Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[VladimirIlyich]

I find it quite amusing that you make a baseless claim about socialism's critics ignoring any merit it may have, when the overwhelming ignorance is that of socialism's defenders denying its failures.

How about we actually try it for once and see if it does work?

Fuck those Socialist ideals that founded the NHS,free education,workers rights and other such nonsense and lets let that 5% at the top look after the rest of us as they wont mind doing.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Has Moosey Goosey got bored yet or are we bored with him ?  I heard he never got over his Mother having a relationship with a Scouse Spot Welder working away in Leicester. The Young Tories found out and gave him hell. That said, I wonder if he still speaks to his Dad ?

[Jairzinho]

Watching QT on i-player.

 

Listening to some gimp in the audience say that we all owe a debt of gratitude to everyone that voted Tory. Then hearing the opinions of a Tory plumber.

 

What a cunt of a country.

[Jairzinho]

I'd like to put Grant Shapps in a cement mixer.

[Strontium]

You really are playing troll card on this aren't you? 

 

Tell you what, you explain how everyone does have fair access to further education, then explain how you attained your degree for example? How much debt did you owe, who funded your A-levels (or equivalent)/ Theoretically, how, today you would manage to attain the same qualification should you be from a economically deprived background?

 

Asking someone to support their claims isn't trolling.

 

Further education in this country is funded by loans that you don't pay until you are earning a certain amount, and which are written off after 30 years.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but access would appear to be relatively straightforward when the cost of further education is zero pounds down and potentially zero pounds later.

 

My loan debt, incurred in 1997, currently stands at around £6,000; 17 years later, I haven't started paying any of that off yet, although unfortunately mine won't be written off for another 30 years.

 

Under today's system, I would technically have more debt but, again, all other things being equal, I wouldn't have begun to pay any of it off, and I would be only 13 years away from having the debt written off rather than 30.

 

A debt you never have to pay is no kind of debt at all, no matter how large it may technically be.

[Strontium]

How about we actually try it for once and see if it does work?

Fuck those Socialist ideals that founded the NHS,free education,workers rights and other such nonsense and lets let that 5% at the top look after the rest of us as they wont mind doing.

 

You make it sound like social healthcare, free education and so on are the exclusive preserve of socialists.

 

Even if we ignore the role of the liberals Lloyd George and Beveridge in laying the foundations for the NHS and welfare state in this country, the world's first welfare state was created in 19th century Germany by Otto von Bismarck, a conservative.

 

Socialists need to stop pretending that they're the only people on the planet who are capable of displaying basic human decency. Progress will happen without you, and sometimes, in spite of you.

[Section_31]

Asking someone to support their claims isn't trolling.

 

Further education in this country is funded by loans that you don't pay until you are earning a certain amount, and which are written off after 30 years.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but access would appear to be relatively straightforward when the cost of further education is zero pounds down and potentially zero pounds later.

 

My loan debt, incurred in 1997, currently stands at around £6,000; 17 years later, I haven't started paying any of that off yet, although unfortunately mine won't be written off for another 30 years.

 

Under today's system, I would technically have more debt but, again, all other things being equal, I wouldn't have begun to pay any of it off, and I would be only 13 years away from having the debt written off rather than 30.

 

A debt you never have to pay is no kind of debt at all, no matter how large it may technically be.

 

 

Until someone realises that fact and we have another credit crunch. Student debt isn't just used to fund education (and especially not quality education) it's an industry in itself. Town centres are redesigning themselves around the student pound, developments which would have been flats and haven't been sold have been turned into 'luxury student accommodation', with bars and convenience stores springing up around them to further exploit that student pound. If you go to the vast majority of eateries, bars and cinemas in Liverpool during the week, most of the people spending money are students.  The problem is, most of it is never going to be paid back, and we'll foot the bill.

 

Universities have tailored themselves around a mass trawl of students (I think they actually refer to students as 'funding units', although that may be just colleges), accepting anyone and everyone (when I went to Liverpool uni in 1999 I was told my faculty's population had trebled compared to the year before, thus diminishing the student experience with larger seminar groups, lecture theatres where people were sitting on the floor etc), I know people who literally have learning difficulties and they've been to three universities and never passed the first year exams because they should never have been there in the first place, yet they have run up huge debts.

 

As with everything when it comes to free market economics, I have no problem with it in principle - the issue is that, in our model and the American model, it is completely unrestrained, it always - always is. If it was Denmark or Germany or something, it'd probably really be a case of making students pay for good quality education because it was the only way it could be provided, over here it's about a fucking good screw, it always is, if we privatise the NHS it won't be about genuinely trying to find a way to fund an expensive service, it'll be about a fucking good screw.

[Coro]

David Cameron's lies on debt from the UK Statistics Authority boss.

[Creator Supreme]

Seeing what's in those quotes, I'm so glad I've got Strontium cunt on ignore!!

[VladimirIlyich]

You make it sound like social healthcare, free education and so on are the exclusive preserve of socialists.

 

Even if we ignore the role of the liberals Lloyd George and Beveridge in laying the foundations for the NHS and welfare state in this country, the world's first welfare state was created in 19th century Germany by Otto von Bismarck, a conservative.

 

Socialists need to stop pretending that they're the only people on the planet who are capable of displaying basic human decency. Progress will happen without you, and sometimes, in spite of you.

 

Never mind,'laying the foundation' actions speak louder than words. We can spout off all we want but until it comes into effect its all hot air. Pretty much the slogan of the modern Liberal Party.

 

As for the German 'Conservative' it would suggest the word Conservative means,in Political terms at least something very different in Germany to the shower of absolute twats we have over here.

 

Bismarck only created his welfare state due to wanting to hold onto power due to the rise of the Socialists at the time as he would most likely have been ousted and it happened anyway.

 

But 19th century Germany bears little resemblance to modern Britain and its class system. The same system which very nearly allowed Hitler to drive a wedge into British society before the second world war. After all he was the darling of the Daily Mail!

 

I do have to laugh at somebody who calls themselves 'a Liberal' and yet defends the most right wing British government in a generation and somebody who chooses to cite the war in Iraq(I agree with you on this point) as an atrocious act in causing the deaths of many ordinary Iraqis and later Afghans too,yet cares very little for the human rights of his fellow UK citizens through supporting the current corrupt and crooked regime.

[Red Phoenix]

Try and have a good think about this please, Conservative voters :

 

 

“Theresa May will also announce that the Conservative manifesto will contain pledges to introduce banning orders for extremist groups and extremism disruption orders for extremists who spread hate but do not break existing laws.” Conservative briefing note.

 

The home secretary’s manifesto plan to silence extremists by banning their access to the web and television is cast far wider than the Islamist “preachers of hate” of tabloid headlines. As David Cameron pointed out, the Conservatives now want to look at the “full spectrum of extremism” and not just the “hard end” of that spectrum that counter-terrorism policy has focused on up to now.

 

The difference is spelled out in the detail of the policy, where it says that it is intended to catch not just those who “spread or incite hatred” on grounds of gender, race or religion but also those who undertake “harmful activities” for the “purpose of overthrowing democracy”.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/theresa-may-extremism-disruption-orders

[Carvalho Diablo]

[stringvest]

Asking someone to support their claims isn't trolling.

 

Further education in this country is funded by loans that you don't pay until you are earning a certain amount, and which are written off after 30 years.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but access would appear to be relatively straightforward when the cost of further education is zero pounds down and potentially zero pounds later.

 

My loan debt, incurred in 1997, currently stands at around £6,000; 17 years later, I haven't started paying any of that off yet, although unfortunately mine won't be written off for another 30 years.

 

Under today's system, I would technically have more debt but, again, all other things being equal, I wouldn't have begun to pay any of it off, and I would be only 13 years away from having the debt written off rather than 30.

 

A debt you never have to pay is no kind of debt at all, no matter how large it may technically be.

 

you can't have it both ways; you're supporting the troll who believes education is all about employability; presumably that employability should at some point mean that you're going to pay for it.  If not, according to mooseshitforbtrains, what is the fucking point?

[stringvest]

Try and have a good think about this please, Conservative voters :

 

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/theresa-may-extremism-disruption-orders

 

these cunts spread more hate than all the hook limbed muzzies out there.  

[stringvest]

 

I do have to laugh at somebody who calls themselves 'a Liberal' and yet defends the most right wing British government in a generation and somebody who chooses to cite the war in Iraq(I agree with you on this point) as an atrocious act in causing the deaths of many ordinary Iraqis and later Afghans too,yet cares very little for the human rights of his fellow UK citizens through supporting the current corrupt and crooked regime.

 

Increasingly, being a liberal in this country means that everyone is free to be as big a cunt as they want to be, unfettered by the norms of society and civility.  Some are nearer reaching that aspiration than others.

[Jairzinho]

Increasingly, being a liberal in this country means that everyone is free to be as big a cunt as they want to be, unfettered by the norms of society and civility. Some are nearer reaching that aspiration than others.

All the differences in social policies etc with parties that support neo liberalism are largely irrelevant. If you support neo liberal economics the lives of many people will be fucking shit.

 

Freedom to be poor.

[Rico1304]

you can't have it both ways; you're supporting the troll who believes education is all about employability; presumably that employability should at some point mean that you're going to pay for it.  If not, according to mooseshitforbtrains, what is the fucking point?

I'm gonna get hammered for this so I've stocked up on razors and will post pictures of the cuts when some fan boys call me a cunt but I don't see the issue with people paying for further education after 18.

 

Make some degrees free, maybe doctors, nurses, teachers but make the qualifying criteria as strict as possible so you only get the best. Interview them too to keep out the nutcases or those unsuited to it. Other degrees have the same system as now, if it's a degree that will increase your earning potential you'll pay it back. I really struggle with paying the fees for someone who wants to go and do an artsy wanky degree for their own amusement. No problem with them doing it obviously, fair fucks to them - but don't ask the rest of us to pay for it. That money is needed elsewhere, sorry, but thems the breaks.

 

Now where's my Stanley knife...

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Rico, you cunt.

[Red Phoenix]

I really struggle with paying the fees for someone who wants to go and do an artsy wanky degree for their own amusement.

 

Sorry, but I really disagree with this alone. To obtain a degree, as far as I know, requires a lot of hard work. The percentage of the population that tries to obtain one "for their own amusement" must be seriously minimal at best, or possibly almost non-existent.

 

And what you term "artsy wanky" could be something that for a large part, has at least a chance, of leading even a small group of people into a selection of very highly paid jobs.

 

Anyway, I deeply believe that knowledge when it comes to learning for a potential job, should be completely free.

[Jairzinho]

Rico, you cunt.

What a fan boy.

[Rico1304]

Rico, you cunt.

Blue!!! It's blue boy, thanks. Bye.

[Rico1304]

Sorry, but I really disagree with this alone. To obtain a degree, as far as I know, requires a lot of hard work. The percentage of the population that tries to obtain one "for their own amusement" must be seriously minimal at best, or possibly almost non-existent. And what you term "artsy wanky" could be something that for a large part, has at least a chance, of leading even a small group of people into a selection of very highly paid jobs.Anyway, I deeply believe that knowledge when it comes to learning for a potential job, should be completely free.

So if they earn a load of money then they shouldn't mind paying for it surely. if you take a completely unrelated degree in the hope the academic process will get a job then that should be at your risk, not mine.

 

Surely the idea of pandering to an individual over the needs of many is the opposite of socialism?

[stringvest]

I'm gonna get hammered for this so I've stocked up on razors and will post pictures of the cuts when some fan boys call me a cunt but I don't see the issue with people paying for further education after 18.

 

Make some degrees free, maybe doctors, nurses, teachers but make the qualifying criteria as strict as possible so you only get the best. Interview them too to keep out the nutcases or those unsuited to it. Other degrees have the same system as now, if it's a degree that will increase your earning potential you'll pay it back. I really struggle with paying the fees for someone who wants to go and do an artsy wanky degree for their own amusement. No problem with them doing it obviously, fair fucks to them - but don't ask the rest of us to pay for it. That money is needed elsewhere, sorry, but thems the breaks.

 

Now where's my Stanley knife...

 

I don't think you'll get hammered for it, and I believe at a minimum that people taking a degree in certain subjects with a view to taking a job in say, nursing, should be absolutely free.  It is criminal that they're not.  

 

Artsy wanky?  one of the things that separates us from the rest of the animals on the planet is the ability to produce and enjoy art.  Some would say it is the highest form of education.  I would hate to see a knowledge of art - or indeed an ability to produce something -  denied to all except those that can pay for it.  We are decivilising at enormous pace as it is; fuck knows where it would end up if art degrees had to be paid for.  My son's just started uni, and my daughter will, all being well, start next year.  No grants for them.  If my daughter decides to study English, or Music, I'll be happy, as she will be studying subjects she loves.  She may not make a fortune in her career, but she will have a great chance of a fulfilling one.  

 

I think the system is right at the border of unfairness, and the conservatives would I'm sure like to push it well beyond that border.  Any further government regression of the commitment to educating our young will have me out on the streets with a molotov cocktail in my hand, I shit you not.  These cunts are all for short term profit, and let the health and life chances of the nation (i.e. the 98% of the people who are not impervious to the massive scam that continues apace) go to hell.

[Red Phoenix]

So if they earn a load of money then they shouldn't mind paying for it surely. if you take a completely unrelated degree in the hope the academic process will get a job then that should be at your risk, not mine.

 

Surely the idea of pandering to an individual over the needs of many is the opposite of socialism?

Oh we're really into the territory of twisting things now.

 

This is what I believe, part of the the basic, foundation of what I believe, when it comes to left vs right, socialism vs capitalism, and so on : that all of us, as part of our "tax", should have some of that money going to making sure that we, as a population, have the best chances at least, of good health, protection of human rights, protection of the environment and wildlife, and education.

 

And if you want to argue that, please take into account the fact that if we recovered tax "properly", we might not have any deficit in the first place, which asks serious questions about the excus....so-called reason, for all of this austerity, which is via our so-called friends at the IMF, and so on.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I can't quite understand how if we have austerity measures cuts can be made to public services to pay for tax cuts. Surely then point of austerity is you make cuts to public services to push the deficit down not too rob Peter to pay Paul. You don't spend money your trying to save elsewhere.