Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Major Tom]

Believe it or not I can see your point of view, but I think we all know what it is by now, so perhaps you are labouring the point a bit.

 

For the avoidance of confusion, my own view on it is that I don't believe Suarez is a racist. I think he was probably being playful with Evra without meaning any harm by it, and is horrified by the accusation of racism.

 

On the subject of Manc conspiracies; I don't believe this is a conspiracy, but I would never put it past them to take advantage of a situation to unsettle an opponent, and I do think they get a little bit too much love from the FA.

 

The FA's stance on this is, I believe, a little bit hypocritical with respect to the Terry situation, and I don't see why an ongoing police investigation precludes them from making charges against Terry when there is clear evidence and an admission of using pejorative language, albeit in a situation where he claims he did not intend it so.

 

I actually agree with most of that. The Manc thing I am not so sure about though.

 

But, yeah, I am definitely waiting with interest at the outcome of the Terry racism affair.

[stringvest]

This thread is being taken over by ill-educated, ill-informed morons.

Fuck it, it's a waste of my time and intellect

 

Jesus fucking Christ

[Coro]

The Manc thing I am not so sure about though.

 

The top club in the country with the longest serving and most successful manager in recent times, getting sweet treatment from the football association. Hardly unheard of, is it. Factor the media into that and there's a nice little tea party going on there.

 

As for Evra pulling this whole thing from thin air, since all this kicked off i've thought how even in a game of 5 a side, someone's giving you the runaround, there's verbals going on, it's very easy to lose your head. Evra's a hothead, runs his mouth a bit, gets some back, gets shown his arse and after the match doesn't know what to do with himself, Suarez has been cheeky, said a few things that Evra's not liked the sound of, next thing French TV are shoving a microphone in his face and boom, sweet release. It's vent city without a thought for the consequences.

 

The media get stuck in, the FA fumble for too long and soon enough we'll have a star player with a fine excuse to move abroad.

[Trucker Paddy]

 

Why can't you accept there is a possibility that Suarez may be guilty here and it's not all down to some pro Manc conspiracy?

 

Surely you would agree that a hearing is the best platform for which Suarez to prove his innocence. Any other way and the accusation would linger. This way he can clear his name for once and for all.

 

Why have united not brought in the police, why did 3 pro manc hacks run with identical stories on Monday about "ethnic differences" and there's not a shred of evidence, if there was Sky woulda had it on a 24 hour loop

[JB2]

I still don't see what all the fuss is about re Suarez and Terry. I think crying racism is just going too far. The facts are that Ferdinand and Evra are black. Evra is also French. If he was called a French cunt would he be offended? If he was a white French man and he was called a French cunt would he be offended? I don't thin he would. This whole ethnic origin bullshit. People are originally from somewhere and as such they are different in certain ways to others from other areas. Calling someone a nigger is bad but calling someone a negrito or black is not. It is merely describing them like calling them French, Irish, cunt, short-arse, fat, ginger etc, etc.

 

How many times have people had to fill a form that asks you to fill out nationality and race etc. Jaysus soon forms will just say name and all things like weight, height, gender will be done away with. We won't be able to describe ourselves in any way as we are classifying someone.

 

You speak as someone obviously has absolutely no clue how offensive racial abuse is.

 

I suggest you look at how much uproar blatter's comments have caused, and then you may realise how sensitive the issue is.

 

However I repeat I don't think he intended to racially abuse Evra, but he has left himself open to the accusation i he used that term in the context of an argument.

[Anubis]

Say that to a Manc fan and they'll laugh in your face.

 

Who gives a flying fuck what Manc fans think?

[JohnnyH]

I really think you are all been overly hard on Major Tom. I also think some of you are acting very precious because the accused is a Liverpool player.

 

Zig is absolutely right that he is innocent until proven guilty, but it is pretty daft to therefore basically say there can be no discussion and “what ifs” on the possibility of him being a wee bit cheeky and calling the lad a term which he knows will be putting Evra down while pointing at his race.

 

Personally I don’t think Suarez is a racist, but I do winder if maybe he used a term while ok in a friendly way or when used in South America, could maybe seen as not ok in England.

 

Either way, if they have charged him, then they feel there is a case to answer. They will not have charged him without some level of proof. I think the people who keep saying that there is no proof just because of the silence need to hold their council for a bit because obviously if there is any proof, it is not going to be sent out in to the public domain for discussion

 

When push comes to shove, there is a very real chance we could be without Suarez for a quite while as there is no way they will just give him the minimum 6 games. He could easily get 10 games. i.e. a quarter of the season. And without him, you feel we could be in very very big trouble.

 

Stop been so precious.

[Barnesey]

I suspect the FA have no evidence outside Evra's testimony but they are in a difficult place and have to be seen to be doing something.

 

A hearing is, possibly, the best way for Luis to clear his name and the FA to show they take these things seriously

[ChrisM]

Just a few points (if Code will allow me).

 

People are saying how can he be charged when there is no evidence, well they have obviously charged him after talking to both Evra and Suarez and taking statements, so it would appear obvious to me that Suarez has admitted calling him something along the lines of 'negrito', something which people are claiming there is no evidence of. If he's admitted it, then there is no need for evidence. In that intrerview that he shouldn't have done the other week Suarez admitted calling him something, so it would appear cut and dried. He will now have to prove that what he said doesn't have any racial connotations.

 

Secondly, some people seem to be saying that Evra has backtracked after claiming that Suarez called him a 'n****r' on Canal Plus. Evra never claimed he used that word, in fact he said he wouldn't reveal what the word was (revealing in itself, I think).

 

Thirdly, Major Tom - I know what you are saying, and I agree with much of it, but give it a rest. You're saying the same thing over and over and over over again. You're doing a very good impression of someone repeatedly banging their head against a brick wall to see if it hurts.

 

Fourthly, the club statement was spot on, and shows that they are very confident in backing Suarez.

 

And finally, Evra is a massive cunt.

[matthewsamson]

54 pages, and nobody has a clue what Suarez said, or is accused of saying.

[skend04]

FA have blundered big time. How can you charge someone and say alleged? You don't hear the police saying "I'm arresting you for allegedly killing major tom" do you? You don't hear courts say "you are charged for allegedly being racist"? Absolutely nonesensical #FARacist.

[Faustus]

I hope the club are consulting their lawyers because without proper evidence, the FA haven't got a leg to stand on.

[Whelan]

Personally I don’t think Suarez is a racist, but I do winder if maybe he used a term while ok in a friendly way or when used in South America, could maybe seen as not ok in England.

 

You see this really pisses me off, not you in your reply, but this sentence!

 

How, and in what way do you think we can do this? Welcome any foreign player to our shores and give them a list of colloquial terms that could be misconstrued and therefore should be ignored?

 

The fact that is always ignored about racism and racist language is that it almost always relies upon context, which is why Aussies call the Pakistan cricket team 'Pakis' and we don't. It has a racial context in this country.

 

IF he has said 'Negrito' it has non racial contexts in its use, this isn't about him being silly, this is about why he used the word! He wasn't using the term as pejorative, it had no racist context. So it doesn't matter one iota where he is now plying his trade, and it doesn't matter the relationship between Negrita and Nigger, it matters what was the motivation behind the using the word. If that wasn't of a racial nature then I cannot see why he is being charged.

 

If they cannot charge him for using a racial slur that was intended to offend on the basis of colour then they cannot, under any circumstances charge him for using abusive language, because that happens during every match.

[xerxes]

FA have blundered big time. How can you charge someone and say alleged?

Because a charge is not a conviction.

[silverlining]

I ma enjoying some of these tags.

 

"a great bunch of lads"

[ngogswilly]

I really think you are all been overly hard on Major Tom. I also think some of you are acting very precious because the accused is a Liverpool player.

 

Zig is absolutely right that he is innocent until proven guilty, but it is pretty daft to therefore basically say there can be no discussion and “what ifs” on the possibility of him being a wee bit cheeky and calling the lad a term which he knows will be putting Evra down while pointing at his race.

 

Personally I don’t think Suarez is a racist, but I do winder if maybe he used a term while ok in a friendly way or when used in South America, could maybe seen as not ok in England.

 

Either way, if they have charged him, then they feel there is a case to answer. They will not have charged him without some level of proof. I think the people who keep saying that there is no proof just because of the silence need to hold their council for a bit because obviously if there is any proof, it is not going to be sent out in to the public domain for discussion

 

When push comes to shove, there is a very real chance we could be without Suarez for a quite while as there is no way they will just give him the minimum 6 games. He could easily get 10 games. i.e. a quarter of the season. And without him, you feel we could be in very very big trouble.

 

Stop been so precious.

 

Agree with all that part. But Tom's not just getting a hard time because hes been saying Suarez might be guilty.

 

Hes just out righting refusing to see whats plainly in front of everyone. The Mancs have manipulated this whole thing beyond belief.

 

As a few others have said, its more than a little suspicious, 3 journos at 3 different papers on the same day ran with almost word for word identical stories with the basic point of "Hey guys, we don't have much evidence but we think Suarez is guilty".

 

Its as clear as day the Manc PR machine orchestrated it. Theres an active campaign being led to say hes guilty and its ramped up this week big time because they knew this charge was coming. It just stinks of something which is as good as done and dusted and Luis is fucked. The FA won't dare rule against the Mancs.

 

Now the big question in my mind is what will they do with Terry? They have to at the bare minimum charge him. But maybe its convenient for them its a police matter now. If the police don't take it any further they can drop it.

Even though hes admitted saying "Black Cunt". And the circumstances he says he used it in is just laughably obsurd.

 

At least Luis can argue hes a foreigner and between different cultural and lingustic circumstances he can say it was a misunderstanding.

 

If Terry doesn't get at least charged surely we can use that to our favour.

[coachpotato]

After the united game Luis claimed he hadn't said anyhting to Evra.

There was no footage to back Evra up.

There were no Sky headlines or endless loops.

There were no banner headlines in the Manc loving press.

ferguson never alluded to the fact, which he would've found some way to, had there been any evidence.

Then last week in Uruguay Luis said he had said something, which wasn't racist, but he had said something.

As soon as I heard that I thought he'd lose the case and it looks like the FA will jump all over him and ban him, as, by opening his mouth, he's gave them the only excuse that they've needed to bang him to rights and make it stick.

I hope LFC's legal team are good, as this will have to go to the court of arbitration I fear.

[xerxes]

It strikes me that many different arguments are becoming well and truly mangled here.

 

Racist abuse is wrong, whoever the player, whatever the club.

 

In society generally we have started to tie ourselves up in knots over certain words in which context becomes all. On the football field, and in the dressing room, banter regularly takes place which out of context may appear extremely insulting. What appears to be happening is that exchanges which were previously being accepted by some players, are no longer being accepted, which is why both Terry and Suarez have found themselves (the former by video, the latter by self admission, apparently) of using language which could have a racist context, but which the player denies was racist.

 

It seems we now have a tripwire where using an offending word is seen as no different from donning white cloaks and setting burning crosses ablaze. I have an Asian friend who will happily announce she is going down to the Paki shop, but took understandable umbrage when described as a f****** Paki by an uncouth lout.

 

Players need to understand that the argument that although words which may be deemed as racist were used, the player themselves isn’t racist and they have loads of black friends, is no defence. The argument which Suarez appears to be mounting of cultural context IS, in my view a defence, although it is beholden on other players and the Club to correct such misunderstandings pretty smartish.

 

Bluntly, players who are being paid fortunes as representatives of their clubs and whose every word might be monitored on the pitch by dozens of cameras are going to have to wise up – right or wrong.

[Antynwa]

It's all about context.

 

If Suarez called Evra a fucking Negreito it's bordering on a racist remark.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

[Antynwa]

Lets say Suarez and Evra are both telling the truth.

 

Why did Suarez call Evra a negreito 10 times? That's if he did.

[ChrisM]

It's all about context.

 

If Suarez called Evra a fucking Negreito it's bordering on a racist remark.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

Well no, beacuse it's not really STATING anything is it, hence your use of the word 'bordering'.

[Antynwa]

Well no, beacuse it's not really STATING anything is it, hence your use of the word 'bordering'.

 

You're avoiding the issue at hand. In this country you don't antagonise someone based on the colour of their skin.

 

I don't think it's asking too much of the club or even Suarez to be made aware of the cultural differences.

 

Suarez has been ignorant not racist.

[AnnaJu14]

54 pages, and nobody has a clue what Suarez said, or is accused of saying.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

Few on here need to chill out and get off their soapboxes.

[Antynwa]

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

Few on here need to chill out and get off their soapboxes.

 

Yes we do.

 

He called him a negreito, he said so himself. What is important is the context, cultural or otherwise.

[ChrisM]

I hope the club are consulting their lawyers because without proper evidence, the FA haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

But Suarez has admitted to calling him something, the FA don't need evidence.