What's your opinion of Brendan Rodgers?

[Tony Moanero]

Id love us to be the best in England again but the landscape has changed massively since we were..

 

Years ago, most of the traditional top clubs had roughly similar incomes despite that lot down the east lancs having a bigger stadium. They didnt always get capacity crowds while Anfield was a lot bigger.

 

To return us to being more than a one season 'best' needs massive amounts of money. Think three quarters of a billion pounds.

 

Some people say they have provided enough fnds to turn us into title contenders then in the next breath suggest they need to ignore FFP. Where's the logic in that never mind the consistency?

ratcatcher knows.

[Stu Monty]

So what you're saying is Rodgers suspected Balotelli couldn't play his brand of football but decided to take a 16 mil calculated gamble, worked with him, then confirmed for sure that he in fact couldn't play his brand of football?

 

I'm saying that he knew what the player was generally capable of before he signed him. I'm saying that he was offered the player either as a loan or a signing and took him as he probably understood it was him or nothing at that point. I'm saying that he might have wanted to use him as part of a two (as he did in the one game Sturridge was available for) but hasn't had that option.

 

I'm saying he knows what the player can do (as will pretty much any manager with a passing interest in the game they work in) and has taken a gamble to try and get something out of him. 

 

If you and I know what Balotelli's game is before he signs then why on earth would you think Brendan Rodgers doesn't?

[Neil G]

Id love us to be the best in England again but the landscape has changed massively since we were..

 

Years ago, most of the traditional top clubs had roughly similar incomes despite that lot down the east lancs having a bigger stadium. They didnt always get capacity crowds while Anfield was a lot bigger.

 

To return us to being more than a one season 'best' needs massive amounts of money. Think three quarters of a billion pounds.

 

Some people say they have provided enough fnds to turn us into title contenders then in the next breath suggest they need to ignore FFP. Where's the logic in that never mind the consistency?

There is no inconsistency or contradiction there. FSG provided enough money for us to challenge for the title, and we nearly won it. They then provided more money which should have been enough for us to challenge again, but we misspent it and went backwards instead, so now we need to spend more.

[Major Tom]

They then provided more money which should have been enough for us to challenge again, but we misspent it and went backwards instead, so now we need to spend more.

 

Cos it's that simple!

 

Come on, Neil G!

[Neil G]

Cos it's that simple!

 

Come on, Neil G!

I never said it was that simple Tom. If you'd read this particular exchange properly you'd see I was talking specifically about the amount of money we've spent and might expect to spend under FSG, and whether it was / is enough to enable us to challenge for the title.

 

I know there are numerous other factors that determine our ability to challenge for the title, I have written about them extensively over the last few weeks.

[JermainePennant]

There is no inconsistency or contradiction there. FSG provided enough money for us to challenge for the title, and we nearly won it. They then provided more money which should have been enough for us to challenge again, but we misspent it and went backwards instead, so now we need to spend more.

 

They have provided about 20-30m a summer as a budget aside from sales since Rodgers took over, sometime less, Kenny got a decent amount but did not do well which may tell us why.

 

Id say it would be fair to expect to be around 4/5th place spending that kind of money, Rodgers done well getting us higher then that last season and putting together a squad that is capable of top four when key players are fit.

[Paco]

We ve only beaten southampton west brom swansea and stoke at home this season plus Ludogorets and swansea in cups.

[VladimirIlyich]

They have provided about 20-30m a summer as a budget aside from sales since Rodgers took over, sometime less, Kenny got a decent amount but did not do well which may tell us why.

 

Id say it would be fair to expect to be around 4/5th place spending that kind of money, Rodgers done well getting us higher then that last season and putting together a squad that is capable of top four when key players are fit.

Kenny didnt do well in the transfer market? Yet Suarez and Henderson were signed on Kenny's watch and Carroll's transfer was largely offset by the Torres fee.

The reason for Kenny's departure was less about footballing reasons and more about putting in a manager who fit their model.

Remember the state the club was in when Kenny took over? Rodgers had none of this baggage when he took the reins so comparison is hugely unfair for me.

[dennis tooth]

I'm saying that he knew what the player was generally capable of before he signed him. I'm saying that he was offered the player either as a loan or a signing and took him as he probably understood it was him or nothing at that point. I'm saying that he might have wanted to use him as part of a two (as he did in the one game Sturridge was available for) but hasn't had that option.

 

I'm saying he knows what the player can do (as will pretty much any manager with a passing interest in the game they work in) and has taken a gamble to try and get something out of him.

 

If you and I know what Balotelli's game is before he signs then why on earth would you think Brendan Rodgers doesn't?

What secs saying relates to a number of fails to shore up the attack sanctioning transfers for mario, borini, aspas. Even if you allow one fuckup in mario how do you explain the other utter turdis riding doctor poos weve had floating round the training ground and expected to lead our line at this great club?

 

You cant explain 7 years of transfer failings under rodgets hees had his time gees its time he should go and sling his hook as well.

[Major Tom]

You cant explain 7 years of transfer failings under rodgets hees had his time gees its time he should go and sling his hook as well.

 

Wut

[Major Tom]

Kenny didnt do well in the transfer market? Yet Suarez and Henderson were signed on Kenny's watch and Carroll's transfer was largely offset by the Torres fee.

The reason for Kenny's departure was less about footballing reasons and more about putting in a manager who fit their model.

Remember the state the club was in when Kenny took over? Rodgers had none of this baggage when he took the reins so comparison is hugely unfair for me.

 

Using that logic, a lot of the dross signed by Rodgers has been largely offset by the Suarez fee.

 

False accounting in reality.

[VladimirIlyich]

Using that logic, a lot of the dross signed by Rodgers has been largely offset by the Suarez fee.

 

False accounting in reality.

Ive never accused Rodgers of signing any more dross than anybody else. Our transfer failings have mainly been to do with the type of player we have bought.

We all dream of a team of number 10s

[Neil G]

They have provided about 20-30m a summer as a budget aside from sales since Rodgers took over, sometime less, Kenny got a decent amount but did not do well which may tell us why.

 

Id say it would be fair to expect to be around 4/5th place spending that kind of money, Rodgers done well getting us higher then that last season and putting together a squad that is capable of top four when key players are fit.

It works out at about £35m a season since Rodgers was appointed.

 

4th or 5th place at this stage might have been a fair expectation if we were looking at it from the beginning when Rodgers was appointed, and working out where we might be by now. But we're not looking at it from summer 2012, we're looking at it from January 2015, eight months on from missing out on the title by a whisker, and having spent more money on the squad since then. In that context, spending more money to go backwards from where we were is unequivocally not a good thing.

 

I'm curious as to why you allow Rodgers a multi-season time frame to assess how well he's doing, but you don't give Kenny the same latitude. Every time you mention Kenny's time in charge you say we didn't progress in the league, but he took us from 12th to 8th in a season and a half, with a similar average net spend during that period to Rodgers. Using the logic you apply to Rodgers, I don't see how you can say that's not progress.

 

No offence mate, but the position that you and others have adopted on the comparison between this season and last exemplifies the drop in standards and ambition that has pervaded this club for too long now. Clubs and managers that end up being successful don't look at periods like our last 12 months and decide that it's all gravy because in the grand plan things are on schedule. They don't bemoan any disadvantage they have compared to their rivals and pat themselves on the back for having done so much better than expected on one occasion. They seize on progress like a second place finish and resolve to build on it and go one better, and view regressions like the one we've witnessed this season as unacceptable. That's what drives them to be champions.

 

I'm just glad that Rodgers seems to have higher expectations for the club than some of the people defending him on here do.

[ratcatcher]

There is no inconsistency or contradiction there. FSG provided enough money for us to challenge for the title, and we nearly won it. They then provided more money which should have been enough for us to challenge again, but we misspent it and went backwards instead, so now we need to spend more.

 

Isnt there?

 

You make it seem that all you need to win a title is to throw copious amounts of money at the team but the scatter gun approach rarely works.

 

And have we 'misspent' the more money they coughed up? Markovic is showing improvement, Can is showing improvement,  Manquillo was never a bad signing, lallana is improving. The only two causing concern are lovren who was a stand out defender for soton last season and balotelli.

 

Now I admit, lovren's form is cause for concern especially as we spent £20m on him. We can debate all day and fail to agree over the reasons for signing balotelli. In his last few games, I think the lad has been unlucky not to grab at least a couple of goals but at £16m, he's hardly wasted money as I suspect we'll get near enough that back if \ when he does move on.

 

So all in all, I dont agree we've misspent the extra money, two of the signings (lovren and balotelli) must improve or will very probably be shipped out. The rest are all improving, all showing signs of bedding in and producing form.

 

But then of course, people start changing debate. The wasted signings that are no longer that are then said to 'not fit' with our style so are still wasted but that's just to cover an exposed argument.

[Tyler Durden]

We ve only beaten southampton west brom swansea and stoke at home this season plus Ludogorets and swansea in cups.

Fucking asking too much you there mate

[SlugTrail]

Isnt there?

 

You make it seem that all you need to win a title is to throw copious amounts of money at the team but the scatter gun approach rarely works.

 

And have we 'misspent' the more money they coughed up? Markovic is showing improvement, Can is showing improvement,  Manquillo was never a bad signing, lallana is improving. The only two causing concern are lovren who was a stand out defender for soton last season and balotelli.

 

Now I admit, lovren's form is cause for concern especially as we spent £20m on him. We can debate all day and fail to agree over the reasons for signing balotelli. In his last few games, I think the lad has been unlucky not to grab at least a couple of goals but at £16m, he's hardly wasted money as I suspect we'll get near enough that back if \ when he does move on.

 

So all in all, I dont agree we've misspent the extra money, two of the signings (lovren and balotelli) must improve or will very probably be shipped out. The rest are all improving, all showing signs of bedding in and producing form.

 

But then of course, people start changing debate. The wasted signings that are no longer that are then said to 'not fit' with our style so are still wasted but that's just to cover an exposed argument.

the Ballotelli money is wasted because, if we miss out on champions league because he was not the player we need, then its not just a couple of mill and a huge weekly wage that we have lost out on and paid, but approx £40m CL money.

[Neil G]

Isnt there?

 

You make it seem that all you need to win a title is to throw copious amounts of money at the team but the scatter gun approach rarely works.

 

And have we 'misspent' the more money they coughed up? Markovic is showing improvement, Can is showing improvement,  Manquillo was never a bad signing, lallana is improving. The only two causing concern are lovren who was a stand out defender for soton last season and balotelli.

 

Now I admit, lovren's form is cause for concern especially as we spent £20m on him. We can debate all day and fail to agree over the reasons for signing balotelli. In his last few games, I think the lad has been unlucky not to grab at least a couple of goals but at £16m, he's hardly wasted money as I suspect we'll get near enough that back if \ when he does move on.

 

So all in all, I dont agree we've misspent the extra money, two of the signings (lovren and balotelli) must improve or will very probably be shipped out. The rest are all improving, all showing signs of bedding in and producing form.

 

But then of course, people start changing debate. The wasted signings that are no longer that are then said to 'not fit' with our style so are still wasted but that's just to cover an exposed argument.

At no point have I said that simply throwing lots of money at the team is enough to get us competing for the title. That's your own interpretation of my posts, because you're not reading them properly. Tom threw the same lazy accusation at me yesterday, and I pointed out to him that I've posted lots recently about the other factors required for success besides how much money we spend.

 

I've written about the need to have a clear plan for how the team is going to set up, the need to target players based on their ability to fit into that setup, the need for a good scouting system to identify said players, the need for a CEO that can swing the deals, the need for both a transfer strategy and a committee arrangement that enables the manager to get the players he really wants, and the need to play players who might contribute something to the team rather than freeze them out for reasons that aren't football related. Fucking loads, in other words.

 

I have explained a number of times why I think the money in the summer was misspent, and why I think that's different from money wasted. As good as the new signings might become in time, we would be in a better position both right now and for the medium-term future if we'd spent the money on urgent first-team needs that still remain unaddressed. I have been consistent in saying that, I haven't moved the goalposts or changed the terms of the debate. I can't speak for anyone else, but your post is in reply to me so I'm assuming you're including me among the targets of your ire.

[Major Tom]

Tom threw the same lazy accusation at me yesterday,

 

Sorry, Neil, it wasn't a lazy accusation at all. It was barely a freaking accusation.

 

You believe the money wasn't spent wisely enough last summer - and if it was we'd be challenging for the league. I accept that view while not agreeing with it. I believe we did pretty well and no manager will ever get it spot on. I also believe we didn't spend enough after losing Suarez, while needing to strengthen the squad as well.

 

No accusations. Just different opinions.

[King Emlyn]

Rodgers is boss, find the constant panning of him bizarre tbh. Still opinions an all tha

[the chimp]

King Emlyn is boss. Happy new Year mate, hope this finds you well.

[Neil G]

Sorry, Neil, it wasn't a lazy accusation at all. It was barely a freaking accusation.

 

You believe the money wasn't spent wisely enough last summer - and if it was we'd be challenging for the league. I accept that view while not agreeing with it. I believe we did pretty well and no manager will ever get it spot on. I also believe we didn't spend enough after losing Suarez, while needing to strengthen the squad as well.

 

No accusations. Just different opinions.

This was the exchange in question from yesterday:

 

They then provided more money which should have been enough for us to challenge again, but we misspent it and went backwards instead, so now we need to spend more.

 

Cos it's that simple!

 

Come on, Neil G!

 

I never said it was that simple Tom. If you'd read this particular exchange properly you'd see I was talking specifically about the amount of money we've spent and might expect to spend under FSG, and whether it was / is enough to enable us to challenge for the title.

 

I know there are numerous other factors that determine our ability to challenge for the title, I have written about them extensively over the last few weeks.

When you said I was oversimplifying, I thought you meant with regards to what we need in order to challenge for the title (i.e. just throw money at it). If you meant with regards to how last summer's money was spent, then apologies for misrepresenting you, but you didn't make it especially clear what you were referring to.

[Major Tom]

When you said I was oversimplifying, I thought you meant with regards to what we need in order to challenge for the title (i.e. just throw money at it). If you meant with regards to how last summer's money was spent, then apologies for misrepresenting you, but you didn't make it especially clear what you were referring to.

 

For whatever reasons (scouting, negotiating, etc), you believe the money wasn't spent wisely enough in the summer and this is behind our poor season so far. That's what I have taken your view to be (over our exchanges) and it's this what I believe to be over-simplifying the issue. If I am misrepresenting your view there, I also apologise. But this is the view I am countering as I believe it goes deeper than just that.

 

That's not to say I don't believe we need to improve transfer dealings. We clearly do.

[Neil G]

For whatever reasons (scouting, negotiating, etc), you believe the money wasn't spent wisely enough in the summer and this is behind our poor season so far. That's what I have taken your view to be (over our exchanges) and it's this what I believe to be over-simplifying the issue. If I am misrepresenting your view there, I also apologise. But this is the view I am countering as I believe it goes deeper than just that.

 

That's not to say I don't believe we need to improve transfer dealings. We clearly do.

No that's not misrepresenting me, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I happen to think the other factors in our poor season that have been cited by you and others wouldn't have been serious issues if we'd spent the money better. Fair enough if you think that's oversimplifying, I think it's all a case of semantics personally.

[Guest davelfc]

He's the Jeremy Kyle of football presenters, dragging it down to the gutter. I remember when Uruguay played their next game after the now infamous biting incident. Suarez wasn't even playing and yet Chiles prattled on like some excited teenage girl about it, I think in the end even Lee Dixon had to turn the attention to the game. 

 

Good fucking riddance, it was like giving the 'Sky at night' to James Corden. 

[Neil G]

He's the Jeremy Kyle of football presenters, dragging it down to the gutter.

Harsh on Rodgers that.

 

Some people will use anything as a stick to beat him with.