Curtis Jones

[Supremolad]

I see some are putting forward the theory that Klopp's instructions might be holding Curtis back.

 

However, a few weeks ago Klopp said to the media that he had actually had a chat with Curtis. Told him it was time to step up a level, more or less. So I certainly believe Klopp isn't the one telling Curtis to hold onto the ball too long before eventually playing it safe or losing it.

 

I still believe we would see more from the lad but at the moment, it'll be tough for him to get in ahead of some of our other players in midfield.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

3 hours ago, aRdja said:

“Phenomenally talented” is hyperbole. He’s a talented young player, but he’s 21. At the same age, Ronaldo Luiz Nazario had scored 80 goals in top flight football. Curtis is nowhere near that. 

You talk some bollocks.

[Tony Moanero]

12 hours ago, Alex_K said:

No - he played cumulatively just over 90 minutes for the Liverpool team that won the league in 19/20. He was not a contributing factor.

 

He played most prominently through the period for the Liverpool team where the wheels fell off in Jan. / Feb. / early-March 20/21. That wasn't a coincidence. He was back out of the Liverpool team by the time we were strong again in late-March / Apr. / May. Again, that wasn't a coincidence.

 

He's too slow. Not good enough on the ball relative to his playing style. I don't think he's been able to complete 90 minutes even 10 times in the league. History is full of young players who come up through competitive/league winning teams and don't stay at that level. To be honest he probably doesn't get into this Villa side (they've bought quite a lot since the £15 mil bid for him); I would guess around Palace is his level (Loftus Cheek style) - which is still a 50k a week gig in the strongest professional league and not to be sniffed at. We'll see.

Football fans being arsed about players’ wages belongs in the shitness of modern football thread.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Supremolad said:

I see some are putting forward the theory that Klopp's instructions might be holding Curtis back.

 

However, a few weeks ago Klopp said to the media that he had actually had a chat with Curtis. Told him it was time to step up a level, more or less. So I certainly believe Klopp isn't the one telling Curtis to hold onto the ball too long before eventually playing it safe or losing it.

 

I still believe we would see more from the lad but at the moment, it'll be tough for him to get in ahead of some of our other players in midfield.

We can only field 11 players so at least 15 players have to accept bit parts in a brilliant team.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 minute ago, Tony Moanero said:

Football fans being arsed about players’ wages belongs in the shitness of modern football thread.

To be fair Tone,even Klopp has said about players being handsomely paid to sit on the bench. He himself expects them to be grateful even if not playing regularly.

[Tony Moanero]

7 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

To be fair Tone,even Klopp has said about players being handsomely paid to sit on the bench. He himself expects them to be grateful even if not playing regularly.

Wages are the concern of club owners, managers, players, etc. Why would fans be interested? 50k, 75k, 100k, 200k a week. It’s depressing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Wages are the concern of club owners, managers, players, etc. Why would fans be interested? 50k, 75k, 100k, 200k a week. It’s depressing.

I'm concerned to the extent that Man United's and Everton's wage bills are a massive burden and it's glorious.

[VladimirIlyich]

37 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Wages are the concern of club owners, managers, players, etc. Why would fans be interested? 50k, 75k, 100k, 200k a week. It’s depressing.

I think it's a genuine concern because a lot of that money comes from fans in a day and age where wages are pretty shocking and unemployment rife. That's a whole different thread though.

[Vincent Vega]

I like Curtis and think he’s got plenty of talent and am far from writing him off as someone who could get plenty of games for us in the future. However I wouldn’t be surprised if we sold him in the summer if we got an acceptable bid. If we did sell him I’d be looking to include both buyback and sell-on clauses to protect ourselves.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

I sigh a little when I see him named in a starting XI. 

 

That said, I think the 3rd midfielder in the midfield 3 is a difficult position to excel in.  Even Gini was seen by many to struggle there, and yet we all know Gini was excellent. 

 

Same with Keita and Ox, both struggle to make an impression there.  

 

It's an odd position, it's not entirely clear what Klopp wants that player to do, it's the spare man to complement whatever phase of the game we're in, sometimes defensive, sometimes a fourth striker, sometimes just moving the ball, sometimes closing down.  On that basis, Keita was the ideal player with a 'bit of everything' in that regard.  Jones isn't that player. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

15 hours ago, Alex_K said:

No - he played cumulatively just over 90 minutes for the Liverpool team that won the league in 19/20. He was not a contributing factor.

 

He played most prominently through the period for the Liverpool team where the wheels fell off in Jan. / Feb. / early-March 20/21. That wasn't a coincidence. He was back out of the Liverpool team by the time we were strong again in late-March / Apr. / May. Again, that wasn't a coincidence.

 

He's too slow. Not good enough on the ball relative to his playing style. I don't think he's been able to complete 90 minutes even 10 times in the league. History is full of young players who come up through competitive/league winning teams and don't stay at that level. To be honest he probably doesn't get into this Villa side (they've bought quite a lot since the £15 mil bid for him); I would guess around Palace is his level (Loftus Cheek style) - which is still a 50k a week gig in the strongest professional league and not to be sniffed at. We'll see.

At least partly disagree. I think he’s got plenty of ability, and is definately good enough on the ball. (Off the ball may be a different matter)

 

His attitude and mentality will be decisive to how he develops, and not least to increase consistency, which is his main issue imo.

 

Very high ceiling, but mental factors and dedication will decide if he makes it here, or of he ends up at a midtable/lower PL club, or worst case in the Championship.

 

 

[aRdja]

7 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Why are you comparing him to a striker?  Curtis has quite clearly been playing in a system that doesn't permit him full attacking allowance like real Ronaldo.  Sure why not just compare him to a goalie moan about Jones lack of clean sheets?

 

I think he is phenomenally talented.

All I’m saying is whilst clearly promising his is not near a “phenomenon” in terms of talent. Has he shown more his than his peers e.g., Mount or Gallagher or Foden? I doubt you’d view it that highly if he wasn’t a scouser and he played for Chelsea for example. 

[TheHowieLama]

Certainly more than Gallagher at the same age - the other two are good players.

[aRdja]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Certainly more than Gallagher at the same age - the other two are good players.

I’m not convinced Howie. Gallagher is only a year older than Jones, and last season he played a full PL season with West Brom scoring 3 goals in the process, the same number of goals Jones has scored for us since he made his debut three seasons back. 

[TheHowieLama]

Nah , Your boy was involved in 4 golas in all last season.

 

Mr. Jones was involved in 9 - including a few in what they call the Champions League.

[aRdja]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Nah , Your boy was involved in 4 golas in all last season.

 

Mr. Jones was involved in 9 - including a few in what they call the Champions League.

West Brom didn’t play in the Champion league, so would’ve been impassible for Conor to make an impact there. I tried to make the comparison like-for-like. You could argue either way, but what’s clear is Jones has not shown that much more at all compared to Gallagher to warrant the “phenomenally talented” tag. 

[Rushies tash]

It seems like Jones is struggling to play with the discipline required from a Klopp midfield as well as his natural game. As soon as he can do both consistently, we'll have a hell of a player.

[aRdja]

10 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

It seems like Jones is struggling to play with the discipline required from a Klopp midfield as well as his natural game. As soon as he can do both consistently, we'll have a hell of a player.

He needs games to learn, and to get those games he needs to go out on loan. He hasn’t improved in four seasons so whatever we’re doing with him isn’t working. Fulham and Bournemouth play good football, so if they go up next season that’d be one of the first items I’d try get sorted out in the summer. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

30 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I’m not convinced Howie. Gallagher is only a year older than Jones, and last season he played a full PL season with West Brom scoring 3 goals in the process, the same number of goals Jones has scored for us since he made his debut three seasons back. 

Send him to Southampton so at least we won’t have to buy him after his ‘ proving time ‘

[Guest Alex_K]

5 hours ago, Tony Moanero said:

Football fans being arsed about players’ wages belongs in the shitness of modern football thread.

Thanks for your, as ever, insightful & predictive assessments on football. Perhaps best suited to writing about biscuits or something.

[Guest Alex_K]

1 hour ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

At least partly disagree. I think he’s got plenty of ability, and is definately good enough on the ball. (Off the ball may be a different matter)

 

His attitude and mentality will be decisive to how he develops, and not least to increase consistency, which is his main issue imo.

 

Very high ceiling, but mental factors and dedication will decide if he makes it here, or of he ends up at a midtable/lower PL club, or worst case in the Championship.

 

 

Klopp 2015: “Jordon is a really good lad. He's a skilful player and a big talent – fast, strong, good at dribbling. He has to learn so much but has a real good base. He feels good in this moment. You could see it in this match."

Klopp 2016: "Ibe is a brilliant, big talent which is very good for English football"

 

We know the rest. Klopp does not speak negatively about players with us but subtext on hia comments re: Jones top of page is its now or never. I think we likely see Jones' career trajectory move more in the Ibe than Mount/Foden direction mentioned by other posters, but let's see.

[3 Stacks]

If Jones is making excuses of the sort we see in this thread; that he doesn't understand what he needs to be doing playing deeper, that he's actually a #10, he'll never make it.

 

I don't see why he can't do consistently what he did against Arsenal, for example. Use your technique to be press resistant, use your athleticism, your stamina to go up and down. He's just been shite since that game.

[Em City]

He was brilliant away against Porto as well. I know we hammer them but they're not exactly a Championship team.

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

51 minutes ago, aRdja said:

West Brom didn’t play in the Champion league, so would’ve been impassible for Conor to make an impact there. I tried to make the comparison like-for-like.

It is difficult to make a like for like comparison when one fella is playing for West Brom.

 

Neither of them are phenomenally talented but one of them plays for one of the best sides in the world.

[Reckoner]

Like most players if he has a couple of good games then lots on here start to be herald him as the future, whereas if he struggles for half a game he needs to be moved on. It’s like a twitter for panicky reactionary football keyboard worriers.