Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Pesky foreigners sticking their oar in and interfering with traditional British tax dodging.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/08/paradise-papers-eu-parliament-votes-launch-tax-inquiry?CMP=share_btn_fb

[Denny Crane]

Just PR

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/11/british-farmer-moves-fruit-growing-to-china-over-brexit-uncertainty

Surely that is more evidence for said businesses wanting cheap labour. As Anny says why not move them to Lithuania, Romania etc. That is where a lot of the workers come from at present.

 

As I mentioned before there was mass unharvested food prior to brexit. So how do we know the information being reported now is accurate regarding the unharvested food. When it happened prior to the vote. We know that both sides have invested a fortune in their campaigns and both sides have prominent media advocates who are happy to spin anything positive or negative.

 

8 December 2014 08:47:37 |

 

Farmers are calling for volunteers to salvage thousands of tonnes of fresh fruit and vegetables that are wasted on UK farms every year.

Farmers across the country often have no choice but to leave tonnes of their crops unharvested and either let it rot in the field or plough it back in the soil.

These crops cannot reach the market either because they fail to meet strict cosmetic standards set by retailers or because of overproduction. At the same time, more than 5.8 million people suffer from deep poverty in the UK and cannot afford a decent diet, and this number is on the rise

 

https://www.farminguk.com/News/Farmers-call-on-volunteers-to-salvage-unwanted-produce_31444.html

[Anubis]

This Twitter account has provided me with much amusement this morning. Apparently the UK is now a civil war theatre of operations...

 

https://twitter.com/RepealEULaw/status/963023236417163264?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E3

[Section_31]

Saw a Tweet by a Guardian editor the other day which just summed up all the bollocks beautifully. It was a tweet about food 'rotting in the fields' because of a lack of migrant workers and she'd said something underneath along the lines of 'we've got people going to food banks, there's not enough food to go around and we've got food rotting in the fields!'

 

Fucking hell, where do you start?

 

Foodbanks have got nothing to do with food shortages, but everything to do with a flawed economic system that harnesses migrant labour as one of its many tools the same way it harnesses outsourcing as a way to drive down costs. (* anticipates someone deliberately straw-manning me and insisting I said Poles caused food banks)  

 

Also, maybe if these farmers didn't want the food to rot they should, I dunno, put the wages up?

 

"Ah but the cost will be passed on to the consumer!"

 

No, the supermarket will just have to make a little less scratch won't it?

 

I'm pretty sure before the age of 24 I'd eaten strawberries and I'm not certain but I don't think they cost £18 a punnet.

 

This is all part of the shite that goes with any discussion now. There's a real issue but it's just engulfed by loads of exaggerated and outright daft shite peddled by every blogger and their aunty.

 

I voted remain and, to my mind, the issues with leaving are simple: In a world where China, Russia and now the USA are hostile, we need to be a trading bloc and an organisation that gives us clout, diplomatically and militarily if needs be.

 

What I don't need is the waters being muddied, everytime a gobshite school kid throws a can of Pepsi at an Asian shop owner it resulting in an Owen Jones blog entitled 'Welcome  to Brexit Britain'.

[skend04]

Saw a Tweet by a Guardian editor the other day which just summed up all the bollocks beautifully. It was a tweet about food 'rotting in the fields' because of a lack of migrant workers and she'd said something underneath along the lines of 'we've got people going to food banks, there's not enough food to go around and we've got food rotting in the fields!'

 

Fucking hell, where do you start?

 

Foodbanks have got nothing to do with food shortages, but everything to do with a flawed economic system that harnesses migrant labour as one of its many tools the same way it harnesses outsourcing as a way to drive down costs. (* anticipates someone deliberately straw-manning me and insisting I said Poles caused food banks)

 

Also, maybe if these farmers didn't want the food to rot they should, I dunno, put the wages up?

 

"Ah but the cost will be passed on to the consumer!"

 

No, the supermarket will just have to make a little less scratch won't it?

 

I'm pretty sure before the age of 24 I'd eaten strawberries and I'm not certain but I don't think they cost £18 a punnet.

 

This is all part of the shite that goes with any discussion now. There's a real issue but it's just engulfed by loads of exaggerated and outright daft shite peddled by every blogger and their aunty.

 

I voted remain and, to my mind, the issues with leaving are simple: In a world where China, Russia and now the USA are hostile, we need to be a trading bloc and an organisation that gives us clout, diplomatically and militarily if needs be.

 

What I don't need is the waters being muddied, everytime a gobshite school kid throws a can of Pepsi at an Asian shop owner it resulting in an Owen Jones blog entitled 'Welcome to Brexit Britain'.

Sorry, just to disagree with one bit, British folk will not work on farms as a career choice even if wages were put up. Spectacularly missing the point that it's seasonal and doesn't guarantee a year round wage, especially when it takes at least 6 weeks to get universal benefit in which time British workers would have to pay rent etc. Not to skirt over lack of accommodation, low unemployment rates in the locales of these farms and the unsociable hours too.

 

Why is this lazy assumption/quote always used? The seasonal farming industry has been grown on the back of immigrants for decades, not homegrown talent. If leave voters and the PM want to reduce immigration then you'll inevitably lose the industry.

[Section_31]

Sorry, just to disagree with one bit, British folk will not work on farms as a career choice even if wages were put up. Spectacularly missing the point that it's seasonal and doesn't guarantee a year round wage, especially when it takes at least 6 weeks to get universal benefit in which time British workers would have to pay rent etc. Not to skirt over lack of accommodation, low unemployment rates in the locales of these farms and the unsociable hours too.

 

Why is this lazy assumption/quote always used? The seasonal farming industry has been grown on the back of immigrants for decades, not homegrown talent. If leave voters and the PM want to reduce immigration then you'll inevitably lose the industry.

 

So who was doing it before 2004 then? Can't they do it again?

[Anny Road]

No one is denying seasonal workers work. Where has that been legislated on?

[Section_31]

No one is denying seasonal workers work. Where has that been legislated on?

 

We need more Australians with their big sweaty tits, hard drinking and overt racism.  

[Anny Road]

We need more Australians with their big sweaty tits, hard drinking and overt racism.

 

Nah we don’t. There are only so many bar jobs to fill.

[skend04]

So who was doing it before 2004 then? Can't they do it again?

Irish immigrants in the 14th Century. Eastern European migrants Post War through SAWS. Asian workers in the 80s and 90s. European workers with the advent of the EU.

 

Not saying that there weren't homegrown workers, they made up much of the workforce. But the industry is massively different now and is way past the point of paying more wages as an enticement.

[SasaS]

In David Mitchell's The Bone Clocks, all workers picking strawberries at a Kent farm in 1984 are British. Students, travelling folk musicians, working class people on their summer holiday, runaways and there is one gipsy characters I think. Oddly, no immigrants.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Also, maybe if these farmers didn't want the food to rot they should, I dunno, put the wages up?

 

"Ah but the cost will be passed on to the consumer!"

 

No, the supermarket will just have to make a little less scratch won't it?

 

Sorry to wade in here, but are you seriously suggesting that wages for farm workers will go up and food prices WON'T rise because the supermarket will choose to "just make a little less scratch"?

[Jose Jones]

Ne Moe Imya, on 14 Feb 2018 - 1:06 PM, said:

 

Sorry to wade in here, but are you seriously suggesting that wages for farm workers will go up and food prices WON'T rise because the supermarket will choose to "just make a little less scratch"?

Aye, those same supermarkets who have been gouging price on farmers for decades, which has led to some of the shady, cost cutting farming and food production practices (not all, some farmers were quite capable of being unscrupulous bastards on their own).

[Jairzinho]

I think Sec might be suggesting what should or could happen, rather than what would.

 

Our cunt system of economics isn't dependent on being in or out of the EU. Even if the results of leaving will probably make things worse within said cunt system.

[Anny Road]

Boris Johnson due to make a speech today which is expected to be a rallying call to remain voters to get on board the make Britain great again right wing agenda. We are all in this together all over again I suspect.

He can fuck off but hopefully this will open up Tory divisions even deeper and be seen as the first jab in a leadership challenge.

[Vincent Vega]

Johnson is probably the worst person possible apart from Farage to try and reach out and unite the country on Brexit. He's just on manoeuvres again for the upcoming fight to replace May. Is he going to be available to answer questions from the media? I'm be interested to hear him justify the impending economic damage that has been forecasted by the government's own civil servants.

 

That Daniel Hannan weirdo was on Newsnight last night saying how great and liberalising Brexit will be, and that we will all benefit from cheaper food in the supermarkets as we will be able to import farm grown foods from countries outside the EU. So we will basically swap exploiting EU foreign workers picking food in the UK to exploiting non-EU foreign workers in their own countries. I'm sure British farmers will be delighted to hear this, but then I'm not sure I have too much sympathy as some of the biggest supporting areas of Brexit were rural farming communities in Cumbria, Eastern England, South West England and Wales.

[cloggypop]

Flooding the country with cheap imports is not going to be good for employment of course, although once the red tape is slashed and worker's rights are removed and wages hit rock bottom we will be able to compete a little better.

[magicrat]

Boris Johnson due to make a speech today which is expected to be a rallying call to remain voters to get on board the make Britain great again right wing agenda. We are all in this together all over again I suspect.

He can fuck off but hopefully this will open up Tory divisions even deeper and be seen as the first jab in a leadership challenge.

 

As Bill Bailey so aptly described him when I saw him recently. " The bloated corpse of a gigantic albino fur seal" 

[Strontium]

Sorry to wade in here, but are you seriously suggesting that wages for farm workers will go up and food prices WON'T rise because the supermarket will choose to "just make a little less scratch"?

Let's assume that the situation is as simple as paying higher wages for grunt work, and that the impossible happens, and that supermarkets choose to degrade their own profits. That whole idea seems to be predicated upon a false notion that businesses are owned by a few super rich fatcats rather than, say, everyone who has a pension, who rely upon continued profit to sustain a post-retirement income.

 

We have to get away from this Marxist idea that profit is a bad thing.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Let's assume that the situation is as simple as paying higher wages for grunt work, and that the impossible happens, and that supermarkets choose to degrade their own profits. That whole idea seems to be predicated upon a false notion that businesses are owned by a few super rich fatcats rather than, say, everyone who has a pension, who rely upon continued profit to sustain a post-retirement income.

 

We have to get away from this Marxist idea that profit is a bad thing.

We have to get away from using terrible examples of ownership, I reckon. Profit isn't a bad thing, it's how that profit is used and who that profit is benefiting that's the real issue. Capitalism isn't bad. Neither, BTW, is Socialism or even Communism, but they need to be adjusted and altered so that the potential - even obvious - downsides are managed. Painting a picture of big business as a pension paying co-operative without understanding or admitting that prices going up is bad for consumers, and potentially the economy, and that incredibly rich owners who hold more shares than hundreds of others benefits all bar one person, is a dangerous piece of artwork.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I've just discovered that the Reebok Stadium changed its name to the Macron Stadium a few years ago.

 

How come none of you neoliberal Juncker-lovers want to talk about the Macron Stadium? Eh? Eh?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Johnson is probably the worst person possible apart from Farage

No arguments from me.

[skend04]

20 months on and all the leave politicians can give us is something about jam and carrots. I'm hoping our own leavers on this thread can provide more insight as I've got an 8 year old kid whose future prospects are looking a bit shite right about now.

 

If that speech yesterday is supposed to have been the culmination of recent Brexit war cabinet meetings then it must have been chaired by Corporal Pike.

[Moctezuma]

I find Johnson's enduring popularity utterly bizarre, even the average person who isn't politically engaged must realise at a bare minimum he is one of the most self-interested politicians going?

[Stickman]

I find Johnson's enduring popularity utterly bizarre, even the average person who isn't politically engaged must realise at a bare minimum he is one of the most self-interested politicians going?

 

 

Who Boris???

 

Surely not...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Mhokzv-jw