Top Ten Conspiracy Theories

[Spy Bee]

Whether they are Jews or not is of little importance to me, the fact that they are murderous, callous fucking beats is a bit of a concern though.

[janmolby]

My mates well into all things 'conspiracy theory' probably explains why he goes to church every Sunday the weirdo.

[KopOut]

Whether they are Jews or not is of little importance to me, the fact that they are murderous, callous fucking beats is a bit of a concern though.

Israel is only there because of fucking Hitler. No Hitler and the modern manufactured state of Israel, home for displaced Jews, wouldn't exist.

[PestiRed]

Israel is only there because of fucking Hitler. No Hitler and the modern manufactured state of Israel, home for displaced Jews, wouldn't exist.

The Nazi Party were a Jewish conspiracy?

[KopOut]

The Nazi Party were a Jewish conspiracy?

I can't confirm that, no.

 

Just interesting how shit comes round to bite us on the bum.

 

Imagine the billions and trillions the USA could have saved in Israeli aid, if all the jewish refugees had just gone home. As in, prior to Nazi displacement. Palestine might just be a peaceful region now as well.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I can't confirm that, no.

 

Just interesting how shit comes round to bite us on the bum.

 

Imagine the billions and trillions the USA could have saved in Israeli aid, if all the jewish refugees had just gone home. As in, prior to Nazi displacement. Palestine might just be a peaceful region now as well.

In fairness to the Nazis (now there's an expression you don't hear often!) the Zionist project to establish a Jewish homeland in the places their sky-pixie promised to them pre-dates Hitler.  Jews in all parts of Europe* had been getting the shitty end of the stick for centuries.  Can't blame them for wanting out: the trouble is, by the time they "went home" there was already a large and well-established non-Jewish society there. 

 

 

 

(*Except in those parts of Southern Europe which, prior to 1492, were run by Muslims.  History's full of bizarre ironies!)

[Ginny]

The Nazi Party were a Jewish conspiracy?

It's actually been suggested by many conspiracy theorists that the world war was funded by the Rosthschilds for this very reason.

[Strontium]

It's actually been suggested by many conspiracy theorists that the world war was funded by the Rosthschilds for this very reason.

 

Proving once and for all that conspiracy theorists are utterly full of crap.

[ZonkoVille77]

It's actually been suggested by many conspiracy theorists that the world war was funded by the Rosthschilds for this very reason.

I've read some shite in my time but this is pure horse shite. Not shooting the messenger btw.

[Stu Monty]

 

Proving once and for all that conspiracy theorists are utterly full of crap.

 

Says the man who thinks the CIA's Latin American arms spent the time after the cold war looking into Islamic fundamentalism, as opposed to destabilising governments and furthering US corporate grabs of resources.

 

You're not great on how the real world actually works brother.

 

If you don't see conspiracy and collusion pretty much everywhere then you've basically not informed yourself very well on how things happen.

 

You heard the one about the US election getting rigged? I know...some people!

[Strontium]

Says the man who thinks the CIA's Latin American arms spent the time after the cold war looking into Islamic fundamentalism, as opposed to destabilising governments and furthering US corporate grabs of resources.

 

You're not great on how the real world actually works brother.

 

If you don't see conspiracy and collusion pretty much everywhere then you've basically not informed yourself very well on how things happen.

 

You heard the one about the US election getting rigged? I know...some people!

 

 

Oh god, not this again.

 

I didn't say that about the CIA's Latin American field offices. It was a comment about the wider CIA, as well you know. What with the vast majority of CIA agents actually being based in the US and everything.

 

I also requested credible recent evidence of the CIA systematically destablising South American governments. None was forthcoming. There's a good reason for that.

 

I know how the world works, I just don't see quite as many tentacles as you. Blaming everything that happens on the CIA is lazy, as well as ridiculous.

[Hand Shandy]

Who needs the CIA?

 

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots

 

Nearly all of the highest-profile domestic terrorism plots in the United States since 9/11 featured the "direct involvement" of government agents or informants, a new report says.

 

Some of the controversial "sting" operations "were proposed or led by informants", bordering on entrapment by law enforcement. Yet the courtroom obstacles to proving entrapment are significant, one of the reasons the stings persist.

 

The lengthy report, released on Monday by Human Rights Watch, raises questions about the US criminal justice system's ability to respect civil rights and due process in post-9/11 terrorism cases. It portrays a system that features not just the sting operations but secret evidence, anonymous juries, extensive pretrial detentions and convictions significantly removed from actual plots.

 

"In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act," the report alleges.

 

Out of the 494 cases related to terrorism the US has tried since 9/11, the plurality of convictions – 18% overall – are not for thwarted plots but for "material support" charges, a broad category expanded further by the 2001 Patriot Act that permits prosecutors to pursue charges with tenuous connections to a terrorist act or group.

 

In one such incident, the initial basis for a material-support case alleging a man provided "military gear" to al-Qaida turned out to be waterproof socks in his luggage.

 

Several cases featured years-long solitary confinement for accused terrorists before their trials. Some defendants displayed signs of mental incapacity. Jurors for the 2007 plot to attack the Fort Dix army base, itself influenced by government informants, were anonymous, limiting defense counsel's ability to screen out bias.

 

Human Rights Watch’s findings call into question the post-9/11 shift taken by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies toward stopping terrorist plots before they occur. While the vast majority of counterterrorism tactics involved are legally authorized, particularly after Congress and successive administrations relaxed restrictions on law enforcement and intelligence agencies for counterterrorism, they suggest that the government’s zeal to protect Americans has in some cases morphed into manufacturing threats.

 

The report focuses primarily on 27 cases and accordingly stops short of drawing systemic conclusions. It also finds several trials and convictions for "deliberate attempts at terrorism or terrorism financing" that it does not challenge.

 

The four high-profile domestic plots it found free of government involvement were the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing; Najibullah Zazi's 2009 plot to bomb the New York subway; the attempted Times Square carbombing of 2010; and the 2002 shooting at Los Angeles International Airport's El Al counter.

 

But the report is a rare attempt at a critical overview of a system often touted by the Obama administration and civil libertarian groups as a rigorous, capable and just alternative to the military tribunals and indefinite detention advocated by conservative critics. It comes as new pressure mounts on a variety of counterterrorism practices, from thecourtroom use of warrantless surveillanceto the no-fly list and law enforcement's "suspicious activity reports" database.

 

In particular, Human Rights Watch examines the extent and impact of law enforcement's use of terrorism informants, who can both steer people into attempted acts of violence and chill religious or civic behaviour in the communities they penetrate.

 

Linda Sarsour, the executive director of the Arab American Association of New York, a social services agency, told the Guardian she almost has a "radar for informants" sent to infiltrate her Brooklyn community.

 

While the FBI has long relied on confidential informants to alert them to criminal activity, for terrorism cases informants insert themselves into Muslim mosques, businesses and community gatherings and can cajole people toward a plot “who perhaps would never have participated in a terrorist act on their own initiative”, the study found.

 

Many trade information for cash. The FBI in 2008 estimated it had 15,000 paid informants. About 30% of post-9/11 terrorism cases are considered sting operations in which informants played an “active role” in incubating plots leading to arrest, according to studies cited in the Human Rights Watch report. Among those roles are making comments “that appeared designed to inflame the targets” on “politically sensitive” subjects, and pushing operations forward if a target’s “opinions were deemed sufficiently troubling”.

 

Entrapment, the subject of much FBI criticism over the years, is difficult to prove in court. The burden is on a defendant to show he or she was not “predisposed” to commit a violent act, even if induced by a government agent. Human Rights Watch observes that standard focuses attention “not on the crime, but on the nature of the subject”, often against a backdrop where “inflammatory stereotypes and highly charged characterizations of Islam and foreigners often prevail”.

 

Among the informants themselves there is less ambiguity. “It is all about entrapment,” Craig Monteilh, one such former FBI informant tasked with mosque infiltration, told the Guardian in 2012.

 

Informants, the study found, sometimes overcome their targets’ stated objections to engage in terrorism. A man convicted in 2006 of attempting to bomb the Herald Square subway station in Manhattan told an informant who concocted the plot he would have to check with his mother and was uncomfortable planting the bombs himself. One member of the "Newburgh Four" plot to attack synagogues and military planes – whose case is the subject of an HBO documentary airing on Monday – told his informant “maybe my mission hasn’t come yet”.

 

Once in court, terrorism cases receive evidentiary and pre-trial leeway rarely afforded to non-terrorism cases. A federal judge in Virginia permitted into evidence statements made by a defendant while in a Saudi jail in which the defendant, Amed Omar Abu Ali, alleged torture, a longstanding practice in Saudi Arabia. The evidence formed the basis for a conviction, and eventually a life sentence, for conspiracy to assassinate George W Bush. Mohammed Warsame, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, was held in solitary confinement for five years before his trial.

 

Another implication of the law-enforcement tactics cited the report is a deepening alienation of American Muslims from a government that publicly insists it needs their support to head off extremism but secretly deploys informants to infiltrate mosques and community centers.

 

“The best way to prevent violent extremism inspired by violent jihadists is to work with the Muslim American community – which has consistently rejected terrorism – to identify signs of radicalization and partner with law enforcement when an individual is drifting towards violence. And these partnerships can only work when we recognize that Muslims are a fundamental part of the American family,” Obama said in a high-profile 2013 speech.

 

Yet the Obama administration has needed to purge Islamophobic training materials from FBI counterterrorism, which sparked deep suspicion in US Muslim communities. It is now conducting a review of similar material in the intelligence community after a document leaked by Edward Snowden used the slur “Mohammed Raghead” as a placeholder for Muslims.

 

http://gu.com/p/4v5ep

[Stu Monty]

 

 

Oh god, not this again.

 

I didn't say that about the CIA's Latin American field offices. It was a comment about the wider CIA, as well you know. What with the vast majority of CIA agents actually being based in the US and everything.

 

I also requested credible recent evidence of the CIA systematically destablising South American governments. None was forthcoming.

 

I know how the world works, I just don't see quite as many tentacles as you. Blaming everything that happens on the CIA is lazy, as well as ridiculous.

 

It was another one of your terribly clever comments that was completely beside the point being made that turned out not to be very clever. As well you know.

 

Yeah, funny how the CIA don't throw their minutes on the internet isn't it? Almost as if they are a clandestine organisation. What might save us time SD, is if you just email them asking for it? Then you can pop it up here mate. Deal?

 

As I pointed out last time: what sort of fucking idiot needs evidence that an intelligence agency would be operating in a hostile country to the detriment of the current governments? And what sort of messed up, child-like, thinking does it take to imagine that an agency that regularly got results with removing or killing unwanted leaders would just stop. They'd just decide the thing that works so well is something they won't bother with any more. 

 

Take a religious level of convincing yourself the world is not as it is, that.

 

Strawman again at the end. As per.

[FanchesterCity]

The most powerful nation on earth is likely to do whatever it takes to maintain its position.

History teaches us this, and some things never change.

 

It will collude with the enemy of its enemies.

It will compromise the safety of its best friends.

It will sacrifice parts of itself to preserve the rest.

It will convince itself of the righteousness of its actions.

It will lie to its people.

It will bribe.

It will fund.

It will arm.

It will train.

It will assassinate.

 

This is humankind.

[Strontium]

 

Yeah, funny how the CIA don't throw their minutes on the internet isn't it? Almost as if they are a clandestine organisation. What might save us time SD, is if you just email them asking for it? Then you can pop it up here mate. Deal?

 

As I pointed out last time: what sort of fucking idiot needs evidence that an intelligence agency would be operating in a hostile country to the detriment of the current governments? And what sort of messed up, child-like, thinking does it take to imagine that an agency that regularly got results with removing or killing unwanted leaders would just stop. They'd just decide the thing that works so well is something they won't bother with any more.

 

I know the CIA are secretive. It comes with the territory of being spies. Nevertheless, there are reams of information on their past clandestine activities in South America. That's the sort of thing that doesn't stay secret for long.

 

I think you'd need to explain why, in a post Cold War world, the US would be quite as interested as they once were in destabilising governments. Surely the largest motive for detabilisation has gone?

 

I'm not even saying that the CIA would never ever destabilise a South American government ever again. I'm saying I'd like to see some evidence of it happening recently. That's all.

[Stu Monty]

 

 

 

I know the CIA are secretive. It comes with the territory of being spies. Nevertheless, there are reams of information on their past clandestine activities in South America. That's the sort of thing that doesn't stay secret for long.

 

I think you'd need to explain why, in a post Cold War world, the US would be quite as interested as they once were in destabilising governments. Surely the largest motive for detabilisation has gone?

 

I'm not even saying that the CIA would never ever destabilise a South American government ever again. I'm saying I'd like to see some evidence of it happening recently. That's all.

 

You wouldn't like to see it that much would you, or you'd have read a little bit on the subject from a decent journalist?

 

I wouldn't need to explain why the US would destabilise left-leaning governments, would I. Unless I was talking to a cretin, as opposed to someone pretending to be one for the purposes of a debate. Your above post would seem to indicate almost no knowledge at all about the history of Neoliberalism. Quite a feat.

[Strontium]

 

You wouldn't like to see it that much would you, or you'd have read a little bit on the subject from a decent journalist?

 

I wouldn't need to explain why the US would destabilise left-leaning governments, would I. Unless I was talking to a cretin, as opposed to someone pretending to be one for the purposes of a debate. Your above post would seem to indicate almost no knowledge at all about the history of Neoliberalism. Quite a feat.

 

Round and round and round we go. Truly tedious.

 

Come back if you have any actual evidence. Until then...

[Stu Monty]

 

 

 

Round and round and round we go. Truly tedious.

 

Come back if you have any actual evidence. Until then...

 

...you'll be quenching that massive thirst for knowledge by doing the same as always....hoping someone throws it at you from a passing car.

 

I await your explanation of what you think the CIA objectives are in hostile countries. Presumably they're there to sell lemonade. I also await your explanation of why they just stopped doing effective things that they've always done to further their self-interest.

[Anubis]

Whoa there! The CIA used to run Schofields??!!

[Strontium]

...you'll be quenching that massive thirst for knowledge by doing the same as always....hoping someone throws it at you from a passing car.

 

I await your explanation of what you think the CIA objectives are in hostile countries. Presumably they're there to sell lemonade. I also await your explanation of why they just stopped doing effective things that they've always done to further their self-interest.

 

Well, this is it. I read a lot and hence while I'm aware of a lot, I don't recall reading much about CIA activities in Latin America recently. Jog my memory, please.

 

The CIA spy. Because they are spies.

 

Which countries have been overthrown in Latin America recently? Either the CIA haven't done that lately, or they suddenly got really bad it.

[Spy Bee]

Well, this is it. I read a lot and hence while I'm aware of a lot, I don't recall reading much about CIA activities in Latin America recently. Jog my memory, please.

 

The CIA spy. Because they are spies.

 

Which countries have been overthrown in Latin America recently? Either the CIA haven't done that lately, or they suddenly got really bad it.

I don't know much about the CIA in South America, but I do know that to totally dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand without assessing them, just because they have the label of 'conspiracy theory' is retarded! 

[Strontium]

I don't know much about the CIA in South America, but I do know that to totally dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand without assessing them, just because they have the label of 'conspiracy theory' is retarded!

 

Dismissing anything which does not come with supporting evidence is not "retarded". It is sanity.

 

Being open-minded is a virtue, but not the extent that your brain falls out.

 

I truly cannot believe some of the cretinous bullshit that certain people believe. And I'm not even talking about the CIA stuff, which is at least grounded in reality.

[Spy Bee]

Dismissing anything which does not come with supporting evidence is not "retarded". It is sanity.

 

Being open-minded is a virtue, but not the extent that your brain falls out.

 

I truly cannot believe some of the cretinous bullshit that certain people believe. And I'm not even talking about the CIA stuff, which is at least grounded in reality.

I actually agree with that post. I would caveat it by saying that you need to be aware of how evidence can be withheld, manipulated and controlled much more easily by people with money, power and intelligence.

[Spy Bee]

Dismissing anything which does not come with supporting evidence is not "retarded". It is sanity.

In fact, I don't agree, that was rash. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Stu Monty]

Well, this is it. I read a lot and hence while I'm aware of a lot, I don't recall reading much about CIA activities in Latin America recently. Jog my memory, please.

 

The CIA spy. Because they are spies.

 

Which countries have been overthrown in Latin America recently? Either the CIA haven't done that lately, or they suddenly got really bad it.

 

Have you ever considered that it might be what you're reading that's the issue?