Liverpool V Hull

[Judge]

Whenever we draw he fucks up so what's new?!

 

I don't see how Rafa can be blamed for the goals we conceeded. Can he be blamed for Kuyt's poor touch or Yossi insisting on keeping the ball for one touch too many before he was tackled or a chance had gone.

 

He should have brought on 20 million pound Keane, but other than that I don't see what else he did wrong.

 

No he can not.

 

But he CAN be blamed for watching a large number of terrible first touchs in good positions from the same player without getting him the fuck off the pitch.

[RedKnight]

Every man and his dog knows that Kuyt on his own up top is a dumb idea. Like someone else said, it cost us in Greece.

[Guest LFD]

LFD - 4-5-1 did not suit the players we had available today. When Torres is fit then you could argue that, but when not it's 4-4-2 (which I think will be best our best shape once Torres and Keane gel) all the way.

 

I don't think you're getting my point.

 

We have tried 4-4-2 against teams at Anfield without Torres and struggled this season and got draws.

 

I don't see how you can assume 4-4-2 would have been a better decision. Had we drawn you would have just found something else to moan about. When we draw Benitez is going to get criticised, whether right or wrong in my opinion. I'm not saying he was right, but I can see reasoning why he didn't go 4-4-2.

[Brownie]

I don't think you're getting my point.

 

We have tried 4-4-2 against teams at Anfield without Torres and struggled this season and got draws.

 

I don't see how you can assume 4-4-2 would have been a better decision. Had we drawn you would have just found something else to moan about. When we draw Benitez is going to get criticised, whether right or wrong in my opinion. I'm not saying he was right, but I can see reasoning why he didn't go 4-4-2.

 

We've never seen 4-4-2 with Babel and Keane have we?

[Guest LFD]

We've never seen 4-4-2 with Babel and Keane have we?

 

No we haven't.

 

I don't think was the game to try it either. Babel who has always disappointed upfront and Keane who has been struggling since he's arrived. It might have been 2-0 to Hull had that occured, as Gerrard wouldn't have had the license to break forward whenever possible.

 

I thought we started well today, despite what some people thought. Their goals came from a poor ref decision when Mendy dived over Hyypia. The other came when the ref gave a foul against Carragher in their half, when Carragher won the ball. While running back and giving the ref some abuse, by the time Carragher got back he was out of position and put the ball in the back of our net, partly thanks to some poor defending by Dossena.

 

We just need Torres back, he'll totally change our attack.

[Brownie]

No we haven't.

 

I don't think was the game to try it either. Babel who has always disappointed upfront and Keane who has been struggling since he's arrived. It might have been 2-0 to Hull had that occured, as Gerrard wouldn't have had the license to break forward whenever possible.

 

I thought we started well today, despite what some people thought. Their goals came from a poor ref decision when Mendy dived over Hyypia. The other came when the ref gave a foul against Carragher in their half, when Carragher won the ball. While running back and giving the ref some abuse, by the time Carragher got back he was out of position and put the ball in the back of our net, partly thanks to some poor defending by Dossena.

 

We just need Torres back, he'll totally change our attack.

 

So, despite us looking poor with Kuyt up front, you would still keep it that way rather than try something new?

 

Well you and Rafa seem to have a similar ethos when it comes to football. I'd like to see our manager try things. Babel has not had a chance to prove anything up front despite what you're saying.

 

Saying that Babel up front is a proven failure, is like saying that Benayoun behind the front man is a proven failure.

[Guest LFD]

So, despite us looking poor with Kuyt up front, you would still keep it that way rather than try something new?

 

Well you and Rafa seem to have a similar ethos when it comes to football. I'd like to see our manager try things. Babel has not had a chance to prove anything up front despite what you're saying.

 

Saying that Babel up front is a proven failure, is like saying that Benayoun behind the front man is a proven failure.

 

I wouldn't have picked the side Rafa did pick. Personally I would have had Keane and Kuyt upfront, Babel on the right, Gerrard / Alonso in the centre. But I don't have a problem with the side he chose, just the result and performances we got.

 

Kuyt for example I thought was great upfront against Blackburn. Had good touch, held up the ball and used it well. Today he had a poor game, it happens.

 

Babel has been a failure upfront in the games we've seen him used in that position. He might make it as a striker and I think you're right he probably does deserves some more chances in that position. But not in the league when we're competing for the title, he's not shown anything to justify a start in the league upfront.

[Brownie]

I wouldn't have picked the side Rafa did pick. Personally I would have had Keane and Kuyt upfront, Babel on the right, Gerrard / Alonso in the centre. But I don't have a problem with the side he chose, just the result and performances we got.

 

Kuyt for example I thought was great upfront against Blackburn. Had good touch, held up the ball and used it well. Today he had a poor game, it happens.

 

Babel has been a failure upfront in the games we've seen him used in that position. He might make it as a striker and I think you're right he probably does deserves some more chances in that position. But not in the league when we're competing for the title, he's not shown anything to justify a start in the league upfront.

 

:wow:

 

I think i'll just agree to disagree mate. I thought he was awful against Blackburn but it's not his fault. He doesn't have the attributes you need to play up front on his own.

 

With Torres out, we lack pace so replacing it with graft is going to decrease your goal threat accordingly. Babel is unpredictable but has the ability to create a goal or score out of nothing.

[rebel23]

 

We just need Torres back, he'll totally change our attack.

 

I can't wait until Torres is back either because he's one of the few players who wont be fucked around, it also means Benayoun out the team and not Kuyt up front. the fact that Torres is a good player is a bonus

[The 5th Benitel]

I don't think you're getting my point.

 

We have tried 4-4-2 against teams at Anfield without Torres and struggled this season and got draws.

 

I don't see how you can assume 4-4-2 would have been a better decision. Had we drawn you would have just found something else to moan about. When we draw Benitez is going to get criticised, whether right or wrong in my opinion. I'm not saying he was right, but I can see reasoning why he didn't go 4-4-2.

 

Torres didn't llok fit in any of those games though and we played 442 with Kuyt and Keane against the mancs and won. I can see why he might have tried 451 initially but having seen it wasn't working he needed to accept he was wrong and change it which is something he's consistantly proved he's incapable of doing. Instead he just makes the same substitutions and the same point of the game that he does in all the other matches. All of that is his fault. I cant think of many other top managers whos decisions regularily lesson the chances of their side winning. I can accept when you dont get the breaks and draw games you should win but too often Rafa does things that weaken us instead of giving us the best chance of winning the game.

[Brownie]

Torres didn't llok fit in any of those games though and we played 442 with Kuyt and Keane against the mancs and won. I can see why he might have tried 451 initially but having seen it wasn't working he needed to accept he was wrong and change it which is something he's consistantly proved he's incapable of doing. Instead he just makes the same substitutions and the same point of the game that he does in all the other matches. All of that is his fault. I cant think of many other top managers whos decisions regularily lesson the chances of their side winning. I can accept when you dont get the breaks and draw games you should win but too often Rafa does things that weaken us instead of giving us the best chance of winning the game.

 

My issue with Rafa in one sentence. He doesn't give the team the best chance of winning games on a consistent basis.

[Guest LFD]

and we played 442 with Kuyt and Keane against the mancs and won.

 

But our problem hasn't been against the top teams as we know.

 

I really think the formation is irrelevant. whether we're played 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 we've struggled to break down Stoke, Fulham, West Ham and Hull.

 

This is a problem down to a lack of creation or having a plan b, rather than simply choosing 4-4-2 or 4-5-1.

[Guest LFD]

My issue with Rafa in one sentence. He doesn't give the team the best chance of winning games on a consistent basis.

 

In your opinion that means using Babel upfront today.

 

In my opinion Babel shouldn't have started upfront today.

 

You could ask other Liverpool fans and they'd be fairly divided on this issue and the same for other selections made.

 

Now we have so many decent options in Kuyt, Keane, Babel, Yossi, Riera, El Zhar etc. Not matter which player misses out some fans won't be happy when we draw when a certain player doesn't play as good players are on the bench.

 

He picked a side easily good enough to win today.

[JMARKH]

We had 68% of possession, Dirk missing too many chances, Sami hitting the post. It wasn't Rafa decisions during the game or in selection, it was the same problem as we've had for years, missing too many fucking chances.

 

dirk no offence but you sound like houllier when he came up with that tripe, who's fault is it that we miss the chances, it happens again and again, rafa persists with players who have zero anticipation and instinct around the box, its no coincidence that the ball never breaks to us in and around the box when kuyt and benayoun are meant to provide the firepower

[derykw]

Strange times indeed at Anfield. We`re definately in the title race which was a pre-requisite for most fans but still the fans by and large aren`t happy.

Reading this thread it seems that today was the straw that broke the camels back as far as faith in the Manager is concerned` at least for some anyway. Seems a bit strange really as he isn`t doing anything different from previous years but at least we`re top as opposed to the usual dozen or so points off the pace.

Personally I wanted Rafa gone by this time last year and I certainly hope he doesn`t get a contract until 2013. The thoughts of watching some of the safety first, turgid shite he is responsible for for the next 5 years fills me with utter despair. The money he has wasted on Keane, Dossena and probably Babel and Lucas is indefensible, especially bearing in mind his constant bleatings in the press about lack of resourcee .

This time last year we were battling with Everton for 4th and Rafa had almost total support, this time we`re top and seemingly really challenging for the Title and the fans seem to be losing faith in their droves, why? For what it`s worth I think the feud with the Yanks protected Rafa from criticism to a large degree and now there`s nothing for him to hide behind and the whole Keane debacle has been very damaging for him.

[Brownie]

Strange times indeed at Anfield. We`re definately in the title race which was a pre-requisite for most fans but still the fans by and large aren`t happy.

Reading this thread it seems that today was the straw that broke the camels back as far as faith in the Manager is concerned` at least for some anyway. Seems a bit strange really as he isn`t doing anything different from previous years but at least we`re top as opposed to the usual dozen or so points off the pace.

Personally I wanted Rafa gone by this time last year and I certainly hope he doesn`t get a contract until 2013. The thoughts of watching some of the safety first, turgid shite he is responsible for for the next 5 years fills me with utter despair. The money he has wasted on Keane, Dossena and probably Babel and Lucas is indefensible, especially bearing in mind his constant bleatings in the press about lack of resourcee .

This time last year we were battling with Everton for 4th and Rafa had almost total support, this time we`re top and seemingly really challenging for the Title and the fans seem to be losing faith in their droves, why? For what it`s worth I think the feud with the Yanks protected Rafa from criticism to a large degree and now there`s nothing for him to hide behind and the whole Keane debacle has been very damaging for him.

 

I think that's actually really accurate.

[Ted]

Strange times indeed at Anfield. We`re definately in the title race which was a pre-requisite for most fans but still the fans by and large aren`t happy.

Reading this thread it seems that today was the straw that broke the camels back as far as faith in the Manager is concerned` at least for some anyway. Seems a bit strange really as he isn`t doing anything different from previous years but at least we`re top as opposed to the usual dozen or so points off the pace.

Personally I wanted Rafa gone by this time last year and I certainly hope he doesn`t get a contract until 2013. The thoughts of watching some of the safety first, turgid shite he is responsible for for the next 5 years fills me with utter despair. The money he has wasted on Keane, Dossena and probably Babel and Lucas is indefensible, especially bearing in mind his constant bleatings in the press about lack of resourcee .

This time last year we were battling with Everton for 4th and Rafa had almost total support, this time we`re top and seemingly really challenging for the Title and the fans seem to be losing faith in their droves, why? For what it`s worth I think the feud with the Yanks protected Rafa from criticism to a large degree and now there`s nothing for him to hide behind and the whole Keane debacle has been very damaging for him.

 

That's spot on.

[Guest LFD]

The thoughts of watching some of the safety first, turgid shite he is responsible for for the next 5 years fills me with utter despair. The money he has wasted on Keane, Dossena and probably Babel and Lucas is indefensible, especially bearing in mind his constant bleatings in the press about lack of resourcee .

 

I disagree with this.

 

How was it saefty first today? Because he played Mascherano.

 

Was it safety first against Stoke when he played Torres and Keane upfront with Gerrard in midfield?

 

Was it saefty first against Man City when he took off full backs and brought on attacking players instead?

 

Nice to see you have decided Keane, Dossena, Babel and Lucas are wastes of money. Nothing like being rash after a draw is it.

 

Anyone else with some irrational views?

 

It is certainly strange times at Anfield, the fans know we are in the title race and are desperate to stay in it. As a result they are being ultra critcal of Benitez.

Edited December 13, 2008 by LFD

[MLB]

The problem is that he's doing the same things he's always done when we're actually in a strong position to compete for the title. Usually we're out of things by this point. Now we actually have a lot to lose.

[King Emlyn]

I think that's actually really accurate.

He's a Belle Vale boy, of course it's accurate, it's the natural order of things.

[WhiskeyJar]

We should of won today and put the pressure on Chelsea, now if they win are not top of the table. Lets hope to god Chelsea fucking fall on their faces tomorrow....

[George Costanza]

LFD's a bit a cunt isn't he.

 

derykw is pretty much spot on imo

[Guest LFD]

LFD's a bit a cunt isn't he.

 

Oh right.

 

So because I think we still have a chance of winning the league and I'm not bashing Benitez, I'm a cunt.

[George Costanza]

Oh right.

 

So because I think we still have a chance of winning the league and I'm not bashing Benitez, I'm a cunt.

 

You have contiually nitpicked at those who have disagreed or been critical of rafa. Its the sheep syndrome. Dare anyone have a different view from the manager, he's never wrong is he.

 

Rafa fucked up today and has many times in the past. I'm sorry but nayone who doesn't think this is fucking blind and quite frankly stupid.

 

Despiote his flaws most of us are still behind him, does't stop us from criticising him though. Nobody should above critic. I'm not a huge Gerrard fan but IMO he and Carra are more important to Liverpool than Rafa. That my opinion.

[Antynwa]

I've just come in from the pub. I really feel today was a big day for us folks. I don't think I've been as confused, and concerned of Rafa's reign since Wigan at Home last season.

 

A few days back he says Keane is low on confidence, and he drops him to the bench for the 2nd league game in a row. He plays his Striker-Turned-Midfielder-Turned-Striker up top on his own against Hull City, and when he does bad, he doesn't take him off and bring on his 20 Million pound 'Low on Confidence' Robbie Keane on, no he lobs Ryan 'I want to play for Ajax' Babel.

 

I feel as if I'm in limbo, I don't believe we will get a better manager than Benitez under the current regime, but I really don't believe Rafa can win us the league, and the past few results at home have shown this.

 

1 up front v Hull City at home for Championship Contendors? We deserved fuck all today. I said this before, and I'll say it again, we could and should be walking this league. We've had plenty of excellent results from our rivals go our way, and we have failed to capitalise.

 

If we don't win the league, today will be the day that we lost it, because we will finish very close to the leaders, so close infact I believe even just 1 win out of the games we have drew at home so far may have won the league for us.