Roy Hodgson, know your role and shut your mouth

[snez1]

Got exactly what he deserved. Fucking woeful from start to finish regardless of what anyone says. One Man & His Blog: Italy finally expose Hodgson

 

 

For once in this tournament an English television pundit summed it all up perfectly. On ITV's England v Italy highlights show Jamie Carragher said what everyone should have been saying the moment that Roy Hodgson was given the England job. To paraphrase the Liverpool defender, Carragher, strangely passionate for once regarding all things England, said 'we talk about getting kids to play more like Spain in this country, to keep the ball and pass but who is the manager of the England first team? Roy Hodgson, who plays with two banks of four and doesn't play with a passing style'. Nail. Head.

 

As damning statistics flashed up on the screen regarding possession (Roy doesn't believe in that, remember?), shots on target, passes made etc against Italy, the massacre that Andrea Pirlo and his co conspirators had inflicted on England over a tortuous two hours was hammered home. Carragher again led the way in sensible rhetoric. 'This Italy team isn't a great Italy team and they've played us off the park tonight. Those stats are what you would expect from a Championship side when they play against a Premier League team'. I'd have changed only the end of Carragher's analysis. Those stats are what you would expect from a Roy Hodgson team against any quality opposition.

 

For two weeks Hodgson had got the nation on his side. I don't know how he did it, but he did. He convinced a country boasting one of the strongest squads at this tournament that qualifying from a group containing Sweden and Ukraine was 'exceeding expectations'. I often felt like the world had turned upside down as people blindly refused to acknowledge my assertion that Roy Hodgson was not taking English football forwards, but backwards. 'Ignore the fact we've had the least possession and shots on target of any team in the competition, we're winning, we're playing with spirit and heart' was the much heard retort. I'm sorry, but blocking shots left, right and centre and conceding ground to the likes Ukraine doesn't represent progress for English football. Neither does a rigid 442 system with two banks of four camped on the edge of your own area for two thirds of each match regardless of the opposition. As someone who suffered through a Roy Hodgson led team with my club side Liverpool, all of this was familiar to me and the notion that the ends justified the means regarding England's ugly approach infuriated me as history had already shown me that his failings will eventually come to the fore when luck deserts him. And boy were those failings shown up against Italy. The make up and fake tan were removed by the Italians and suddenly England looked decidedly hideous in the unforgiving light of day. Try as he might, Hodgson can't fool all of the people all of the time with his approach.

 

As England topped their group and Roy was lauded to high heaven by fans and pressmen alike, Liverpool supporters like myself were criticised as we had apparently not given Hodgson enough support or time at Anfield. Rubbish. He was hounded out of Merseyside for his woeful football and rigid tactics. He turned a Liverpool team containing talent like Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Kuyt, Maxi, Johnson, Agger and Lucas into a team that were fighting relegation and playing like West Brom or Stoke on a weekly basis. It was Hodgson's way, it remains Hodgson's way and it will continue to be Hodgson's way. That is why he will drag English football to lower recesses than we've seen for years.

 

If Fabio Capello had produced football as sterile as what Hodgson has served up during Euro 2012 then he'd have been a national pariah. This England team boasts world class players in every department. Hart, Cole, Gerrard and Rooney would walk into most sides in world football. They are surrounded by players who have won Premier League titles and have a wealth of Champions League experience. They are not the no-hopers that they are often made out to be. Nor did they come up against the likes of Spain or Germany which is when Hodgson's approach would perhaps have been acceptable or at least, understandable. Playing negatively against sides that are clearly much better than you (as Spain and Germany undoubtedly are) is one thing. Doing it against teams who don't have one player who would be good enough to make your squad is another matter entirely.

 

It is so blindingly obvious that Hodgson won't improve England going forward in any way what so ever. His tactical set up has never deviated from it's current archaic incarnation. It is Chelsea in Europe last season. It is Greece in Euro 2004. It is underdog football that rarely prevails and offers no sustainable model going forward. It relies solely on keeping it tight, working hard and hoping for a bit of luck. When that luck runs out however, what are you left with? What crumbs of comfort did Euro 2012 offer for England? Have they shown any positive attacking play? Have they shown they can beat big sides or even live with them in terms of possession or quality on the ball? Have they laid any foundations for the future regarding their footballing philosophy? No. But apparently that is irrelevant to most when you are somehow squeezing out lucky victories against the might of Ukraine.

 

The most perplexing offering from the press and supporters of England this summer has been the myth regarding England's much lauded bravery. This is astonishing and could not be further from the truth. It also highlights the lack of knowledge this country has when it comes to the beautiful game. Bravery in football is trying to keep the ball under pressure, attacking the opposition and doing so with style. It isn't kicking the ball up to your hulking number 9 in the hope that he can win a flick on. It isn't sitting 8 men in front of your goal. It isn't putting your faith in a lucky bounce going your way. England returned home after playing like cowards when they possessed a calibre of player that promised so much more regardless of what Roy Hodgson and his sympathisers say to the contrary. If you disagree then I'd ask you to answer this question: How many of the French players would you have swapped for England's when they faced each other in the first game? Three? Four? England had at least an equal (I'd argue more than equal) level of quality in their team that night and yet they simply retreated into their shells and let the French do what they wanted. Yes, Scott Parker blocked the ball, yes John Terry threw himself into tackles but that isn't bravery in a footballing sense. Bravery would have been trying to out play France and win the match, not merely surviving. Italy's performance against Spain was real footballing bravery. They attacked a far superior team at every opportunity, went toe to toe with the Spaniards for 90 minutes and could easily have beaten the world champions that day. Hodgson's team were weak, flaccid and unambitious all tournament and will continue to be so.

 

Penalty shoot outs are often considered a cruel way to leave a tournament. But with the exceptional Germans lying in wait for England in the next round, perhaps their elimination was the most humane way of sending England home. If the Italians were able to strip England bare and embarrass them to such an extent then God only knows what Schweinsteiger, Ozil et al would have done to them. Until England wakes up and realises that Roy Hodgson is little more than a chancer, this county's footballing failures will only be added to. England were awful at Euro 2012 and no amount of media spin from Roy or his fans should convince you otherwise.

[fowler9]

Got exactly what he deserved. Fucking woeful from start to finish regardless of what anyone says. One Man & His Blog: Italy finally expose Hodgson

 

 

For once in this tournament an English television pundit summed it all up perfectly. On ITV's England v Italy highlights show Jamie Carragher said what everyone should have been saying the moment that Roy Hodgson was given the England job. To paraphrase the Liverpool defender, Carragher, strangely passionate for once regarding all things England, said 'we talk about getting kids to play more like Spain in this country, to keep the ball and pass but who is the manager of the England first team? Roy Hodgson, who plays with two banks of four and doesn't play with a passing style'. Nail. Head.

 

As damning statistics flashed up on the screen regarding possession (Roy doesn't believe in that, remember?), shots on target, passes made etc against Italy, the massacre that Andrea Pirlo and his co conspirators had inflicted on England over a tortuous two hours was hammered home. Carragher again led the way in sensible rhetoric. 'This Italy team isn't a great Italy team and they've played us off the park tonight. Those stats are what you would expect from a Championship side when they play against a Premier League team'. I'd have changed only the end of Carragher's analysis. Those stats are what you would expect from a Roy Hodgson team against any quality opposition.

 

For two weeks Hodgson had got the nation on his side. I don't know how he did it, but he did. He convinced a country boasting one of the strongest squads at this tournament that qualifying from a group containing Sweden and Ukraine was 'exceeding expectations'. I often felt like the world had turned upside down as people blindly refused to acknowledge my assertion that Roy Hodgson was not taking English football forwards, but backwards. 'Ignore the fact we've had the least possession and shots on target of any team in the competition, we're winning, we're playing with spirit and heart' was the much heard retort. I'm sorry, but blocking shots left, right and centre and conceding ground to the likes Ukraine doesn't represent progress for English football. Neither does a rigid 442 system with two banks of four camped on the edge of your own area for two thirds of each match regardless of the opposition. As someone who suffered through a Roy Hodgson led team with my club side Liverpool, all of this was familiar to me and the notion that the ends justified the means regarding England's ugly approach infuriated me as history had already shown me that his failings will eventually come to the fore when luck deserts him. And boy were those failings shown up against Italy. The make up and fake tan were removed by the Italians and suddenly England looked decidedly hideous in the unforgiving light of day. Try as he might, Hodgson can't fool all of the people all of the time with his approach.

 

As England topped their group and Roy was lauded to high heaven by fans and pressmen alike, Liverpool supporters like myself were criticised as we had apparently not given Hodgson enough support or time at Anfield. Rubbish. He was hounded out of Merseyside for his woeful football and rigid tactics. He turned a Liverpool team containing talent like Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Kuyt, Maxi, Johnson, Agger and Lucas into a team that were fighting relegation and playing like West Brom or Stoke on a weekly basis. It was Hodgson's way, it remains Hodgson's way and it will continue to be Hodgson's way. That is why he will drag English football to lower recesses than we've seen for years.

 

If Fabio Capello had produced football as sterile as what Hodgson has served up during Euro 2012 then he'd have been a national pariah. This England team boasts world class players in every department. Hart, Cole, Gerrard and Rooney would walk into most sides in world football. They are surrounded by players who have won Premier League titles and have a wealth of Champions League experience. They are not the no-hopers that they are often made out to be. Nor did they come up against the likes of Spain or Germany which is when Hodgson's approach would perhaps have been acceptable or at least, understandable. Playing negatively against sides that are clearly much better than you (as Spain and Germany undoubtedly are) is one thing. Doing it against teams who don't have one player who would be good enough to make your squad is another matter entirely.

 

It is so blindingly obvious that Hodgson won't improve England going forward in any way what so ever. His tactical set up has never deviated from it's current archaic incarnation. It is Chelsea in Europe last season. It is Greece in Euro 2004. It is underdog football that rarely prevails and offers no sustainable model going forward. It relies solely on keeping it tight, working hard and hoping for a bit of luck. When that luck runs out however, what are you left with? What crumbs of comfort did Euro 2012 offer for England? Have they shown any positive attacking play? Have they shown they can beat big sides or even live with them in terms of possession or quality on the ball? Have they laid any foundations for the future regarding their footballing philosophy? No. But apparently that is irrelevant to most when you are somehow squeezing out lucky victories against the might of Ukraine.

 

The most perplexing offering from the press and supporters of England this summer has been the myth regarding England's much lauded bravery. This is astonishing and could not be further from the truth. It also highlights the lack of knowledge this country has when it comes to the beautiful game. Bravery in football is trying to keep the ball under pressure, attacking the opposition and doing so with style. It isn't kicking the ball up to your hulking number 9 in the hope that he can win a flick on. It isn't sitting 8 men in front of your goal. It isn't putting your faith in a lucky bounce going your way. England returned home after playing like cowards when they possessed a calibre of player that promised so much more regardless of what Roy Hodgson and his sympathisers say to the contrary. If you disagree then I'd ask you to answer this question: How many of the French players would you have swapped for England's when they faced each other in the first game? Three? Four? England had at least an equal (I'd argue more than equal) level of quality in their team that night and yet they simply retreated into their shells and let the French do what they wanted. Yes, Scott Parker blocked the ball, yes John Terry threw himself into tackles but that isn't bravery in a footballing sense. Bravery would have been trying to out play France and win the match, not merely surviving. Italy's performance against Spain was real footballing bravery. They attacked a far superior team at every opportunity, went toe to toe with the Spaniards for 90 minutes and could easily have beaten the world champions that day. Hodgson's team were weak, flaccid and unambitious all tournament and will continue to be so.

 

Penalty shoot outs are often considered a cruel way to leave a tournament. But with the exceptional Germans lying in wait for England in the next round, perhaps their elimination was the most humane way of sending England home. If the Italians were able to strip England bare and embarrass them to such an extent then God only knows what Schweinsteiger, Ozil et al would have done to them. Until England wakes up and realises that Roy Hodgson is little more than a chancer, this county's footballing failures will only be added to. England were awful at Euro 2012 and no amount of media spin from Roy or his fans should convince you otherwise.

 

just about the most correct thing I've ever read

[Captain]

Remember people wanting Roy, konchesky, Joe Cole and Poulsen and thinking we would challenge for the league. People actually wanted that!

 

Silly twats.

 

To be fair it was only the TARTs though with their 'Rafa will never win us the league'. Well, neither did the next two managers.

 

Anyone but Benitez was the mantra at the time.

[Gym Beglin]

England do have talent, but not on the level of Brazil, Argentina, Germany or Spain.

That said, it doesn't necessarily scan that we then have to lose those games.

 

Look at our run to the CL title in 2005, I guess we should have given up against Juventus? No, you get stuck in and you try to score a couple of goals. You defend together and you attack together, and you make the opposition pray for a bit of magic from one of their best players.

 

No, we don't have he luxury of an Ozil, Messi or Neymar, but apparently Wayne Rooney is in that bracket...

 

We have World Class players in other areas though, I regard Hart, Johnson, Cahill, Richards, and Cole as a much better back four than Germany have, maybe even Spain.

Of course Cahill was injured and Richards not selected, but just by way of example.

 

In the middle we could have had Wilshire, Gerrard and Lampard floating around in a 3, covering each other and taking it in turns to break.

 

And up front we had a player in Carroll who proved to be almost unplayable at times against the Italians. We didn't need to pair him with anyone, a 451 could have taken us a long way, we could even have played around with Rooney as a winger, and then prayed one of Walcott, chamberlain, Sturridge, or Adam Johnson had a good game once or twice in the tournament.

 

I just do not accept the arguement that the team cannot be tactically reshaped to make the most of what we have.

[Josef Svejk]

just about the most correct thing I've ever read

 

Indeed. Spot on.

[Gym Beglin]

I think there is talent coming through, its just that we would need to start from scratch with a different style of play, and Hodgson is clearly not the manager to do that.

 

Oxlade-Chamberlain is an 18 year old who has played 16 Prem games so far, but harsh to criticise him. But there are some good, young players coming through for us, Chelsea, Utd, Spurs and Arsenal. Its just they are just 6 to 8 years away from being competitive on the international stage.

 

You make it sound like its a natural progression for these 'good players' to make England play like Spain in 6 to 8 years?

 

I remember these same arguments 6 to 8 years ago, I honestly do.

 

If I wa given the choice, then I'd look at someone like Wenger, and give him the job for 8 years or something, unconditionally. With full control of the junior England teams.

We're a decade behind the likes of Spain.

We could produce five English Messi's and still not win anything.

[Guest TK-421]

The press should be tearing into Hodgson but having read the Guardian and Telegraph match reports it seems there's an agreement in place to give him an easy ride.

 

Instead of blaming Roy and his quite horrendous tactics they blame a lack of technique in general.

 

This has to be wrong. Why was Rooney being asked to keep an eye on Pirlo? It's so negative. The sight of Gerrard and Parker running themselves into the ground in such a futile manner was tragic.

 

Hodgson is mentioned twice by Henry Winter in the entire report, neither in a critical manner. Similarly, he escapes all criticism in the Guardian's write up.

 

I haven't checked the tabloids to see if they have superimposed a jar of Ragu on to Roy's forehead (pasta his best, anyone?). I get the feeling the tabloids went relatively easy on Roy, though.

 

What a great big joke team England is.

[Guest TK-421]

 

And up front we had a player in Carroll who proved to be almost unplayable at times against the Italians. We didn't need to pair him with anyone, a 451 could have taken us a long way, we could even have played around with Rooney as a winger, and then prayed one of Walcott, chamberlain, Sturridge, or Adam Johnson had a good game once or twice in the tournament.

 

I just do not accept the arguement that the team cannot be tactically reshaped to make the most of what we have.

 

I completely agree with the general point that England can be tactically reshaped to benefit them, and have the players to do so. Anyone on this message board could come up with a more imaginative formation and approach than old Roy.

 

As regards Lampard he was injured so a bit harsh to blame Roy there. He could however have picked Michael Carrick, okay he is not quite as good as Pirlo but the boy can play. Too flamboyant for Roy, though - he probably would have played him on the right or something daft.

[Trumo]

It's not Hodgson-specific but rather an English/British thing where spirit, bravery and tenacity are prized characteristics ahead of intelligence and ability. Think about the number of time our commentators and pundits wank themselves silly every time the likes of Terry or Parker make a desperate lunging block to keep out an opponent's shot. They are hailed as fully committed to the national cause and treated like heroes because of it.

 

Yes, sometimes a block like that is required, but in this country, if players are having to regularly demonstrate their commitment in this way, it provides a convenient excuse to ignore any factors that led to such an act of desperation in the first place. Namely, players being so positionally suspect that 2 banks of 4 provides a nice comfort blanket, and not being intelligent enough to read the play and nip the source of the problem in the bud in the first place.

[Guest TK-421]

I'm not having it that England are a bunch of tactically and technically inept cloggers whose only virtue is heart and last-ditch challenges.

 

Terry Venables and Bobby Robson showed that the England team could play with more flair and adventure.

[Captain]

At least Pearce decided Parker should be Captain.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Why is the turkey necked cunt protected so much? It's all very strange.

[piscinin]

I'm not having it that England are a bunch of tactically and technically inept cloggers whose only virtue is heart and last-ditch challenges.

 

Terry Venables and Bobby Robson showed that the England team could play with more flair and adventure.

 

The debate is becoming polarized. I'm not saying they're cloggers, I'm saying relative to their peers they're inferior in a way that can't be explained by happenstance or the instructions given for a particular game.

[Brownie]

That blog is absolutely spot on.

[Bernard Diomede]

The media aren't hammering Hodgson because they can still blame Capello. After all Roys only been in charge 2 minutes dont forget!

 

I said to me dad before the tournament started that Hodgson will get away with murder this tournament because every interview he did before it he reminded the country that he hadn't had long to apply his methods, and that expectations should be low because he was just getting to know the players.

 

Most of the national press lapped it up and swallowed his nonesense refusing to see the evidence in front of them. That will soon start to change when these performances continue through qualifying.

[Guest TK-421]

The debate is becoming polarized. I'm not saying they're cloggers, I'm saying relative to their peers they're inferior in a way that can't be explained by happenstance or the instructions given for a particular game.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson are better attacking full backs than those of Sweden, Ukraine, France and Italy, in my view, but they weren't allowed to show it.

 

Steven Gerrard is better utilised further forward. A base of Carrick and Parker would have given Gerrard much more freedom, and would have allowed the full backs to push on more. There were loads of things that could have been at least tried to get more out of the players.

 

England have good players but were in a tactical straight jacket. It could have been Messi and Ronaldo instead of Young and Milner and it would have gone the same way.

 

And yes, a good blog from the snez.

[Chocoholic]

 

 

For once in this tournament an English television pundit summed it all up perfectly. On ITV's England v Italy highlights show Jamie Carragher said what everyone should have been saying the moment that Roy Hodgson was given the England job. To paraphrase the Liverpool defender, Carragher, strangely passionate for once regarding all things England, said 'we talk about getting kids to play more like Spain in this country, to keep the ball and pass but who is the manager of the England first team? Roy Hodgson, who plays with two banks of four and doesn't play with a passing style'. Nail. Head.

 

 

Although there were no prizes for knowing this - the dogs on the street knew it as it's been known for time immemorial - Carragher, being the avid student of the game that he is, most certainly knew this before, and as Hodgson was being appointed, yet welcomed and lauded his appointment as Liverpool manager.

 

 

This is in no way taking anything from Carra and what he's done on the pitch. I don't want to derail this thread to an argument about Carra, but it is relevant on this thread as it's a vital part of the article it's quoted from.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Although there were no prizes for knowing this - the dogs on the street knew it as it's been known for time immemorial - Carragher' date=' being the avid student of the game that he is, most certainly knew this before, and as Hodgson was being appointed, [b']yet welcomed and lauded his appointment as Liverpool manager.

[/b]

 

This is in no way taking anything from Carra and what he's done on the pitch. I don't want to derail this thread to an argument about Carra, but it is relevant on this thread as it's a vital part of the article it's quoted from.

 

It is rather bizarre although this 'student of the game' is just words at this point. He likes football, we all do.

[piscinin]

I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson are better attacking full backs than those of Sweden, Ukraine, France and Italy, in my view, but they weren't allowed to show it.

 

Steven Gerrard is better utilised further forward. A base of Carrick and Parker would have given Gerrard much more freedom, and would have allowed the full backs to push on more. There were loads of things that could have been at least tried to get more out of the players.

 

England have good players but were in a tactical straighjacket. It could have been Messi and Ronaldo instead of Young and Milner and it would have gone the same way.

 

And yes, a good blog from the snez.

 

Don't disagree that the players were made to look worse than they are. And as I said before, yep you could setup the team a different way to minimize the shortcomings we saw this time, but you'd just end up showing up different issues. As we saw with Capello you can't tactic your way out of those short-comings.

 

And Ronaldo, Messi? Please, they would have run at their man, beat him and crossed or scored.

 

Anyways this all coming across a bit pro-hodgson when it's really meant more as a "they've got hodgson because they all deserve him".

[piscinin]

Although there were no prizes for knowing this - the dogs on the street knew it as it's been known for time immemorial - Carragher' date=' being the avid student of the game that he is, most certainly knew this before, and as Hodgson was being appointed, yet welcomed and lauded his appointment as Liverpool manager.

 

 

This is in no way taking anything from Carra and what he's done on the pitch. I don't want to derail this thread to an argument about Carra, but it is relevant on this thread as it's a vital part of the article it's quoted from.[/quote']

 

No player is going to criticize the appointment of his new boss in the press.

[Robinson]

I'm not having it that England are a bunch of tactically and technically inept cloggers whose only virtue is heart and last-ditch challenges.

 

Terry Venables and Bobby Robson showed that the England team could play with more flair and adventure.

 

The answers are there.Make Parker man mark the 35 year old Pirlo;thus utilising Parkers strengths,and let Plain Wayne drop off the way he so sucessfully does for the Mancs.

We would have still been lacking,but at least one would have been able to see that we have a tactician at the helm, and not some cranky old brit whose poorly version of catenaccio even had the Italians giggle.

 

How the revered likes of Henry Winter,who lead the crusade against Cappello`s 4-4-2,can proclaim at bright future is beyond me.........we are Greece,fucking Greece:Greece without Spatra-amen.

[Gym Beglin]

It's not Hodgson-specific but rather an English/British thing where spirit, bravery and tenacity are prized characteristics ahead of intelligence and ability. Think about the number of time our commentators and pundits wank themselves silly every time the likes of Terry or Parker make a desperate lunging block to keep out an opponent's shot. They are hailed as fully committed to the national cause and treated like heroes because of it.

 

Yes, sometimes a block like that is required, but in this country, if players are having to regularly demonstrate their commitment in this way, it provides a convenient excuse to ignore any factors that led to such an act of desperation in the first place. Namely, players being so positionally suspect that 2 banks of 4 provides a nice comfort blanket, and not being intelligent enough to read the play and nip the source of the problem in the bud in the first place.

 

That's also the case with Carragher for us, so I'd be careful what you wish for in terms of drawing too mch attention to that 'skill'.

 

The thing is. 'Intelligence' is not a virtue I've ever heard players being praised for at amateur or school level.

A player might influence the game brilliantly without ever touching the ball for ten minutes. Bt you've got to understand the game to see what he's doing and why he's doing it, and that's where the coaches come in, a lot of British managers don't seem to value the art of a player making space for others and seeing danger before it happens, they are just deemed to be having a quiet game.

[Guest TK-421]

Don't disagree that the players were made to look worse than they are. And as I said before, yep you could setup the team a different way to minimize the shortcomings we saw this time, but you'd just end up showing up different issues. As we saw with Capello you can't tactic your way out of those short-comings.

 

And Ronaldo, Messi? Please, they would have run at their man, beat him and crossed or scored.

 

Anyways this all coming across a bit pro-hodgson when it's really meant more as a "they've got hodgson because they all deserve him".

 

Well no system is perfect but they could at least have had a go. One shot in target from Johson at the start and then fatty's attempted bicycle kick at the end - that was it. Pathetic.

 

I almost felt sorry for Young and Milner, especially Milner. He wasn't allowed to do anything and then got hooked. Not his fault, he did what his manager told him to do.

 

Capello had way more to him than Hodgson in my opinion. He messed up in 2010 but was solid in qualifying. Roy will be a mess. There's no way the players will stand for this crap.

[TheHitman]

There's no way the players will stand for this crap.

 

My moneys on Rooney kicking off first.

[Guest TK-421]

Him and JT.