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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

Sugar Ape

By Sugar Ape,
in GF - General Forum

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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?


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Section_31
Section_31

I've got no problem with people not liking Corbyn or even hurling insults at him, I just think accusing people of racism and antisemitism without justification is disgusting, it's probably only one st

Paul
Paul

He's not a leader. End of.   I voted for him on a ridiculous whim: the childish idea that it would shake up the establishment to force a non-establishment figure into the mainstream. Little did I i

AngryOfTuebrook
AngryOfTuebrook

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-speech-the-establishment-nhs-privisation-a7338186.html     Jeremy Corbyn's conference speech yesterday underlined exactly why he has been subjected

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AngryOfTuebrook Grand Master

AngryOfTuebrook

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I thought it was abundantly clear to even the merest mind that it was the singling out which I had a problem with, and that is not happening here.

 

Not that I have much time for the simplistic zero sum logic which thinks a few people having a lot of money means that loads of other people have to be poor, but there's nothing racist about Corbyn's tweet.

Are you seriously going to pretend that the "singling out" of Philip Green has anything at all to do with anything other than his conduct and the pedestal that your Tory Government put him on in 2010?

 

Give your daft little head a wobble. 

 

(Also, you're wrong about the role of the super-rich in exacerbating and perpetuating poverty - but that's a matter for another thread.)

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Bjornebye Grand Master

Bjornebye

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13 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Phillip Green hasn't been singled out anyway. He might have been exclusively mentioned in one video. However, they've gone after Branson too. There's a recent parody video on all the forms of social media. 

They proper lay into his pickle. 

I posted the Branson one on here that Corbyn had put on twitter. 

 

Am I allowed to call Phillip Green a fat sleazy greedy cunt? 

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Nelly-Szoboszlai Grand Master

Nelly-Szoboszlai

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Some unpleasant stuff in that JLM submission document. And some stuff that needs rectifying as promptly as possible. 

 

Sad to see them repeating lies about Jackie Walker and Louise Ellman being bullied out of the party though. And the section on Corbyn enabling antisemitism is hilariously reaching. There's also a fair bit of he said this evidence that seems as strong as a "they didn't say it at all" rebuttal. Also trigger ballots against Jewish members, irrespective of the reasons for that process being invoked, seem to be being described as evidence of antisemitism. That's dangerous. It sends out a message that Jewish MPs are beyond reproach, as any challenge against them, no matter what the reason, will be classed as antisemitic. The Luciana Berger police protection lie/confusion seems to be relied on too. 

 

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Nelly-Szoboszlai Grand Master

Nelly-Szoboszlai

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25.4 And? The artist has outlined who the mural portrays. 1 or 2 of the real figures portrayed in the mural are Jewish. The rest aren't. It's entirely possible that a quick glance at a condensed image of the mural wouldn't reveal anything offensive. 

 

25.5 Louise Ellman also attended this event. Hajo Meyer actually makes a nuanced and specific comparison of early, pre-Holocaust Nazi Germany to Israel, as outlined in his book The End of Judaism: An Ethical Tradition Betrayed. 

The JLM submissions don't mention this and try to suggest/imply that Meyer is making a comparison between Israel and the Nazi end game - the Holocaust. 

Screenshot_20191205_125556.jpg

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Nelly-Szoboszlai Grand Master

Nelly-Szoboszlai

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Posted

Section 31. 

 

Titled denial. It's more a case of disputing. Apparently, disputing claims of inherent antisemitism in the Labour Party is not allowed. 

 

Some of these submissions are bad to read (the bit about online abuse, particularly). But, some of them are absolutely off the wall crazy too. 

 

This bit of the report mentions that there were over 1000 unresolved complaints at one point. Where these Hodge's massive dossier, which included many cases that didn't involve Labour members? If so, why doesn't this also get mentioned in the submissions? 

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Nelly-Szoboszlai Grand Master

Nelly-Szoboszlai

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I've had a quick read through the full report. 

 

It's evident that there is still vast room for improvement with how the party deals with complaints of antisemitism. The speed, the openness, the consistency and uniformity of the process. Some of the complaints seem to centre around leniency of sanction. A valid concern. But, I maintain my stance that suspension and revocation of membership may not always be the right approach, irrespective of whatever form of discrimination is involved. Sometimes a warning of conduct and a process of education might be appropriate and may also be more beneficial to help tackle discrimination and prevent further instances of it. 

 

The submissions seem to take umbrage with the launching of disciplinary proceedings against Margaret Hodge and Ian Austin for speaking out against antisemitism. They weren't subject to proceedings for that. That's another twisting of the truth. They were disciplined for abusive conduct. 

 

Also, I'd have to double check to see if some of the allegations are cross referenced to and backed up by the statement of a named complainant/witness, but I noticed that the unredacted footnotes refer to statements by "Anonymous 1."

 

If this is just a statement from a random, unidentified person, then surely this would be of no evidential weight whatsoever. 

 

I'd say that these submissions, if accurate, have changed my mind slightly. I'm still of the position that antisemitism exists in the Labour Party but that it doesn't do so on a wide scale or over and above the numbers, generally, in society. But, the submissions don't paint a good picture in terms of how the complaints have been handled. I don't think that this is down to some underlying inherent antisemitism or an unwillingness to take complaints seriously. But, rather, that it's down to a degree of incompetence and unpreparedness to deal with the complaints, which hasn't been helped by a vast amount of complaints being submitted over which the internal process has no jurisdiction (i.e. Non Labour Party members) or which were not antisemitic in the first place. It also doesn't help that the IHRA definition isn't really fit for purpose. 

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Red Phoenix Grand Master

Red Phoenix

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Posted

The Campaign Against Antisemitism is also having a rally on Sunday which will probably be in the news as well. They recently did a poll with YouGov that suggested antisemitism is worse on the left than it is on the right, some of the flaws on that are explained here : https://jamiesternweiner.wordpress.com/2019/12/03/fake-campaign-against-antisemitism/

 

The Jewish Chronicle went with the recent poll to attack Corbyn too, here they are trashing some of their previous work though : https://www.thejc.com/comment/analysis/the-caa-poll-debate-these-figures-are-not-to-be-trusted-1.64697

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