IF Kenny is binned

[reece289]

You compare one man at the end of his career with another at the comparative start of his. I am not a particular advocate of Martinez, but the blinkered retrospective viewpoint of some sectors of our support does us no good.

 

Yesterday's Independent contained a thinly veiled briefing from Cotton criticising Dalglish , if that was repeated at his exit interview, it will have done Kenny's cause no good.

 

Do you have a link to that.

 

Also are you the Xerxes1 from Rawk?

[kalasoma]

Anyone fancy doing the Swansea match thread? I would, except I'm not Randy Marsh.

[Antynwa]

The Martinez rumours are really coming up from everywhere.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The Martinez rumours are really coming up from everywhere.

 

That would just be daft. As daft as replacing Rafa with Hodgson.

[Lee909]

People and Sunday Star saying that FSG have lined up Roberto Martinez to take over, with Kenny being given a boardroom position.

 

This better be a load of bullshit.

I have respect for Martinez is doing but didnt welearn anything from what happened when we sacked Rafa for the flavour of the month.

[Torvald Utne]

The only one I'd be willing to see Kenny moved upstairs for is Rafa, anyone else I'd rather stick with what we have. Not a popular opinion on here I imagine but there it is.

[reece289]

This better be a load of bullshit.

I have respect for Martinez is doing but didnt welearn anything from what happened when we sacked Rafa for the flavour of the month.

 

He is a Rafa-lite really. Makes no sense to put him in over Rafa if that's the way they wish to play it.

 

Still the DOF role is the most important one over the next 7 years.

[Dicko]

If we go for Martinez we'll end up like Everton.

With Kenny doing an impression of Kendall coming back to try and sort us out for the seven millionth time.

[2pak]

I must be the only one who wouldn't mind a Martinez appointment. Coaches good football, is young and seems a respectable mgr.

 

I really think we should take a step back at this Club and look to the long term. We have gone through much pain last few years for a variety of reasons (ownership, bad appointments, transfer bungles etc).

 

Yes, we need to remain ambitious but our seemingly chosen methods of jumping straight back up are not working!

[Ne Moe Imya]

You compare one man at the end of his career with another at the comparative start of his. I am not a particular advocate of Martinez, but the blinkered retrospective viewpoint of some sectors of our support does us no good.

 

Yesterday's Independent contained a thinly veiled briefing from Cotton criticising Dalglish , if that was repeated at his exit interview, it will have done Kenny's cause no good.

 

I know I'm comparing one man at the end of his career with another at the start of his. I'm also comparing one Liverpool manager with his potential replacement, and my point is that if the best we can do is Martinez, we should keep Kenny.

 

Look, if we bring in someone on the Capello/Villas Boas-level, most will look past it them if we have another mixed summer and a 5th place finish next season. Because managers on that level have earned some trust when things are a bit wobbly, even if the improvement is slow.

 

The problem is that Martinez, much as I respect him as a manager with a lot of potential for the future, will not get that. If we finish 5th or 6th next season and have at least one buy that doesn't work out this summer, the fans will be divided about whether he should go or stay, because he hasn't earned the trust that those others have. And if it really goes pear-shaped and we're 10th at Christmas, we could be looking at another mid-season change and then we're really in trouble.

 

For that reason, Martinez right now for us would be a mistake. Sure, it's a risk that has a chance of paying off, but the odds are long and the situation is a dangerous one.

[zigackly]

Recent credentials far more clearly point to Benitez. Not only 2005 and 2006 wins, but 2007 final, 2009 challenge and being the top rated team in Europe.

 

So winning two trophies and nearly winning some other things in six years is a measure of how good Benitez is, but winning one trophy and nearly winning another thing in one year is not good enough in Kenny's case? Does not compute.

[MLB]

I like Martinez and I think he is a good young manager, but if Kenny is going to be replaced then it should be with someone who has a better record of recent success. I don't mean the relative success of keeping Wigan in the Premiership, but actually qualifying for the Champion's League and winning things. I don't see why FSG would get rid of Kenny for not qualifying for the CL and then be looking at Martinez as part of a "long-term plan". It would make more sense to bring Rafa back.

 

That being said, I still think Kenny will stay.

[manwiththestick]

I like Martinez but I'd rather he left Wigan and went somewhere else before being banded about as a potential Liverpool manager. Successfully staving off relegation for a few years should not be our barometer if/when we're looking for a new manager.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

So winning two trophies and nearly winning some other things in six years is a measure of how good Benitez is, but winning one trophy and nearly winning another thing in one year is not good enough in Kenny's case? Does not compute.

 

Yes, winning the European Cup - the best prize available - the FA Cup, challenging in the league, building the highest ranked team in Europe, and consistently getting into the Champions League is better than winning the Milk Cup and finishing 8th.

 

Well, it is to me. I know other people see things, erm, 'differently'.

[stringvest]

His name is Aitor Begiristain. Txiki is a nickname. Probably because he's the heir to the Tixilix empire or summat.

 

* cough *

[stringvest]

Yes, winning the European Cup - the best prize available - the FA Cup, challenging in the league, building the highest ranked team in Europe, and consistently getting into the Champions League is better than winning the Milk Cup and finishing 8th.

 

Well, it is to me. I know other people see things, erm, 'differently'.

 

Perhaps that's because other people just use the other eye as well. Then their noggin.

 

The weather's lovely down here today, isn't it?

[zigackly]

Yes, winning the European Cup - the best prize available - the FA Cup, challenging in the league, building the highest ranked team in Europe, and consistently getting into the Champions League is better than winning the Milk Cup and finishing 8th.

 

Well, it is to me. I know other people see things, erm, 'differently'.

 

Of course it is, but the starting positions of both must be a consideration. Rafa took over a squad which was already qualified for the Champions League and was easily good enough to be top four, won a trophy and reached a final in his first season, but put in an under achieving league season, and was given time to develop that squad.

 

Surely I don't have to spell out the parallels and the differences for you? You're an intelligent man.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Of course it is, but the starting positions of both must be a consideration. Rafa took over a squad which was already qualified for the Champions League and was easily good enough to be top four, won a trophy and reached a final in his first season, but put in an under achieving league season, and was given time to develop that squad.

 

Surely I don't have to spell out the parallels and the differences for you? You're an intelligent man.

 

You're taking what I'm saying out of context. We were talking about who is and/or was still considered a World Class manager.

 

However, I still think we've had a disappointing season, considering the second half of last year and the money we spent. We've done poorly. Fuck, is anybody actually even suggesting we've done well? Whether you think he can do better over the coming years is a different conversation; it'd be hard to do worse.

[stringvest]

Is Arsene Wenger thought of as a world class manager?

[zigackly]

You're taking what I'm saying out of context. We were talking about who is and/or was still considered a World Class manager.

 

However, I still think we've had a disappointing season, considering the second half of last year and the money we spent. We've done poorly. Fuck, is anybody actually even suggesting we've done well? Whether you think he can do better over the coming years is a different conversation; it'd be hard to do worse.

 

I think we overperformed in the cups and underperformed in the league. My main gripe with your original post though was that you are willing to count nearly winning something in one case but not in the other, and that you don't consider starting position or time in the job. It's a stupid comparison anyway, but your bias is clear.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Is Arsene Wenger thought of as a world class manager?

 

He certainly was, probably still is seen as world class by some. Wenger's main problem is his reluctance to spend money and his inability to keep his best players.

[Jairzinho]

Wenger is world class.

 

On Martinez, good young manager but there really should be at least one job between saving Wigan from relegation and joining Liverpool.

[ronnie38]

Of course it is, but the starting positions of both must be a consideration. Rafa took over a squad which was already qualified for the Champions League and was easily good enough to be top four, won a trophy and reached a final in his first season, but put in an under achieving league season, and was given time to develop that squad.

 

Surely I don't have to spell out the parallels and the differences for you? You're an intelligent man.

I sincerely hope you aren't trying to say the trophies both won in there first season are of similar stature.

[zigackly]

Martinez is no Villas Boas.

[zigackly]

I sincerely hope you aren't trying to say the trophies both won in there first season are of similar stature.

 

Are you a bit thick?