? That they deserved it? Well the innocent people who were killed did'nt but you can only push people around for so long before they want to fight back.

 

The alternative was far worse? Its no different my man.

 

And as for doing some 'nasty things' they have a monopoly on it. Guatemala, Chile, Venezuela, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nicaragua the list is endless and they did it all.

 

As for Pastor Wright I did'nt know he'd said that about White people but at the end of the day whites did go to church and then KKK meetings at night back in the day so he's right there.

 

Aid's developed to keep the black man down? Thats pooh obviously but he's entitled to his opinion.

 

Were as he'd be dismissed as a crack pot here, the yanks lap all that bollocks up.

 

 

That's not even remotely true. Though they have made some 50+ interventions since WWII, and supported some bad regimes and dodgy characters, they have also fought some. It's not like the people in those countries were united in their opposition against U.S intervention. As for the monopoly on nastiness (post WWII), I give you Stalins Gulag camps, second only to Holocaust in this line of business, Maos land reform and the great leap forward, Rwanda, Srebrenica, apartheid in South Africa and the list goes on.

 

But back to the topic of this thread: I am also struggling to find out what Obamas political programme actually consits of apart from "change". I guess that Gordon Brown was very, and sadly, wrong when he a few years back predicted that the era of stardom in politics was coming to an end. Obama and the recent election of Boris Johnson as mayor of London, goes to show that.

 

About six months ago I thought about betting on Clinton as the next president. The bookies were offering about even money. It's amazing how Hillary has squandered her great position and in the process throwing the Republicans a life line for the next president.

[WaltonRed]

That's not even remotely true. Though they have made some 50+ interventions since WWII, and supported some bad regimes and dodgy characters, they have also fought some. It's not like the people in those countries were united in their opposition against U.S intervention. As for the monopoly on nastiness (post WWII), I give you Stalins Gulag camps, second only to Holocaust in this line of business, Maos land reform and the great leap forward, Rwanda, Srebrenica, apartheid in South Africa and the list goes on.QUOTE]

 

You are either very naive or you dont know the facts.

 

Chile is just one example, a democratically elected leader with a clear mandate from the people ousted. Pinochet comes to power, thousands dissapear.

 

Guatemala another, again an elected leader ousted.

 

Venezueal, numerous attempts to get Chavez who again is democratically elected.

 

The list is endless, and some of the horrors they have rained down on people is why 9/11 happened and why a lot of people around the world dislike them.

 

You reap what you sow.

[rargh]

Has anyone seen that pic of the guy with the placard? "She couldn't satisfy her husband - she WON'T satisfy America."

[Section_31]

I'm a bit like Walton Red in that I'm really losing all hope that changing the crew at the top is going to change anything, or that they want to change anything for that matter.

 

I was reading an excellent article on the major geopolitical issues that are facing the major players in the near and not-so-near future this week; it was in The Nation. The US are ramping up their navy in a massive way to try and control shipping lanes and resources overseas that China and Russia will be contending for. I would recommend this article to anyone; it has stuff that people may already know but other things that I found intriguing (such as Georgia, the country, being a really important ally for both sides to win due to a massive oil pipeline). Lenghty but interesting: The New Geopolitics of Energy

 

The Democrats won't care for democracy very much more than the republicans do, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. The wife of the man who sent the US forces down to Mexico to fight the Zapatistas (and crush their quest for a fair democracy) running on a democrat ticket is laughable. They'll care for resource, and how to secure it, and the continuation of forcing open markets through any means necessary.

 

Interesting stuff that, sounds a bit like the clash of civilisations

 

India, Russia and China are the future, the West's days are numbered, and I reckon there'll be nothing more lethal than an American Empire in decline.

[WaltonRed]

Interesting stuff that, sounds a bit like the clash of civilisations

 

India, Russia and China are the future, the West's days are numbered, and I reckon there'll be nothing more lethal than an American Empire in decline.

 

They wont go quietly thats for sure, and its obvious they'd be prepared to battle it out in order to stay on top which is bound to spell trouble for the world in the long run.

 

I like that clash of civilisations stuff but Huntingdon is a bit of a pleb.