January 2023 Transfer Thread

[El Dangerous]

Will it not likely be 424/4231 with Diaz and Salah flanking Nunez and Gakpo just behind him. 

[Scott_M]

6 minutes ago, Tenfolder said:

 

It's hard to find details(shockingly...) But the 1.5bn debt was paid off as part of the deal as far as im aware, Chelsea started from an effectively debt free position after the takeover, I believe there was some sort of deal with the government that it would be held in an account until it can be proved it will be used for humanitarian aid or whatever(or more likely can be quietly put back in to Romans pockets).

Yeah, remember all that.
 

The point I was making was they’ve made losses of hundreds of millions of pounds per season over the past c.20 years, including 2021.
 

I know there was a certain figure in the takeover for squad improvements, what is Boehy doing now to plug those losses gaps? Doesn’t look like anything. 
 

They certainly have a surplus of players, some on large contacts, all they’ve done is loan Lukaku and sell Werner and Emerson. 

 

[an tha]

2 hours ago, Scott_M said:

Yeah, remember all that.
 

The point I was making was they’ve made losses of hundreds of millions of pounds per season over the past c.20 years, including 2021.
 

I know there was a certain figure in the takeover for squad improvements, what is Boehy doing now to plug those losses gaps? Doesn’t look like anything. 
 

They certainly have a surplus of players, some on large contacts, all they’ve done is loan Lukaku and sell Werner and Emerson. 

 

Have they got any midfielders we could buy?

[sir roger]

About 150 of them

[3 Stacks]

We're pretty much idiots in the transfer market now, we've mostly lost our way. The Gakpo signing is the right idea. It's the sort of stuff we used to do, paying the right kind of fee for a player that fits in well with our squad, but it's the outlier now, and it's patently absurd that we'll decide to pay up to 50m for a long term attacking target when midfield is the obvious area that needs to get better.

 

And it's clearly not because of the injuries we have, there was an ESPN guy who was saying Ljinders had told him we loved him back in October or November, before Diaz got re-injured. Also, when we're buying to make up for injuries, we get shit stop gaps like Davies, Kabak and Arthur. We never buy big to replace injured players. Had Gakpo not been available for a decent fee, we'd have bought nobody, regardless of our forward injuries. 

 

What the Gakpo signing tells me is that we don't like any midfielder out there in that sort of 40-50m price range, which is so stupid, because that's the exact sort of fee that smart clubs sign players for. Because we've just seen with Gakpo that the money was there for that kind of signing and we've not done it, despite the fact that midfield is objectively a much bigger need.

 

And we've likely not done it because we're doing a fucking obsessive Moby Dick-White Whale routine with Bellingham who will cost an absolute fortune and will drain the whole budget. This thing of being in the market for the Tchouameni's and the Darwin's and Enzo Fernandez' and Bellingham's, it sounds exciting in theory, but it's not, it's pretty dumb. These massive money signings fail all the time and we're not rich enough to compensate if we do one of them and it doesn't work out. Strategically, we're heading in a bad direction. 

 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

If there was a 40m midfielder available now who can improve us long-term then I'm sure the club would have bought him already. They won't pay over the top to fill a gap as we already know. That is what "right player at the right price" is about. For me that is more savvy than idiotic. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

I dont think it's savvy to watch our midfield and thinking waiting for the "right" player is astute. Especially when we always hear about no more signings unless an unexpected opportunity presents itself.. like minamino it's the right player when it's cheap  theres no right player just right price. Its always savvy not spending under FSG, right now it would be very bloody savvy to address our midfield issues even if it costs more because we are in this position due to poor squad building. We've spent the last few years at the pinnacle of football and we are still a club that talks about having no money. 

 

All  the talk and bravado about the clubs revenues catching uniteds yet united can easily spend money, pay out dividends, service debts and easily stay within FFP all while earning little through way of success. I'm not saying they are the template to follow at all but why are we always on a knife edge, I've never known this club to have proper cash we never get out of the club being too big for the owners stage. We go windows doing absolutely fuck all to add or improve the team, we've sat by and watched others improve while we watch our players age and offer less and less but we cling on. I love Milner but what the fuck is he doing here people saying Ronaldo was past it yet we are paying 150 grand a week for a 36 year old are you telling me there is no one younger, cheaper in the world of football that can offer us more. We've a deluded idea on how unreplaceable our players are. I mean was Ramsey the right player were we waiting for him the "right player" or was he just a cheap option with potential as cover because we wanted to flog Williams and he wanted to go because we won't rotate Trent, the unexpected opportunity. Going massive on a fee yeah that has to be the right player but our midfield doesn't need luxury at the minute it needs the graft it, needs energy you can bet your arse Thiago, Henderson, Kieta and possibly Fabinho will be picking up injuries between now and the end of the season its a cert it's exactly what happened last time with the defence. Injuries mean we end up overplaying other injury prone players.

 

 

[Freddo]

Close the thread down. Totally pointless now isn't it. We're in dire need of midfield improvements but because players haven't told klopp they want to leave we can't or won't try and move them. Oh and more importantly, we're skint. Despite all the success, bumper sponsors, Nike supposedly being huge for us, full crowds, extended ground huge retail operation etc etc were skint.

Should the Bellingham thread also be closed. Probably. 

Can't wait for the excuses when we don't hit top 4.

[Jurgen Knows]

Our spending policy is savvy. Yes.

The spending policy of Man City is not possible to follow if you have owners that want to run the club as a business, which is how all clubs should be run. The fact that it isn’t the case doesn’t make us idiots for not following suit.

 

The spending policy of Man Utd is not sustainable. They overspend because fewer players are interested in joining them than us. This is not sustainable on the long-term and will get them in trouble unless they sell the club soon.

 

In an ideal world all clubs should be run like us. There are rules and laws to achieve this but these rules are not being respected. The fact they are not doesn’t make us idiots. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

It's not an ideal world this is the elite level of the sport. It's not about wanting midfielders the side desperately needs them. They've got to invest, we can't dictate to the market we either want to be a competitive club or an astute investment for hedgefunds. We don't need to go city level spending shit Benfica signed Enzo for 12 million or whatever less than 12 months ago, Brighton signed  Caecedo cheaply and now he's apparently worth 70 million. Somehow inspite of our genuis level business acumen and talented cutting edge scouting systems we cant improve upon Henderson, Keita, Ox, Milner or jones without bankrupting ourselves. I dont buy it.

[HBenn]

36 minutes ago, Freddo said:

Close the thread down. Totally pointless now isn't it. We're in dire need of midfield improvements but because players haven't told klopp they want to leave we can't or won't try and move them. Oh and more importantly, we're skint. Despite all the success, bumper sponsors, Nike supposedly being huge for us, full crowds, extended ground huge retail operation etc etc were skint.

Should the Bellingham thread also be closed. Probably. 

Can't wait for the excuses when we don't hit top 4.

I think we have to wait and see what happens. 

Having seen the press conference, I think what Jürgen said has been twisted a fair bit.

He never says, unless all his players are injured, that we need a player. He seemed to be trying to avoid answering the question but still ended up saying if the right player is available they will sign him. 

 

Not sure why people are jumping on the sell to buy bit based on the press conference either as he said that players leaving was a completely different matter. 

 

I am no way defending the owners, just saying that based on this interview it seemed more a case of Jürgen not undermining what he has at his disposal than openly saying we really need players and will throw money around to get it.

[Jurgen Knows]

35 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It's not an ideal world this is the elite level of the sport. It's not about wanting midfielders the side desperately needs them. They've got to invest, we can't dictate to the market we either want to be a competitive club or an astute investment for hedgefunds. We don't need to go city level spending shit Benfica signed Enzo for 12 million or whatever less than 12 months ago, Brighton signed  Caecedo cheaply and now he's apparently worth 70 million. Somehow inspite of our genuis level business acumen and talented cutting edge scouting systems we cant improve upon Henderson, Keita, Ox, Milner or jones without bankrupting ourselves. I dont buy it.

That would make perfect sense if we had owners who were fans. Unfortunately our owners are not fans. We will not go bankrupt if we buy Enzo Fernandez for 110m. You and I would spend that as long as it doesn’t break the club. Businessmen don’t think that way unfortunately. They would only invest if they see a positive ROI.
 

It’s not an ideal world. That’s right.

[HBenn]

38 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

That would make perfect sense if we had owners who were fans. Unfortunately our owners are not fans. We will not go bankrupt if we buy Enzo Fernandez for 110m. You and I would spend that as long as it doesn’t break the club. Businessmen don’t think that way unfortunately. They would only invest if they see a positive ROI.
 

It’s not an ideal world. That’s right.

If it had no influence on CL qualification I would agree with that but at the moment I don't get how not investing benefits anyone. 

If we don't get CL isn't anyone looking to buy the club going to look at getting at a reduced rate? Our costs would be the same but our revenues significantly reduced for at least a season. Why would you pay the same amount? Everyone else that gets into the top 4 aren't going to do what we have done and rest on their laurels. It would be harder to get back in.

It's not like the club won't need to spend that money anyway at some point. Bellingham alone isn't solving our issues. I just don't see the sound financial logic to doing nothing now. Sensible businesses invest to mitigate potentially bigger financial losses. 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

1 minute ago, HBenn said:

If it had no influence on CL qualification I would agree with that but at the moment I don't get how not investing benefits anyone. 

If we don't get CL isn't anyone looking to buy the club going to look at getting at a reduced rate? Our costs would be the same but our revenues significantly reduced for at least a season. Why would you pay the same amount? Everyone else that gets into the top 4 aren't going to do what we have done and rest on their laurels. It would be harder to get back in.

It's not like the club won't need to spend that money anyway at some point. Bellingham alone isn't solving our issues. I just don't see the sound financial logic to doing nothing now. Sensible businesses invest to mitigate potentially bigger financial losses. 

 

Three points here:

 

1. They would have asked Jurgen about how he sees our CL chances and received reasonable assurances from him (for example: possible but not guaranteed).

 

2. How much money do you earn from winning the CL? Does it buy you an Enzo Fernandez?

 

3. Again they would have asked Jurgen whether buying Enzo Fernandez would guarantee CL and received an answer that goes along the lines of it makes it more likely but no guarantees.

 

I’m not defending them. I wish they were fans like us. But they’re not.

 

 

[HBenn]

25 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

Three points here:

 

1. They would have asked Jurgen about how he sees our CL chances and received reasonable assurances from him (for example: possible but not guaranteed).

 

2. How much money do you earn from winning the CL? Does it buy you an Enzo Fernandez?

 

3. Again they would have asked Jurgen whether buying Enzo Fernandez would guarantee CL and received an answer that goes along the lines of it makes it more likely but no guarantees.

 

I’m not defending them. I wish they were fans like us. But they’re not.

 

 

What if privately he is saying to question 1 it is unlikely. To question 2 how big a hole is it to our finances not being in it, to our sale value? To our ability to maintain sales? 

Question 3 I can see but that is an extreme example. Pulling forward spending of £60m now on a player that may cost you £40m in the summer is probably the bigger question. 

 

That is the point. Even thinking like a businessman there logic doesn't really add up 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Klopp has always taken these risks. Gambling in the short term - leaving the squad thin in an area - so he can get the longer term target. I do feel like something has changed though. Our transfer team seem to be jumping ship, and we're betting the farm on big calls like Nunez and Bellingham. Seems too big a coincidence to be unrelated.

 

Klopp can make a great team out of good, fit players. My worry is, by going big for one exceptional talent like Bellingham - someone Klopp's set on - it'll hamper us by draining the budget. We'll have no wiggle room for error.

[Jurgen Knows]

13 minutes ago, HBenn said:

What if privately he is saying to question 1 it is unlikely.

 

I doubt that this is the case. 

 

13 minutes ago, HBenn said:

 

To question 2 how big a hole is it to our finances not being in it, to our sale value? To our ability to maintain sales? 
 

 

If you do exceptionally well in the CL you make around 80 to 90m. Not enough to buy you one Enzo Fernandez. That is why the City spending model is not how football clubs should be run. We are not idiots for not following suit.

 

13 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Question 3 I can see but that is an extreme example. Pulling forward spending of £60m now on a player that may cost you £40m in the summer is probably the bigger question. 
 

 

It is not about now or the summer. It is about availability of players. If a player was available now at the right price I don’t think our owners would wait. Example: Diaz.

 

 

13 minutes ago, HBenn said:

[Harry Squatter]

Sell to buy merchants. There's no long term future for them here as theyve ran out of players to flog.

 

 

[Megadrive Man]

Paul Joyce has written an article for the Times which effectively says we aren't signing any more players in January.

[HBenn]

25 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

 

I doubt that this is the case. 

 

 

If you do exceptionally well in the CL you make around 80 to 90m. Not enough to buy you one Enzo Fernandez. That is why the City spending model is not how football clubs should be run. We are not idiots for not following suit.

 

 

It is not about now or the summer. It is about availability of players. If a player was available now at the right price I don’t think our owners would wait. Example: Diaz.

 

 

1) I think it would be a very brave person that says with our intensity of games and current midfield that there is a good chance we finish top 4

2) Not only do we not pay the transfer fee in one go, it is also about how hard it is to get back in once you drop out. Man City and Newcastle would solidify their spots and then you are up against probably Chelsea and Utd who can outspend you and also offer CL to potential players. 1 season we can handle, 2 or 3? I very much doubt a potential buyer will see it as a foregone conclusion that we get back in after 1 year

3) Yes, maybe your right. But they have also had since September to think it through. They could say to our scouting department that you have £20-30m to spend to mitigate it. Caciedo, Fernandez all moved for relative peanuts. They may not be our a- list but at times you need to be pragmatic. We don't get out a list without CL anyway so trust in the scouts. The other teams seem to find players and all these players we buy we seem to have scouted since they were at much lesser teams.  

 

I just don't see the logic of doing nothing. It makes no sense at all on any level. 

[Megadrive Man]

Il be amazed if we get top four now.

 

Every single game we play looks in the balance and we are inevitably going to drop points similar to the way we did against Leeds and Forest.

 

In years gone by it was relatively easy to get top four as the likes of Arsenal and United were off the pace and Newcastle weren't a serious contender either. This year though, Arsenal and City are nailed on for it, Newcastle hardly ever lose. United are the strongest they've been since Fergie left, and you still have the added threat of Chelsea and Spurs, even if neither are currently playing well.

 

 

[Aventus]

26 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

Sell to buy merchants. There's no long term future for them here as theyve ran out of players to flog.

We're pretty bad at the sell to buy model considering we just let them run down their contracts and leave on free transfers. 

[Aventus]

8 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

If there was a 40m midfielder available now who can improve us long-term then I'm sure the club would have bought him already. They won't pay over the top to fill a gap as we already know. That is what "right player at the right price" is about. For me that is more savvy than idiotic. 

There's plenty of players about for <40m that would dramatically improve us, but the scouts aren't identifying them until they have their breakout season and are suddenly worth 80m+. 

 

Sitting on our hands watching us slowly fall further down the table while pretending we're so much smarter than everyone else because we're waiting for the perfect player is idiotic. 

 

Klopp has a great record for improving players, you could give him a 10m player with a decent work ethic and injury record and Jurgen would make him into a great player. We should buy a stop gap, and sell him for a profit in a season or two once the perfect player comes available. 

 

If we carry on like this it wont be long before we become less attractive as a club and we need to start over paying for players to keep up like the red mancs currently are. 

[Harry Squatter]

Arsenal signing another forward for £70m to consolidate their position at the top of the league/top 4. Yet they've been out of the Champions League for 4 years.

[Leyton388]

5 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

Arsenal signing another forward for £70m to consolidate their position at the top of the league/top 4. Yet they've been out of the Champions League for 4 years.

 

Something we should have done in 2020 when we needed defenders and again last summer when we needed midfielders. 

 

Total lack of ambition from our hedge fund frauds. They've held us back long enough now and need to sell, take their profit and piss off.