Do we miss Lucas

[Code]

Had nowhere else to put this as I did not want to start a new thread, but after us appointing Rodgers I've looked a bit into Swansea, their style and their players.

 

Joe Allen is a player I have heard good things about all season but I've only seen him twice, in the matches against us where I watched the last one on my laptop and that really does not give you a good look at things and I tend to focus on our own players when I watch a game.

 

What surprised me though was Allens defensive statistics, when you look at it along with his superior passing and involvement this might be the CM we have been looking for to take us a step forward.

 

I have not studied him in a game but by looking at his stats it suggest to me he is a far more complete midfielder than Lucas.

 

Those who have studied him, what are your thoughts on the matter?

 

Stats below.

 

Joe Allan stats 11/12 vs Lucas Leiva 10/11:

Goals: 4 vs 0

Goal assist: 2 vs 1

 

Red card: 1 vs 1

Yellow card: 1 vs 6

 

Fouls Conceded: 27 vs 66

Fouls won: 49 vs 51

 

Tackles lost: 28 vs 61 - 25,45% vs 35,46%

Tackles won: 82 vs 111 - 74,55% vs 64,54%

 

Shot on target: 13 vs 4 - 48,14% vs 30,76%

Total shot: 27 vs 13 - one shot every 107,07min vs 219,76min

 

Att. created: 44 vs 22 - one attack every 65,70min vs 129,86min

 

Total Passes: 2177 vs 1794 - one pass every 1,32min vs 1,59min

Acc. Passes: 1972 vs 1484 - 90,58% vs 82,72%

 

Appearances: 36 vs 33

Minutes played: 2891 vs 2857

[dirk grout]

Is there no end to this idiotic spackery?

[Code]

Is there no end to this idiotic spackery?

 

You dont think its a valid question?

 

Can I ask you way?

 

Like I said I have never studied Allen, but it looks to me like he could do much of the same things Lucas does, even a bit better and also add another dimension to our game from the CM position, something we certainly need if we want to move forward.

[Torvald Utne]

The most meaningless set of stats I have ever witnessed.

[Il Fenomeno]

Those who have studied him, what are your thoughts on the matter?

 

No way. Allen's passing is much less ambitious than Lucas' passing, and that's saying something! He went a whole game at White Hart Lane without a single forward pass this season (Or I think thats what a commentator said).

 

Also Allen has no physical presence off the ball and you wouldn't even notice him playing if his team never got possession unlike Lucas who will always be tackling and winning the ball.

 

Allen would make a pretty good partner for Lucas though, but not his replacement. Teams would just walk through us like they did when we had Spearing/Adam as the holding midfielder after Lucas got injured. And even if we got Allen to partner Lucas, I'm not sure how much better than Spearing or Adam he is, or if he's even better than them at all.

[Code]

But it looks like Allen likes to tackle and he seems to win most of them, on top of that he does not give away many fouls either according to the numbers I just posted.

 

How much pace has he got by the way, Lucas lack of pace is my main gripe with him as not only does it result in players getting away from him, but it also results in him giving away loads of free kicks as he is slow often too late into situations.

 

Just checked the Spurs game, Allen made 59 passes that game, 57 of them reached a teammate, thats 96,61% and he was involved more than 25 times in Spurs half so it cant have been that bad.

[Guest TK-421]

Is there no end to this idiotic spackery?

 

No.

[Dan]

Its a damn shame he was injured for half that season because IMO he would have got better as the season went on,even though we were shite in front of goal.Lucas is going to be fucking tops next season.He is just the type of player that will excel under rodgers.He was up there with the best DM's in world football before he got injured and you can dish out all the stats you want ,he was and that's that

[Gym Beglin]

Allen is terrific,but it works so well because he's got a likeminded player next to him in Britton.

They give it to each other a lot of the time, just trying to work an angle for a forward pass.

 

I look forward to seeing Rodgers take on it and who he thinks is needed.

[Code]

No.

 

Happy to see you are doing fine TK.

 

In case you have not already signed up.

 

Fenerbahce.Net.TR - Forum - Transfer, Son Dakika Haberleri

[Il Fenomeno]

But it looks like Allen likes to tackle and he seems to win most of them, on top of that he does not give away many fouls either according to the numbers I just posted.

 

How much pace has he got by the way, Lucas lack of pace is my main gripe with him as not only does it result in players getting away from him, but it also results in him giving away loads of free kicks as he is slow often too late into situations.

 

Just checked the Spurs game, Allen made 59 passes that game, 57 of them reached a teammate, thats 96,61% and he was involved more than 25 times in Spurs half so it cant have been that bad.

 

He's not really pacy, he's more agile and he'll get away from opponents with quick feet rather than pace (much like the Barca midfielders, though obviously with a bit less skill!). I wouldn't back him in a 1v1 foot race against anyone though. He's defo a bit quicker than Lucas at turning quickly or over the first 5 yards but I wouldn't really back him over a decent distance against even Lucas.

 

His tackling stats are superior because he doesn't really attempt as many tackles as Lucas (IMO), and he tries to intercept the ball before it gets to his opponent rather than tackling his opponent when he gets the ball. He'll only commit to tackles that he's got a big chance of winning otherwise he'll just stand off his opponent.

 

Plus he doesn't win as much in the air as Lucas does for us, or Busquets does for Barca as an example, and thats one disadvantage with his height.

 

He has made quite a big impact on Wales since he's been selected in CM and we've been much better at keeping the ball since he was handed a start by Gary Speed. But he partners Andrew Crofts for Wales who is a more of a Lucas type player (though not half as good obviously) than Allen.

[Guest TK-421]

Happy to see you are doing fine TK.

 

In case you have not already signed up.

 

Fenerbahce.Net.TR - Forum - Transfer, Son Dakika Haberleri

 

Do you post there?

[Code]

Its a damn shame he was injured for half that season because IMO he would have got better as the season went on,even though we were shite in front of goal.Lucas is going to be fucking tops next season.He is just the type of player that will excel under rodgers.He was up there with the best DM's in world football before he got injured and you can dish out all the stats you want ,he was and that's that

 

I agree it is a shame Lucas got injured, as we did not have anyone up to the standard to replace him.

 

But I'm of the belief a CM need to add more to the game than he does and thats why I found it interesting Allens defensive stats were as promising as they were, but I'd like to know more about him as a player.

 

Britton as mentioned above does not get close in any way though apart from the passing.

 

Lean Britton stats 11/12:

Goals 0

Goal assist 0

 

Red card 0

Yellow card 3

 

Fouls Conceded 13

Fouls won 43

 

Tackles lost 23

Tackles won 39

 

Shot on target 0

Total shot 3

 

Att. created 10

Total Passes 2258

Acc. Passes 2111

 

Appearances 36

Minutes played 3019

[Anubis]

Lucas will be integral to Rodgers' plans. Can't wait to see him back and rearing to go.

[Code]

He's not really pacy, he's more agile and he'll get away from opponents with quick feet rather than pace (much like the Barca midfielders, though obviously with a bit less skill!). I wouldn't back him in a 1v1 foot race against anyone though. He's defo a bit quicker than Lucas at turning quickly or over the first 5 yards but I wouldn't really back him over a decent distance against even Lucas.

 

His tackling stats are superior because he doesn't really attempt as many tackles as Lucas (IMO), and he tries to intercept the ball before it gets to his opponent rather than tackling his opponent when he gets the ball. He'll only commit to tackles that he's got a big chance of winning otherwise he'll just stand off his opponent.

 

Plus he doesn't win as much in the air as Lucas does for us, or Busquets does for Barca as an example, and thats one disadvantage with his height.

 

He has made quite a big impact on Wales since he's been selected in CM and we've been much better at keeping the ball since he was handed a start by Gary Speed. But he partners Andrew Crofts for Wales who is a more of a Lucas type player (though not half as good obviously) than Allen.

 

Cheers for that, interesting and new information is always appreciated.

[sh#t waffle]

But it looks like Allen likes to tackle and he seems to win most of them, on top of that he does not give away many fouls either according to the numbers I just posted.

 

How much pace has he got by the way, Lucas lack of pace is my main gripe with him as not only does it result in players getting away from him, but it also results in him giving away loads of free kicks as he is slow often too late into situations.

 

Just checked the Spurs game, Allen made 59 passes that game, 57 of them reached a teammate, thats 96,61% and he was involved more than 25 times in Spurs half so it cant have been that bad.

 

Having to tackle makes a player shit though (some wise sage taught me that, I forget who); ergo Allen must be even shitter than Lucas. Also, can you not play cowards' passes in the opposition half?

[KopOut]

But it looks like Allen likes to tackle and he seems to win most of them, on top of that he does not give away many fouls either according to the numbers I just posted.

 

How much pace has he got by the way, Lucas lack of pace is my main gripe with him as not only does it result in players getting away from him, but it also results in him giving away loads of free kicks as he is slow often too late into situations.

 

Just checked the Spurs game, Allen made 59 passes that game, 57 of them reached a teammate, thats 96,61% and he was involved more than 25 times in Spurs half so it cant have been that bad.

 

Based on your niggling of Lucas imperfections, we obviously need to replace the whole goddamn team. Reina lets in too many goals, Johnson and Enrique miss too many tackles, and Suarez and Carroll don't score enough - all compared to 'such and such'. Why are you always on a wind-up? I think you may have 'issues'.

[KopOut]

Lucas, was the difference last season. End of.

 

Assuming full fitness, he'll be the bomb and will easily adapt to Brengun's new system.

We mustn't forget that Lucas has been playing a specific role as a holding midfilder, which was instigated by Rafa (Lucas came to Liverpool from Gremio as an attacking midfielder) Lucas had to adapt to this role, because he was always going to have to compete with Stevie G. Playing alongside Stevie, attacking hasn't been a skill required of him, but I reckon the pace is there.

 

Lucas could well be the complete midfielder, given the opportunity, and assuming full fitness.

[Code]

Having to tackle makes a player shit though (some wise sage taught me that, I forget who); ergo Allen must be even shitter than Lucas. Also, can you not play cowards' passes in the opposition half?

 

Allen made 110 tackle attempts and won 82 of them, Lucas made 172 and won 111 of them, Allen made 27 fouls, Lucas 66.

 

Spot the difference.

 

When it comes to coward passes you have obviously not grasped the concept.

 

Based on your niggling of Lucas imperfections, we obviously need to replace the whole goddamn team. Reina lets in too many goals, Johnson and Enrique miss too many tackles, and Suarez and Carroll don't score enough - all compared to 'such and such'. Why are you always on a wind-up? I think you may have 'issues'.

 

This was actually a post about Allen, not Lucas.

 

It just fitted in here because they play in the same position.

[BringbackBiscan]

Allen is just this years Charlie Adam.

[Jairzinho]

He's a good player, Allen. You wouldn't play him instead of Lucas, he'd be decent alongside him.

[zico]

He's a good player, Allen. You wouldn't play him instead of Lucas, he'd be decent alongside him.

 

This!

 

If we want a player in to give Lucas competition I would not be surprised to see this lad get signed...

 

Jordy Clasie. Part One - YouTube

 

Jordy Clasie 2011/2012 Part Two - YouTube

[Gym Beglin]

Lucas is back in Gremio ( his family city ), and is starting to play footy again.

 

Lucas OUT for the season

[Gym Beglin]

This!

 

If we want a player in to give Lucas competition I would not be surprised to see this lad get signed...

 

Jordy Clasie. Part One - YouTube

 

Jordy Clasie 2011/2012 Part Two - YouTube

 

I'm in love, he look terrific.

 

In fact, thefootymob has highlighted some other lovely players on YouTube, like Tabanou and Duricic.

 

But that Clasie, fuck off, he's mint.

[silverlining]

Lucas, was the difference last season. End of.

 

Assuming full fitness, he'll be the bomb and will easily adapt to Brengun's new system.

We mustn't forget that Lucas has been playing a specific role as a holding midfilder, which was instigated by Rafa (Lucas came to Liverpool from Gremio as an attacking midfielder) Lucas had to adapt to this role, because he was always going to have to compete with Stevie G. Playing alongside Stevie, attacking hasn't been a skill required of him, but I reckon the pace is there.

 

Lucas could well be the complete midfielder, given the opportunity, and assuming full fitness.

 

Is this some kind of fucking joke?

 

Lucas HIMSELF has admitted that he had to change his playing style and position, as he wasn't good enough to play as an attacking/ box-to-box midfielder in the Premiership.

 

So let's move on, shall we?