Paris shootings

[cloggypop]

This is a perfect example of the contortions that have led us to the right wing owning the debate.

It's probably more down to them owning the media.

[skend04]

The only possible explanation for Rico's existence is ISIS.

For every hero there has to be a villain.

[Rico1304]

It's probably more down to them owning the media.

And here comes the second wave.

[Rico1304]

For every hero there has to be a villain.

Apologist.

[cloggypop]

And here comes the second wave.

Are you saying that the UK media isn't owned by right wing owners with a vested interest?

[General Dryness]

And here comes the second wave.

[Hand Shandy]

[Hand Shandy]

[Rico1304]

Are you saying that the UK media isn't owned by right wing owners with a vested interest?

Since when did what I actually say matter? It's much easier to misrepresent what I said.

 

I made no comment on the uk media. The answer to your question is plainly no - unless you are a fucking idiot pushing an agenda. Or maybe you believe ALL TV, print, internet, radio and everything else that makes up the media is owned by the right wing.

 

If a bomb were to go off in Germany tonight what would be your first thought? 2nd world war shell or terrorist?

[Rico1304]

Oh look, they all think the same. Now there's a surprise.

[cloggypop]

I didn't say that though.

 

To be fair I probably should have said that not all UK media is right wing owned. It's only about 80%+ as a conservative estimate.

 

[Rico1304]

I didn't say that though

Go on then.

[cloggypop]

Go on then.

I've edited while you were typing.

[cloggypop]

I bet Rico didn't get a pair of Adidas Hamburg in navy and white with gum soles either.

[Rico1304]

I've edited while you were typing.

So I was right then?

[Hand Shandy]

Oh look, they all think the same. Now there's a surprise.

[cloggypop]

So I was right then?

You are possibly up to 20% correct.

 

And 80% wrong.

 

Not sure what the argument is really though.

[Rico1304]

You are possibly up to 20% correct.

 

And 80% wrong.

 

Not sure what the argument is really though.

Ok, so you brought the media into it, but don't know why. Fine. As you were.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some interesting thoughts on attacks like the recent ones in Europe.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36888201

 

With four attacks in southern Germany coming shortly after the mass murder of 84 people in Nice, counter-terrorism officials are struggling to detect a common thread. Is there a single, defining feature to these attacks that could offer clues on how to prevent more of them from happening?

On the surface, the answer would appear to be no. The truck driver in Nice was known to have had psychiatric problems and violent outbursts, yet he had a clear enough head to keep his plans hidden for months.

The mass murder he went on to commit was claimed by the so-called Islamic State (IS). As was the attack by the axe-wielding young Afghan who struck passengers on a German train and Sunday night's suicide bombing at a music festival in Ansbach.

Yet initial suspicions of an IS link to last Friday's shooting rampage in a Munich shopping mall have been replaced by something closer to an individual, non-political grievance by the perpetrator. His killing spree bears a striking similarity to recent gun rampages by disaffected teenagers at US college campuses.

Likewise, investigators have concluded that the killing of a Polish woman by a Syrian refugee in Reutlingen is not connected to terrorism.

'The lock snaps open'

Peter Aylward, who spent much of his career as a detective in the Metropolitan Police, then later as a forensic psychoanalyst at Broadmoor Psychiatric Hospital, says it is possible to find a common thread in the past history of murderers. He believes the clues are all in their dysfunctional backgrounds.

"It is a psychiatric problem," he says, "and such planning [as the Nice or Munich attacks] indicates a disordered personality. With such premeditation there is a desire to enact a form of revenge, and with such intent on causing major terror."

So why do we only see such a relatively small number of killing sprees, compared with the large number of people who suffer from psychiatric disorders and never go on to harm anyone?

"With a detailed look at the history of those perpetrators," says Mr Aylward, "what we see is a sort of combination-lock of numbers that if arranged in the right sequence then the lock snaps open and a murderous attack takes place."

He says far more work needs to be done to identify the signs leading up to such events before they happen.

'Broader cause'

All of this poses a major problem for US and European governments and intelligence agencies trying to stop the next mass killing. Mental health is not usually in their remit.

At a recent meeting of Western counter-terrorism officers in Washington, it was concluded that agencies well-practiced in confronting ideological organisations like IS were ill-equipped to deal with lone individuals bearing murderous personal grievances.

The challenge becomes even harder when a troubled individual with mental problems is cynically recruited by a terrorist organisation, thus blurring the lines between the two.

Gen Michael Hayden, a former director of the CIA and NSA, say the phenomenon "allows the truly troubled and the truly dangerous to reach for a broader cause that gives meaning to their alienation".

The concept of terrorist organisations preying on disturbed people to further their aims is not new. But given the vast scale of recent refugee movements and the enduring conflicts in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, it is a pattern likely to be repeated. All the more reason, says Mr Aylward, to help protect those most vulnerable to being exploited.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

This is an interesting read, too (from a few years back).  It basically argues that it's a mistake to regard suicide bombers as "just" bombers and ignore the obvious fact that they are also suicides.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929240-200-martyr-myth-inside-the-minds-of-suicide-bombers/

[Bjornebye]

Im sure none of them in the attacks mentioned above were actively involved with Isis. But, they are flooding the world with propaganda and people believe this shit. particularly social outcasts and the like. I knew a lad in school, lacked any social skills, he just couldn't be part of anything. he became gay at 16 and all of a sudden he came out of his shell and was the most flamboyant lad around. maybe he was always gay.... but I know lads that have been gay and just said "im gay" and got on with it. He seemed to need this social recognition to justify his own existence. I might well be wrong but there are shit loads of vulnerable peple who feel like outcasts that will do shit like Nice just to be a 'part of something' other than their own shit existence. The best thing that can be done is a full media blackout on all this shit. Cut down their defences at the end not the source. All they want is to be liked (by their peers) and acclaimed. Fuck them. Cut that away and they have fuck all. 

 

Disclaimer: I have fuck all against gays , live and let live. 

[Bjornebye]

[Sugar Ape]

This lad you knew Stig. Did he join the navy and move to Portsmouth...?

[razor]

Some interesting thoughts on attacks like the recent ones in Europe.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36888201

 

With four attacks in southern Germany coming shortly after the mass murder of 84 people in Nice, counter-terrorism officials are struggling to detect a common thread. Is there a single, defining feature to these attacks that could offer clues on how to prevent more of them from happening?

On the surface, the answer would appear to be no. The truck driver in Nice was known to have had psychiatric problems and violent outbursts, yet he had a clear enough head to keep his plans hidden for months.

The mass murder he went on to commit was claimed by the so-called Islamic State (IS). As was the attack by the axe-wielding young Afghan who struck passengers on a German train and Sunday night's suicide bombing at a music festival in Ansbach.

Yet initial suspicions of an IS link to last Friday's shooting rampage in a Munich shopping mall have been replaced by something closer to an individual, non-political grievance by the perpetrator. His killing spree bears a striking similarity to recent gun rampages by disaffected teenagers at US college campuses.

Likewise, investigators have concluded that the killing of a Polish woman by a Syrian refugee in Reutlingen is not connected to terrorism.

'The lock snaps open'

Peter Aylward, who spent much of his career as a detective in the Metropolitan Police, then later as a forensic psychoanalyst at Broadmoor Psychiatric Hospital, says it is possible to find a common thread in the past history of murderers. He believes the clues are all in their dysfunctional backgrounds.

"It is a psychiatric problem," he says, "and such planning [as the Nice or Munich attacks] indicates a disordered personality. With such premeditation there is a desire to enact a form of revenge, and with such intent on causing major terror."

So why do we only see such a relatively small number of killing sprees, compared with the large number of people who suffer from psychiatric disorders and never go on to harm anyone?

"With a detailed look at the history of those perpetrators," says Mr Aylward, "what we see is a sort of combination-lock of numbers that if arranged in the right sequence then the lock snaps open and a murderous attack takes place."

He says far more work needs to be done to identify the signs leading up to such events before they happen.

'Broader cause'

All of this poses a major problem for US and European governments and intelligence agencies trying to stop the next mass killing. Mental health is not usually in their remit.

At a recent meeting of Western counter-terrorism officers in Washington, it was concluded that agencies well-practiced in confronting ideological organisations like IS were ill-equipped to deal with lone individuals bearing murderous personal grievances.

The challenge becomes even harder when a troubled individual with mental problems is cynically recruited by a terrorist organisation, thus blurring the lines between the two.

Gen Michael Hayden, a former director of the CIA and NSA, say the phenomenon "allows the truly troubled and the truly dangerous to reach for a broader cause that gives meaning to their alienation".

The concept of terrorist organisations preying on disturbed people to further their aims is not new. But given the vast scale of recent refugee movements and the enduring conflicts in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, it is a pattern likely to be repeated. All the more reason, says Mr Aylward, to help protect those most vulnerable to being exploited.

 

Balls to these shades of grey.  I want BLACK and WHITE.

[Rico1304]

Balls to these shades of grey. I want BLACK and WHITE.

Fuck me, then all of the ISIS soldiers in Syria, Pakistan, Iran, Boku Haram (sp) in Nigeria are all mentally ill! That must be tens of thousands. Wow.