In defence of Roy.......

[Hermes]

I'm not going to try and defend the indefensible; he has to go and quickly.

 

But I was embarrassed on Wednesday with the "Hodgson for England" and "Dalglish" chants and cheering of Konch's substitution.

 

We are bigger than this aren't we?

 

We were, not now.

[cracker]

Has at various points of his LFC career talked up the qualities of the 2 biggest LFC legends ever - Shanks and Kenny.

 

In the summer managed to persuade Torres to stay and Cole to join - but since then it is questionable whether this is something to thank him for given their performances since.

 

I'll be honest - I felt that those who were against him from the start were well out of order and up till recently I was still prepared to defend him a bit and say 'give him a bit more time' - but not any more after recent performances culminating in this week. I admit now that those who said at the start that he was not up to the job were right.

 

The thing is tho - why can't he just say as little as poss at a press conference and go home? I hate the way he feels the need to go on and on waffling at press conferences and inevitably the more he says the more likely he is to say something stupid which people will pick up on.

[navbasi]

The face rub... That's about it!

[RED.DUB]

I'm not going to try and defend the indefensible; he has to go and quickly.

 

But I was embarrassed on Wednesday with the "Hodgson for England" and "Dalglish" chants and cheering of Konch's substitution.

 

We are bigger than this aren't we?

That's a myth mate.

I can't say for certain but I doubt our support has ever sat in silence when something needed saying.

Saying that's not us,that's them is snooty as fuck tbh,this is how fed up fans behave,and are entitled to behave when things reach a certain point.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

he cleared all the mice out of our garage. And he knows how to wear a blazer

[caracaracara]

Has at various points of his LFC career talked up the qualities of the 2 biggest LFC legends ever - Shanks and Kenny.

 

In the summer managed to persuade Torres to stay and Cole to join - but since then it is questionable whether this is something to thank him for given their performances since.

 

 

This was fine for us to believe when everything was going well but as soon as Cole couldn't get his form back after injury he distanced himself from his acquisition. Again, not his responsbility.

[dlfc]

I think he's proved that while the principle of football never changes the game is completely different to what it was 30 odd years ago when he first started coaching.

 

A rigid 442 is easily beaten by a 5 man midfield, we seen it only the other night against wolves. Even Ferguson realised years ago when united were hammered by ronaldo and madrid that he had to change his system.

 

The difference between rafa or any relatively successful modern coach and hodgson are like the differences between science and religion. Science is everchanging while religion remains the same.

 

I'm not having another go at him, I just think is footballing philosophy is too basic to be successful. You only have to take a look at reina and torres, they look like they're being coached kids stuff these days.

 

There's a complete lack of innovation and a reluctance to adapt. That's not to say that 30+ year philosophies are redundant because all fans would love to see their team play the dutch brand of total football from the 70's but few will ever achieve it. We are privileged to see a new brand of total football from Barcelona at the moment. I don't think anyone would ever say Roy Hodgsons teams have played total football or anything like it.

 

Remember that Roy was the manager of the year last season and was widely regarded as the best english manager about. After 12 years of a french and spanish manager a lot of people (some players included) thought the time was rght for an english manager to come in to "steady the ship" but also because they thought he would have a better idea of how to win the premier league as well as respecting the history of the club and the fans. This has really back fired though because tactically we look inept, he has bowed down to fergie and united over dive claims against torres and refused to rule out torres going to them and now he's had a go at the fans.

 

Basically, Roy has so far proved to the fans who didn't want him here the first place that, just like the Blackburn job, this post was too big for him. In his defence, how could he turn down the opportunity to manage the greatest team in the world? He's addicted to football and being the best he can be but he's completely out of his depth at a club of theis size. He doesn't have the coaching ability, charisma or the social intelligence to be manager of Liverpool.

 

I'd agree with most of this but I think you've left out one of the most important reasons for our poor performances.

 

No matter what formation you adopt, whether it is considered "old hat" or not, your players have to understand what you want and do their part.

 

That for me is biggest failing of Roy. He seems unable to either get the players understanding what they have to do or play with some fucking PASSION and self-belief.

 

What we've seen this season is a side in disarray, a side lacking in confidence. We know these players are better than that. Roy knows his players are better than that but seems unable to get them to show it. Against Stoke we saw the Stoke players give everything, chase everything, never shirk a tackle and what did we do in response? Pretty much nothing. There looked to be no heart in the side. We need leadership on the field and we damn well need leadership off it.

 

What do we thank Roy for? We could thank him for giving us a reality check and that we have no God-given right to be a top four side. We could thank him showing us how poor some of our players can be.

 

In the end, I'd thank him for leaving.

[MLB]

We were, not now.

 

 

We've never been in this situation in any of our lifetimes though, have we? Maybe we would have seen this before if we had been. Who is to say? We have a well-earned reputation for tolerance, but that's always much easier in the good times. When we have underperformed in the past it has never been to this degree, and the man in charge has always had the respect/admiration of the fans. Souness wasn't a popular manager, but who was going to treat him like that after the service he had given the club? Same with Roy Evans.

 

While I agree with you that it's far from ideal, I think it's a bit too easy to just suggest that it's a "modern fan" phnomenon.

[Guest TK-421]

I can't think of anything. The football has been about as bad as I expected. His handling of the media and players has been worse than I could have ever imagined, and I can imagine quite a lot.

[dennis tooth]

No matter what formation you adopt, whether it is considered "old hat" or not, your players have to understand what you want and do their part.

 

That for me is biggest failing of Roy. He seems unable to either get the players understanding what they have to do or play with some fucking PASSION and self-belief.

 

This is another reason why Roy was always going to fail. He has rarely had a set of players of such talent at the top level. He knows how to do the basics but he's been doing the basics for 35 years. In terms of what to tell a top player what they need to do in a match he hasn't got the foggiest, thats why he struggles and rubs his face with nerves on the touchline and his second option is to shout at them.

[RedBrian84]

He's done pretty much the exact opposite of what a Liverpool manager should do, on virtually every occasion.

 

His tactics scream old fashioned, outdated negativity. He clearly has not done his homework about our club, about our fans and what it means to manage us. The Ferguson point was a good example of this- a Liverpool manager comes out and either a) says 'I prefer to talk about my team' or b) says 'We're Liverpool, they're United, there is no love lost and I know which side of the line in the sand that I'm standing on'. But he dithered and almost APOLOGISED to 'his good friend' Ferguson for taking the LFC job.

 

Elsewhere, his press conferences have been on a sliding scale from diabolical to plain negative.

 

In terms of the young lads- Shelvey, Speo, Kelly, Eccleston- fair play, he's tried them out and that can only be good for them. But he has made some pretty poor comments about Shelvey in particular that couldn't have helped the lad's confidence.

 

Not once has he even come close to saying "We're Liverpool Football Club, and while we aren't at the summit just now, we damn well will be when I'm done". Obviously this won't ever happen but that's not the point. Not once did Rafa Benitez suggest that there was a game that his Liverpool couldn't win. (that isn't a plea for him to come back incidentally, just an observation). Hodgson has never once done this. His attitiude sometimes smacks of desperation.

 

His lack of activity on the bench bothers me. Take the other night- McCarthy was constantly out of his seat, barking orders to his players. Hodgson was, for the most part, sat huddled up with his hands in his pockets looking utterly bewildered by it all. Now- some people say (and they certainly may have a point) that a manager can do very little from the bench no matter how much they gesticulate and throw commands out. But that would be missing the point- it's the IMAGE of a man in charge that makes the difference. On Wednesday, like against Newcastle, we were shorn of leaders on the pitch, be that leaders in the form of players, or leaders from the sidelines. The players looked lost and confused. Not once was a player hauled over to the sideline to be told exactly what the manager wanted, by the manager himself. Hodgson left the players alone. Christ, even Benitez took notes and you just knew that once they were back in the dressing room he'd be bollocking players that hadn't pulled their weight.

 

Does anybody think that Hodgson gave that sorry shambles of a team a dressing down after the final whistle on Wednesday? Does anybody think that he slaughtered them for letting down the thousands and thousands of fans who had been badly let down? I doubt it very much.

 

He may be a nice feller, but that is not enough. Even Roy Evans had us playing some bloody lovely football at times. He has shown almsot no idea about how to play Joe Cole, his 'marquee' signing. Or Fernando Torres for that matter. Wednesday was crying out for Gerrard to be played up behind Torres to spear the attack. Cole should have, in my opinion, featured on either the right or left, with Maxi taking the other flank.

 

The amount of times Pepe Reina has come to claim the ball in his usual dominant fashion, then look up to seek somebody bombing on so he could deliver one of his trademark quick passes/throws and see a shower of shite ambling out their penalty area has been embarrassing.

 

This dross that has been dressed up as tactics is an insult to the club, to the fans, to Shanks and Paisley.

 

Sorry to rant but there is very little I can find to support him. His attack on the fans was the final straw for me. Absolutely unforgiveable. He's pleading for time for his ideas to come across, for his style to be implemented- and if there was indeed signs of this happening we'd all lay off him a bit. But that's the thing- there is no new style, no new ideas. There is nothing. Simple as that. Carry on with Hodgson and the way for this football club is laid out before us- and it's not pretty viewing.

[dennis tooth]

Thats a class post, remember when we would score and Rafa would be scribbling notes as if we'd just won a throw in?

[Barnseysleftpeg]

I do not doubt his passion for the job . I belive that he is desperate for success and I can't help but feel for him when world class players miss open goals, miss time headers, give the ball away for no legitimate reason etc .

That said I just think he is too single minded and believed all the good press he got after Fulham's better than anyone expected season .

I tihkn behind closed doors he will admit this job is too much or him and he has no more ideas .

 

I understand that but his tactical ineptness is glaring. I mean come on I have no coaching experience whatsoever but even I know that the below would have done better against Wolves

 

Reina

Johnson Soto Agger/Skrtel Aurelio

Kuyt Lucas Raul Maxi

Gerrard

Torres

 

His redeeming qualities? I don't know, I guess he comes across as a nice fella who you probably could have a good conversation about football with.

[Son of L8]

Something to credit him with...

 

His absurd face-rubbing fits provided some material for a cracking joke that earned me a bucketload of TLW rep.

 

Thats about it really.

[rEddie]

Roy is a human being. He has family. He took a fantastic job and tried his best. He has probably tried his best for the benefit of himself, his family, the team and supporters. Probably in that order too. I think most of us can relate to that. This is why I will not personally abuse him, call him names or throw unnecessary insults. I have made enough failings in my life to have some humility in this regard...

 

...I have also paid the price for such failings when I have not lived up to requirements. No one called me a c*nt when that happened (personally or professionally speaking). I just got told to walk on.

 

With that Roy, you are not up to it. Nothing personal, but please walk on.

[VladimirIlyich]

He realised how shit Glen Johnson really was and told him too.

[Dicko]

In the summer managed to persuade Torres to stay and Cole to join

 

He didn't mate.

He spent 20 minutes with Torres tops, the rest he left to Purslow, which I assume led to the release clause being inserted into the contract.

 

Hodgson basically washed his hands of the Cole transfer last week.

[piscinin]

Roy is a human being. He has family. He took a fantastic job and tried his best. He has probably tried his best for the benefit of himself, his family, the team and supporters. Probably in that order too. I think most of us can relate to that. This is why I will not personally abuse him, call him names or throw unnecessary insults. I have made enough failings in my life to have some humility in this regard...

 

...I have also paid the price for such failings when I have not lived up to requirements. No one called me a c*nt when that happened (personally or professionally speaking). I just got told to walk on.

 

With that Roy, you are not up to it. Nothing personal, but please walk on.

 

*Tips hat*

[cracker]

He didn't mate.

He spent 20 minutes with Torres tops, the rest he left to Purslow, which I assume led to the release clause being inserted into the contract.

 

Hodgson basically washed his hands of the Cole transfer last week.

 

You might be right, I've no idea (altho I am not keen to praise Purslow for anything as I just did not like the man and still think Roy must have talked to Torres a bit more than you say even if only on the phone) but I would still contend that in the early summer there were lotsa rumours about top players leaving and after Roys appointment many felt optimistic about the future and decided to stay. We had just appointed the man who had won the Manager of the Year last year so you could understand that - little did we know!!!

 

No positive things about Roy are what he has actually done, they are largely to do with impressions about him prior to him actually starting the job in earnest and altho there were some seeming extremists who were against him from the start most people including me welcomed his appointment - sadly the reality has obviously proved different. And the extremists have been proved right - I wish they hadn't but they have - funny old world.

[Phoenix]

You might be right, I've no idea (altho I am not keen to praise Purslow for anything as I just did not like the man and still think Roy must have talked to Torres a bit more than you say even if only on the phone) but I would still contend that in the early summer there were lotsa rumours about top players leaving and after Roys appointment many felt optimistic about the future and decided to stay. We had just appointed the man who had won the Manager of the Year last year so you could understand that - little did we know!!!

 

No positive things about Roy are what he has actually done, they are largely to do with impressions about him prior to him actually starting the job in earnest and altho there were some seeming extremists who were against him from the start most people including me welcomed his appointment - sadly the reality has obviously proved different. And the extremists have been proved right - I wish they hadn't but they have - funny old world.

 

Someone cynical might suggest that Torres got injured at an inconvenient time and the team he was hoping to sign for spent the money on someone else

[Guest TK-421]

I don't think it was a particularly extreme view to be against Hodgson's appointment.

[G Richards]

He has made a living out of the game which is more than the vast majority on here ever did. We're all experts behind our keyboards, but he is there in that arena, and most of us would give our right arm to swap places.

 

Of course he is over promoted and not suited to the job of being Liverpool manager, and that situation will take care of itself soon enough.

 

But fair play to him. He got the job and it is the pinnacle of hs career, even if it is clearly a step too far.

[derrickt]

Credit to Roy,

Ample sleep (Usually stay up late to watch the matches, but nowadays went to bed after First-Half display.

[cracker]

I don't think it was a particularly extreme view to be against Hodgson's appointment.

 

Well I did at the time definitely - as they have been proved right maybe I have to back down on that but I definitely thought those people were out of order - you should be behind anyone until proved otherwise.

 

I do not go to the games these days so cannot comment too much on the atmosphere at Anfield but I also think (as Roy himself said) that the fact that people did not want him there in the first place must make things harder.

 

Altho as Roy also said it is up to him to turn round those feelings by on the field performances - and he clearly has not done that

[aladdinsane]

The boardroom meeting parody's of him on youtube were hilarious and made me laugh a lot. Cheers Roy.