No more British players

[PaulMcC]

To be fair Paul, the opening post in this thread and their following posts were much less rational than what you've put there.

 

I'm not just talking about this thread.

 

I don't think there's a Liverpool fan who doesn't love Kenny and trust him, but it's ok to make your own judgement on players. Some people don't think certain players are worth it in comparison to other players.

 

Do you not remember far more people giving out a lot more grief no matter what some people at the club done? (not talking about the owners here)

 

BTW I completely trust Kenny.

[Guest The Chimp]

Anyone daring to go against the general consensus is getting grief, though.

 

Anyone who looks at the money spent I would imagine has a certain degree of trepidation - I certainly have. I'm prepared to see how things transpire, however, before passing judgement because I trust Kenny. I didn't trust Hodgson's judgement and so was convinced Poulson and Konchesky would be about as good as they've been. That for me is the major difference. I think Kenny has done enough to warrant some trust. Of course, as I intimated, there are concerns, but I don't see the need to go all "woe is me" and "the end of the world is nigh" and certainly not by starting a thread on the subject.

[Jose Jones]

It was an awful post Jose, followed by other shit posts. Add to that the arrogant "you're far too stupid to understand ergo I can't be bothered to carry on talking to you" slant they took and quite righlty he's been pulled. You don't come on to a site and start spouting shite. You pay your dues and show some respect and at least try to not purposely upset the apple cart. As for not showing more intelligence - anything that anyone has posted that at least showed some reasoning is a massive improvement on what was served up.

 

The post was pretty much inferring Kenny didn't have a clue - and why shouldn't posters get fucked off with that? Plenty on here look on in disbelief at Chelsea. What do we want? The new owners to say to the manager, "nah you're not having your first choice there Kenny, have a look in Spain instead?"

 

I think the first post was a bit hysterically presented yeah, but the look at all the replies. 4 pages of people calling him a twat, a mong, a cunt and a whopper.

Someone of touchy intent is going to get a little narked by that shit. Plus once one person has taken the piss, why do another 57 feel the need to then join in?

 

Massive lack of imagination.

 

Where was the inference that Kenny doesn't have a clue?

This is the same shit that infested the Rafa debate. When any criticism or alternate view is met with a "do you think Kenny is an idiot?" etc.

 

I trust Kenny to get the team playing good football, give players confidence and do his best for the club and teh city.

I also think we have spent a hell of a lot of money without getting a single top class player for it.

[Guest The Chimp]

I'm not just talking about this thread.

 

I don't think there's a Liverpool fan who doesn't love Kenny and trust him, but it's ok to make your own judgement on players. Some people don't think certain players are worth it in comparison to other players.

 

Do you not remember far more people giving out a lot more grief no matter what some people at the club done? (not talking about the owners here)

 

BTW I completely trust Kenny.

 

There's absolutely nothing I'd disagree with their Paul. As for others giving grief out, as I've said in another thread I'm genuinely one of the least confrontational posters on here but the lack of perspective is seriously irksome. I can't condone others for being abusive or refusing to enage in debate. This thread wasn't - imo - set out to start debate buit simply to moan and slag off our entire summer signings thus far. It wasn't a case of debating a players merits, what they cna bring, if the price is a worry, it was simply England national team = shite, English players = shite, Scots = even worse = we're doomed.

[Guest The Chimp]

I think the first post was a bit hysterically presented yeah, but the look at all the replies. 4 pages of people calling him a twat, a mong, a cunt and a whopper.

Someone of touchy intent is going to get a little narked by that shit. Plus once one person has taken the piss, why do another 57 feel the need to then join in?

 

Massive lack of imagination.

 

Where was the inference that Kenny doesn't have a clue?

This is the same shit that infested the Rafa debate. When any criticism or alternate view is met with a "do you think Kenny is an idiot?" etc.

 

I trust Kenny to get the team playing good football, give players confidence and do his best for the club and teh city.

I also think we have spent a hell of a lot of money without getting a single top class player for it.

 

The OP was hardly a ringing endoresment of Kenny was it mate? It was as far from a reasoned, well-thought out analysis of Liverpool's current transfer policy that hasn't seen the first team even kick a ball in anger and that is in all likelihood not even finished yet, as you could possibly get. As for jumping on somone - it's not something I've ever done before, but even in hindsight I've no regrets about doing so here. The lock the thread you're too childish stuff probably set most people off, so again they've everything coming there. Again though, and as indicated in a post to Paul above, I'm definitely getting cranky and so being off here is probably for the best.

[mypost]

yep, it far cry from Alonso, Mascherano & Gerrard, i remember not so long ago singing "we've got the best midfield in the world".

 

 

Will you be the singing the same with Adam, Henderson & Downing?

 

I don't know tbh. But it's not long ago, we were attracting Mascherano, Torres, and Alonso to come and play here. Now we're attracting players with little more than "potential" from Blackpool and Sunderland instead. If it wasn't for the ownership change, you'd be forgiven for thinking we still have no money.

 

None of the players we've signed this summer are from clubs here or abroad, that were playing in Europe this season. If that doesn't concern you, well it should.

[dennis tooth]

At least they dont ban people and lock threads tho.

[RedinSweden]

I think the first post was a bit hysterically presented yeah, but the look at all the replies. 4 pages of people calling him a twat, a mong, a cunt and a whopper.

Someone of touchy intent is going to get a little narked by that shit. Plus once one person has taken the piss, why do another 57 feel the need to then join in?

 

Massive lack of imagination.

 

Where was the inference that Kenny doesn't have a clue?

This is the same shit that infested the Rafa debate. When any criticism or alternate view is met with a "do you think Kenny is an idiot?" etc.

 

I trust Kenny to get the team playing good football, give players confidence and do his best for the club and teh city.

I also think we have spent a hell of a lot of money without getting a single top class player for it.

 

Shut up Jones, you twatmongcuntwhopper.

[paulmacca10]

yep, it far cry from Alonso, Mascherano & Gerrard, i remember not so long ago singing "we've got the best midfield in the world".

 

 

Will you be the singing the same with Adam, Henderson & Downing?

 

Fair shout, but by looking back you'll only do your own head in comparing our players today with our best players from the past to see how far away we are. The only thing that matters is that these players are better than the ones they directly replace, and what I'm trying to say is that they are. I believe Downing and Adam are better than Maxi and Spearing (though I hope Spearing still gets games to see if he can improve further), Henderson I'm not sure of but I'll trust the manager on that one.

 

To be honest though, saying that these players 'fill you with dread' is a bit too far if you ask me. I'll ask again - what does a midfield group last year of Gerard, Kuyt, Cole, Jovanovic, Maxi, Lucas, Spearing, Poulsen fill you with?

[Redexile]

Chelsea have the likes of Malouda, Drogba, Torres and Lampard who can create goals out of moments of inspiration, Suarez and Gerrard are the only ones that can do that for us, I feel we need another 'match winner' in our team to take us to that next level and ensure we're really competitive on all fronts next year.

 

It's nothing to do with the thread topic though and probably best discussed in the Summer 2011 thread.

 

They certainly did when they played us at the bridge eh? Or when they played the bitters in the cup and the Mancs in the CL?

I don't get all this wailing and gnashing of teeth before a balls been kicked. As was put in the owners thread, we're a million miles from this time last season for me that can only be good.

[silverlining]

I think Sloan's po-faced snootiness deserved a bit of a shoeing.

 

As to his point, or what I think it is, I'm not at all arsed about nationality, it seems very odd to essentially say we should just buy foreign players. It's so retarded.

 

As for Downing, Henderson and Adam (and Carroll) I think it's very reasonable to be slightly trepidatious - even underwhelmed - about their quality, and I'd also admit that I probably wouldn't have bought any of them (certainly not as a priority; I'd have got a LB, a DM and a quick attacker and possibly another CM).

 

But Charlie Adam at £8m or whatever is good value; he was desperate to come and Kenny really wanted him, and I have very high hopes about his Liverpool career. Not even sure why.

 

And while Downing probably wasn't anyone's first choice (esp at £20m) he is a decent winger, and will certainly improve the side (and provide some meat and drink crosses for The Big Bearded Grock).

 

Henderson is the one I have least time for, but that's possibly because I haven't seen that much of him. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't think there's much there.

 

But it's surely gratifying that Kenny is being backed with cash to get the players he wants?

 

In summary, nationality is irrelevant. The quality of the squad and how they gel as a team is what is crucial. And we can't answer that until we see them play.

[PestiRed]

Agree totally with SL. Looking at Kenny's last classic team, the '88 squad, the nationalities are not those whose international teams were setting the world on fire. At individual level there are no more than a handful of players who would be judged as world-class in the history of the game. Kenny builds teams and the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts

[silverlining]

Agree totally with SL. Looking at Kenny's last classic team, the '88 squad, the nationalities are not those whose international teams were setting the world on fire. At individual level there are no more than a handful of players who would be judged as world-class in the history of the game. Kenny builds teams and the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts

 

Well, yeah, but I think you may be slightly downplaying the quality of that 88 team.

 

Beardsley, Barnes, Nicol, Aldo, Hansen and McMahon (oh for a young McMahon) would all walk into our team.

[Trumo]

Agree totally with SL. Looking at Kenny's last classic team, the '88 squad, the nationalities are not those whose international teams were setting the world on fire. At individual level there are no more than a handful of players who would be judged as world-class in the history of the game. Kenny builds teams and the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts

 

You have to bear in mind that at that time, British clubs signed very few overseas players in general. Also, due to being banned from playing in Europe that was even less likely to be the case. That's not to take away from the sheer quality of the players in Kenny's 1988 squad.

[PestiRed]

As much as I love that team, reality is that most of the players will not be remembered outside Liverpool but the team as a unit will be. Truly world-class in that squad were

Beardsley

Barnes -although pretty lazy, tended to turn it on for 10 mins during which he'd do something to win the match

Dalglish - didn't play himself that much

Hansen - although starting to struggle with the cumulative effects of injury

[Jonny83]

Maybe the OP didn't put it in the best way possible, but I did mention on the MF a few weeks back, there's nothing wrong with people debating the merits of signing largely British players at a time when our national team(s) are shown to be substandard at pretty much all age groups. When it comes to England there's only so much you can blame Shteve McClaren, Stuart Pearce and the in-fighting and egos of the so-called "golden generation" for. Hell even Fabio Capello (who would outdo most in a show-your-medals dick waving contest) can't get them looking like challenging for anything, and the much derided (at the time) Sven's quarter final specialists are now looked back on with a tinge of you-don't-know-what-you've-got-till-it's-gone nostalgia by some England fans.

 

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned (although I have skimmed through the thread) is the academy. If we are to have a British core in the future I'd prefer it to come from our academy, rather than handing huge amounts of cash to our domestic rivals. We've already got a collection of very exciting youngsters in there, some of who have shown well for the first team already, and all bar Suso (off the top of my head) are from these shores. Having said that if you take this to it's extreme you could end up with a Zidanes y Pavones situation, so I'm probably just talking partial bollocks there.

 

Still, I actually think it does Kenny a disservice to suggest he's so narrow minded to ONLY go for English/British players. Some might put the Suarez thing down to Comolli, but they are probably wrong since it's been said by a few people that he was on Kenny's radar back when he started working for Rafa. I'm sure if Kenny (or Comolli or any of the scouts) identified a player abroad who Kenny thought could fit into how he wanted to play, he'd have us in for him.

 

And yeah, if Hodgson had made these signings this place would have exploded, but unlike Roy, Kenny knows how to get a team playing football, and will have signed these players with an idea in mind, rather than getting a team of journeymen to play two banks of four hoofball. And while saying Kenny has earned our trust and knows better than us may be starting to sound like a bit of a cliche, that's only because it's true.

 

Also, like it or not we are not a CL team and may not have the pull we once had internationally, we are currently the 6th best team in England and history and name or not, by and large (with one or two exceptions like Suarez), the players we can attract will reflect that.

 

The acid test for me though, is that for the first time in three years, I'm looking forward to the coming season with optimism. Cautious optimism maybe, but compared to two years ago when I was looking forward to the season with concern (post Xabi), and 12 months ago with complete and utter fucking dread.

[Il Fenomeno]

They certainly did when they played us at the bridge eh? Or when they played the bitters in the cup and the Mancs in the CL?

I don't get all this wailing and gnashing of teeth before a balls been kicked. As was put in the owners thread, we're a million miles from this time last season for me that can only be good.

 

Very few teams win EVERY game in the season, they're obviously going to go through blips and get poor results somewhere down the line, but to take those couple of games and use it as some sort of proof that Chelsea don't have more match winners than us is ridiculous.

 

By the way, where have I been "wailing"? If you really think that saying our squad still needs to be strengthened is wailing then you're a bigger imbecile than I thought.

[silverlining]

As much as I love that team, reality is that most of the players will not be remembered outside Liverpool but the team as a unit will be. Truly world-class in that squad were

Beardsley

Barnes -although pretty lazy, tended to turn it on for 10 mins during which he'd do something to win the match

Dalglish - didn't play himself that much

Hansen - although starting to struggle with the cumulative effects of injury

 

Barnes was fucking UNPLAYABLE all season

[DaveT]

Agree totally with SL. Looking at Kenny's last classic team, the '88 squad, the nationalities are not those whose international teams were setting the world on fire. At individual level there are no more than a handful of players who would be judged as world-class in the history of the game. Kenny builds teams and the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts

 

Like many on here, I'm slightly underwhelmed by our acquisitions, especially at the prices we've paid. However, in support of the last line of PestiRed's comment, I comfort myself with the make-up of the Blackburn team which won the Prem back in '95, where only Shearer was a stand-out name (although, I guess Le saux was an England international). The team that lost 2-1 at Anfield on the day they lifted the trophy was - Flowers - Jeff Kenna(!) - Colin Hendry - Henning Berg - Le Saux - Ian Pearce - Stuart Ripley - Batty - Sherwood - Shearer - Sutton. The United team they beat to the title included the likes of Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, the Sniveller, Roy Keane, Ince, Andy Cole (these all played at West Ham on that same day, when Mark Hughes and Scholes were on the bench).

 

Downing (and probably Henderson in time) fits the mould of those Blackburn players - quietly effective, know what you're going to get on a consistent basis, good team player. Throw into the mix the unpredictability and trickery of Suarez, a fully-fit Gerrard to come back, a match fit Carroll and there's plenty to look forward to this season. Can't wait.

[silverlining]

 

The acid test for me though, is that for the first time in three years, I'm looking forward to the coming season with optimism. Cautious optimism maybe, but compared to two years ago when I was looking forward to the season with concern (post Xabi), and 12 months ago with complete and utter fucking dread.

 

 

Yeah, post-Xabi I was worried about a Lucas- Masher midfield. Quite correctly. Although I had no real idea how bad it would be.

 

And while most of us would rather pretend Woy had never happened, this time last year we were in a position wherby it was obvious we were coming to our end as a big club who could win trophies.

 

It's night and day, and while I do have a tendency to osciallte between optimism and the very blackest despair and pessismism (occasionally for comic effect, but anyway), at the momenet I am very much looking forward to the season.

 

No, I'm not ecstatically happy with the players we have bought. But at least we've bought some!

[PestiRed]

Barnes was fucking UNPLAYABLE all season

 

My memories of Barnes were that he would sometimes go missing but when he was involved he was easily the best player in the world. Admittedly this might be because I was pretty young at the time and naively expected him to beat every player & score whenever he received the ball

[Zizou]

Hey! Why do you assume he is some kid? He could be old and this demented no? I'm only 20 but i can see this guy is a complete dick :yes:

 

On a more positive note, slightly excited for this season. Agreed completely with the idea of building a league winning or CL qualifying team this summer to attract european talent in the near future. Kenny knows his stuff.

[Jonny83]

Another thing, despite my slight reservations above, if it's a choice between the manager (and I mean ANY good manager here, nothing to do with the "Kenny knows best" trump card) getting his chosen stated targets, no questions asked, or a Director of Football vetoing and bringing in players from all over the place without any thought to how the manager will or will not use them (and Comolli to his credit doesn't look like doing that), I know what I'd prefer.

[Gym Beglin]

The fortunes of the national sides in Britain have very little to do with the quality of players we have had.

 

Greece won Euro 2004, Denmark won Euro 1992, South Korea, Croatia and Sweden have also got to World Cup Semi-Finals recently.

There's no reason an England team featuring players of sublime quality like Gerrard, Scholes, Beckham, Rooney, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell, Alan Shearer, Steve McManaman, Scott Parker, Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Jamie Redknapp, John Terry, Ashley Cole, have failed to deliver for England over the past 10 years. No technical reason anyway.

 

Tactically, we are fucking inept.

 

Technically, there isn't much difference between a Gerrard and a Zidane, or a Carragher and an Ayala, or a Carroll and a Vieri. You don't get many players technically better than Adam, or Joe Cole.

 

It's about mentality, tactics, and management. We have terrific facilities in England, we have a population of 60m, and football is the national sport. I refuse to believe we cannot produce World Class players here on a par with less populous, less wealthy nations, such as Uruguay, who have 4m inhabitants.

Why did the Jocks have such a decent national team in the late 70's and early 80's? It's not all about Kenny's ability, it's about self-belief and work ethic. System's that are decorated with unique players, not based on them, not based on Torres bailing us out after playing shite for 89 minutes, but based on Torres playing in a way that raises everybody else's game. Sure, he'd score less, but overall we'd win more games.

I can't see a lot of differnce between Aquilani and Henderson. The person who can see it the least is probably Henderson and the knuckle-dragging wankers we call managers in the top flight of this division, the likes of Allardyce and Bruce who strive towards the glory of buying prestigious foreigners in some desperate attempt to get noticed on the continent.

 

I despair because the likes of O Hara, Huddlestone, Curtis Davies, Stephen Ireland, Nigel Reo Coker, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Steve Sidwell, James McFadden, David Dunn, Keith Andrews, James Vaughan, Robbie Blake, Matt Taylor, Seamus Coleman, Leon Osman, Danny Murphy, James Milner, Gareth Barry, Joey Barton could and should have become much better players, they had the raw talent and technique to have pushed on and been very good players. But they've been trapped in teams that play the English way, under managers that don't care about style, just results.

I'm not saying that these players would be World beaters, but they have definitely suffered from stunted development in this league because we just don't care about developing players once they get over the age of 18. They're just thrown into the first team and expected to develop.

[silverlining]

 

I despair because the likes of O Hara, Huddlestone, Curtis Davies, Stephen Ireland, Nigel Reo Coker, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Steve Sidwell, James McFadden, David Dunn, Keith Andrews, James Vaughan, Robbie Blake, Matt Taylor, Seamus Coleman, Leon Osman, Danny Murphy, James Milner, Gareth Barry, Joey Barton could and should have become much better players, they had the raw talent and technique to have pushed on and been very good players.

 

 

I've often looked at Gareth Barry and thought that he could have been the next Zinedine Zidane. It's only tactics and coaching that have robbed him of his true destiny, and nothing to do with the fact that he's a fucking clod-hopper who can't run.

 

I have some sympathy for your general point, but then you fucking ruin it by listing that lot.