Rise of the far right in Europe.

[TheHowieLama]

The Third Wing.

[Jairzinho]

The unlucky part of the horseshoe.

[A Red]

I dont get this really, the hard left were on the right of europe and the hard right on the left

[s(k)aturation]

I dont get this really, the hard left were on the right of europe and the hard right on the left

 

As long as it ended in Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right etc... then Bang Bang... is all that matters.

[Sugar Ape]

Well this thread has suddenly become difficult to masturbate to.

 

Luckily I like a challenge.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont get this really, the hard left were on the right of europe and the hard right on the left

The extremes of left and right form the edges of the circle,or horseshoe as somebody very eloquently put it.

[Strontium]

People that are right wing tend to be better at barbecues, in my experience.

 

The hammer and sickle makes a right fucking mess of the sausages.

[Strontium]

describing the Soviets as 'left wing' when they fit the right wing description has always seemed strange to me.

 

:blink:

[VladimirIlyich]

:blink:

Why the astonishment,or is it related to my avatar and you believing I thought the Soviet Union was heaven on earth?

 

*Using smilies totally confuses me as I have no idea as to what most of them mean.

 

If you were having a joke,the smiley has thrown me.

[General Dryness]

We tend not to use them round here, on account of this not being fucking facebook.

[s(k)aturation]

Why the astonishment,or is it related to my avatar and you believing I thought the Soviet Union was heaven on earth?

 

*Using smilies totally confuses me as I have no idea as to what most of them mean.

 

If you were having a joke,the smiley has thrown me.

 

Yes, I think SD might have inferred a Right slight.

[VladimirIlyich]

Yes, I think SD might have inferred a Right slight.

I shall give him the benefit of the doubt,but smileys might not be forgiven by others.

[s(k)aturation]

I shall give him the benefit of the doubt,but smileys might not be forgiven by others.

 

Smiling of any sort is frowned upon.  Particularly in E Europe.

[SasaS]

Žižek's famous brief definition of difference between Fascism and Stalinism, as in far right and far left (sort of)

[s(k)aturation]

Basically, it's nasty wrong shit being perpetrated by an elite clique, happening at both ends of a scale, with lots of people in between isn't it?

 

The differences when it comes to humanitarianism, evidentially, seem pretty semantic.

[Sugar Ape]

Anyway, back on track. It seems Germany are still receiving 3000 refugees/migrants a day even in winter and are starting to return some back to Austria and the Swiss have joined Denmark as seen in the article below. The family reunification bit is interesting. I was reading that once granted asylum in Germany they could bring over 4/5 family members each. With a million reaching there last year and more forecast this year you wonder how long one country can deal with it without help from others, which doesn't seem to be coming.

 

http://gu.com/p/4fznc?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Switzerland joins Denmark in seizing assets from refugees to cover costs

 

Information sheet given to Syrian refugee shows seizure of assets over a limit of 1,000 Swiss francs, says Swiss news programme

 

Refugees arriving in Switzerland have to turn over to the state any assets worth more than 1,000 Swiss francs (£690) to help pay for their upkeep, broadcaster SRF reported on Thursday, revealing a practice that has drawn sharp rebukes for Denmark.

 

SRF’s 10 vor 10 news programme showed a receipt a refugee from Syria said he received from authorities when he had to turn over more than half of the cash his family had left after paying traffickers to help them get to the neutral Alpine country.

 

It also showed an information sheet for refugees that stated: “If you have property worth more than 1,000 Swiss francs when you arrive at a reception centre you are required to give up these financial assets in return for a receipt.”

 

SRF cited the state migration authority SEM as justifying the measure, noting the law called for asylum seekers and refugees to contribute where possible to the cost of processing their applications and providing social assistance.

 

An SEM spokeswoman told SRF: “If someone leaves voluntarily within seven months this person can get the money back and take it with them. Otherwise the money covers costs they generate.”

 

In addition, refugees who win the right to stay and work in Switzerland have to surrender 10% of their pay for up to 10 years until they repay 15,000 Swiss francs in costs, according to the report.

 

Denmark is amending a proposal to confiscate refugees’ possessions to pay for their stay. It plans to raise the amount they will be allowed to keep after coming under fire from the United Nations refugee agency.

 

Several organisations, including the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, have censured the Nordic country for the proposal, as well as for others that would delay family reunification and make acquiring refugee and residence status more difficult.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Anyway, back on track. It seems Germany are still receiving 3000 refugees/migrants a day even in winter and are starting to return some back to Austria and the Swiss have joined Denmark as seen in the article below. The family reunification bit is interesting. I was reading that once granted asylum in Germany they could bring over 4/5 family members each. With a million reaching there last year and more forecast this year you wonder how long one country can deal with it without help from others, which doesn't seem to be coming.

 

 

Not sure where you are getting your information from mate but they obviously don't know the German system/law on this subject or blatantly leave such information out.

 

Not all of those people will be given refugee status, once checks are done a certain % will be rejected. 

 

There are different categories depending on circumstances for those who are allowed to stay. If they pass the checks in accordance with the Geneva convention or the German ground rules then they are given a 3 year permit of residence. This does not mean they have German nationality or they can bring family members over, it just means they are allowed to live here for three years where they are helped with courses etc and have to prove they are willing to integrate. 

 

If they are classed as so called second degree refugees then they only get a years residency pass which can be extended for a further 2 years depending on the individuals situation. 

 

After the 3 years has passed they are then given the right to stay in Germany and work full time or claim benefits like every other national, they still can't apply for German nationality. They can only apply for this after 8 years and in doing so have to give up their own nationality. How many would want to do that? Especially as 8 years is a long time and things change on their home front. Only when and if they decide to take German nationality and pass the tests which this involves could they attempt to bring family members over, even then it is not as simple as some would think. 

[Sugar Ape]

Mainly stuff from the Guardian/Independent but I've seen links to other websites about immigration rules in Europe.

 

Goes without saying they won't all be granted leave to stay, but as in the case above of Denmark it seems more nations are trying to make it more difficult to move any family members over with them.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Mainly stuff from the Guardian/Independent but I've seen links to other websites about immigration rules in Europe.

 

Goes without saying they won't all be granted leave to stay, but as in the case above of Denmark it seems more nations are trying to make it more difficult to move any family members over with them.

 

I went through German law as it stands mate, they haven't changed it as of yet in regards to refugee's/Migrants and it takes 8 years before they can apply for German nationality and in doing so it is still not guaranteed and bringing further family members over is still a minefield of checks/paperwork etc.

 

This whole thing about them bringing over family members is sensationalism from certain sectors of the press to spread panic, they aren't lying but are twisting things around to suit their fear propaganda. Most dummies will be shit scared thinking that in a few months or a years time the EC will be flooded with family members of Refugees/Migrants. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

One other thing.

 

After the 8 years and they finally get their German nationality (if they want it and all tests etc have been fulfilled) any family member coming over has to go through the same process. This means it could be a further 3 years before they can actually live in the same village/town or city as they would start off in special areas to go through the initial 3 years of integration.  

[Sugar Ape]

I went through German law as it stands mate, they haven't changed it as of yet in regards to refugee's/Migrants and it takes 8 years before they can apply for German nationality and in doing so it is still not guaranteed and bringing further family members over is still a minefield of checks/paperwork etc.

 

This whole thing about them bringing over family members is sensationalism from certain sectors of the press to spread panic, they aren't lying but are twisting things around to suit their fear propaganda. Most dummies will be shit scared thinking that in a few months or a years time the EC will be flooded with family members of Refugees/Migrants.

I don't know mate, nothing I've read has said they're going to bring family members over imminently, rather they will have the right to once granted asylum/nationality but I think more countries are going to follow Denmark and not grant that right to dissuade people from coming. Same with the Swiss and Danes confiscating money. They clearly don't need the small amounts most refugees will have it's just a way of discouraging them to go there.

 

Where do you see this going with Germany? I honestly think Merkel has fucked things up beyond repair. IMO the best way to do things is to take people from the camps in Turkey and other countries bordering Syria, especially as the most needy will be there as they can't travel. They'll be forgotten about though as the focus is on the refugees coming here directly.

[Sugar Ape]

Found the European study I was looking at the other day. It seems to be easier for the 'nuclear' family, kids, spouse etc...

 

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/networks/european_migration_network/reports/docs/emn-studies/family-reunification/2._de_emn_ncp_small-scale_study_iv_family_reunification_final_en_version_en.pdf

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I don't know mate, nothing I've read has said they're going to bring family members over imminently, rather they will have the right to once granted asylum/nationality but I think more countries are going to follow Denmark and not grant that right to dissuade people from coming. Same with the Swiss and Danes confiscating money. They clearly don't need the small amounts most refugees will have it's just a way of discouraging them to go there.

 

Where do you see this going with Germany? I honestly think Merkel has fucked things up beyond repair. IMO the best way to do things is to take people from the camps in Turkey and other countries bordering Syria, especially as the most needy will be there as they can't travel. They'll be forgotten about though as the focus is on the refugees coming here directly.

 

Things will soon settle down, I dare say we'll hardly hear in the press of the vast numbers being rejected or going back once hostilities in Syria settle down. Once they realise that the German law (as I have mentioned above) means they can't work or earn a wage for 3 years, have to do courses to learn German etc etc, are being held in camped areas etc etc...can't get German nationality or bring family over for 8 years.

 

The German government also passed a bill yesterday that a special personal ID will be made for Refugees/Migrants which they will have to carry at all times, any serious misdemeanour's will end up in expulsion. If they are stopped for checks and do not have the ID on them then once again it will have repercussions. 

 

The majority of people over here are happy enough with how things are being dealt with but realise that it could have been handed better to begin with. The right wing are getting louder but that is to be expected in such circumstances as they thrive on fear etc, they are still in a massive minority though. 

 

Having said all that, it would/could only take a Paris style attack to change a lot of people's minds and for shit to hit the fan.

 

Not everyone realises that such an attack is possible regardless of the influx of Refugee's/Migrants. The terrorist cells have long been established over here in Europe and are just sleeping until they get the financial backing and equipment to try an attack. A lot of these attacks or their plans are hindered by the Government and security forces/agencies, but some will not be picked up due to certain circumstances or maybe just down to political reasons. 

 

Personally. I'm not arsed or frightened. I live my life as I always have and if I have to pop my clogs then so be it. As long as they don't ravish my poop before killing me. 

[Sugar Ape]

A lot of it is down to perception. If there is a Paris style attack in Germany it won't really matter if they are refugees or European born it'll be just be ' Muslims ' who did it and the hysteria will rise to block any more coming over.

[VladimirIlyich]

Basically, it's nasty wrong shit being perpetrated by an elite clique, happening at both ends of a scale, with lots of people in between isn't it?

 

The differences when it comes to humanitarianism, evidentially, seem pretty semantic.

As good an explanation of it as I have possibly heard.

 

The illusion of 'Power to the People.'