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Keir Starmer

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58 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Has Starmer been called an anti-Semite yet ? Or has he not pissed the right people off yet 

Worse, mate!  He's a anti-Starmite.

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18 minutes ago, sir roger said:

The leak came from somewhere in Head Office and the only quotes from MPs and the likes of the BoD have been very supportive to him.

 

I  voted for him simply on his electability , but if he thinks he is getting dogs abuse , because of a few left wing websites ,he won’t win an election when the Tory machine gets rumbling.

I don't think he's arsed, he's been standing toe-to-toe with the likes of Murdoch for years. 

 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/phone-hacking-andy-coulson-and-rebekah-brooks-charged-7972938.html

 

Quote

One key factor behind today’s announcements is a decision by Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer to use a wider interpretation of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, which covers hacking offences.

 

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52 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I think it's interesting to see where politics is heading on both sides of the Atlantic. 

 

What seems to have happened with the Democrats is that they're appealing to what you'd traditionally call 'liberals'. Educated, working/middle class, while the Republicans are becoming a party of faux nationalism. 

 

At the last election apparently Labour did okay with the middle classes but as we know, the Tories did well in Northern working class areas. 

 

I think where politics risks going now is that the 'right' just become parties which underneath are all about keeping the status quo for the wealthy, but with fewer and fewer of those wealthy people willing to publicly support them (most companies now pay huge mind to social responsibility, whether genuine or not, because these 'liberal' ideas are more and more important to their customers), so the 'army' of voters they rely on instead are people who will rally around patriotism and flags.

 

More and more 'trendy wealth' will be gravitate to the Democrats. I reckon the same will happen here. 

 

The  Tories are (or will become) a vehicle for protecting extreme wealth (regardless of where it's from, Kuwait, St Petersberg, it doesn't matter) and will come to rely more and more on rabble rousing. 

 

The 'trendy liberals' had nowhere to go under Corbyn, I think they'd be more inclined to vote for Starmer, especially due to his Brexit stance.

 

On both sides of the Atlantic we'll end up with Republicans/Tories, and then a 'party of everyone who's not a Republican/Tory".  

 

Do I want a party like that? In an ideal world no, is it better than perpetual Tory government? Definitely. 

I said this at the start of Corbyn's reign in that not forming an 'anti tory alliance' was a massive mistake,far bigger than any Brexit decisions the party made.

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah fair point, Trump/Brexit has certainly brought it to the fore I suppose. 

 

With that in mind  though, isn't there something practical about moving to the so-called 'centre ground'? 

 

I'd be interested to know how many Lib Dems, Greens and the likes were drawn to New Labour. 

 

I genuinely don't see where the ammo is for a truly left wing Labour party. There would have been a time you'd have Fords factories and docks packed with blue collar workers, union men being marshaled to campaign and vote for Labour candidates, crucially, in Scotland too. And a lot of the time they still struggled to win, certainly in my early lifetime. 

 

Now those days are gone, unions still exist but not necessarily in large blue collar environments like they did back then. 

 

For Labour to win, it's going to have to discount Scotland, probably forever, and find a way of uniting everyone in England who doesn't want to vote Tory. No mean feat. 

 

I don't think any of it is possible without addressing other aspects of life - the education system, the media, what we do in our free time, and the stuff you've mentioned. With all the will in the world a few years of a Labour party putting forward social democratic views for the first time in a decade and a half was never going to cut it. I'm surprised it got as close as it did in 2017. People have had decades of being convinced that they've climbed the ladder. "Tells it how it is" white van man from East Cuntington thinks him and Branson are on the same team.

 

I agree, Scotland has gone. I speak to some people on the left in Scotland and there simply isn't anything Labour could do to make them vote for them. They don't trust the party and they want out. I don't blame them, if I was Scottish I'd vote for independence.

 

Sadly, I think Brexit/Trump etc is just the natural progression from the result of decades of neoliberalism. Things had gone shitter and shitter and it was the only protest in town, Murdoch et al put pay to the one on the other side of the argument. So yeah, maybe we're stuck in a position where Biden/Starmer is the only acceptable alternative at the moment. I think eventually the Labour Party and the Democratic Party will both split. It doesn't end well, but I can see why people on the left will get fed up with playing this game. I can see why they won't vote for Biden/Starmer. Unfortunately, it just finishes with off the fucking spectrum right wing loons in charge for longer.

 

 

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I was a Labour party member throughout Corbyn’s leadership but I left last week. If Starmer is still there in 5 years time then i’ll more than likely vote for Labour but i’m not interested in being a member and contributing financially to this version of it.

 

It simply doesn’t represent my views now. I don’t see how you can be anti-union and pro-privatisation as part of the Labour party.

 

If the choice is a Starmer-led Labour or the Tories then of course I want Starmer to win. A victory wouldn’t feel the same as it would do with a “proper” left Labour party, that’s just how I feel.

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12 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I don't think any of it is possible without addressing other aspects of life - the education system, the media, what we do in our free time, and the stuff you've mentioned. With all the will in the world a few years of a Labour party putting forward social democratic views for the first time in a decade and a half was never going to cut it. I'm surprised it got as close as it did in 2017. People have had decades of being convinced that they've climbed the ladder. "Tells it how it is" white van man from East Cuntington thinks him and Branson are on the same team.

 

I agree, Scotland has gone. I speak to some people on the left in Scotland and there simply isn't anything Labour could do to make them vote for them. They don't trust the party and they want out. I don't blame them, if I was Scottish I'd vote for independence.

 

Sadly, I think Brexit/Trump etc is just the natural progression from the result of decades of neoliberalism. Things had gone shitter and shitter and it was the only protest in town, Murdoch et al put pay to the one on the other side of the argument. So yeah, maybe we're stuck in a position where Biden/Starmer is the only acceptable alternative at the moment. I think eventually the Labour Party and the Democratic Party will both split. It doesn't end well, but I can see why people on the left will get fed up with playing this game. I can see why they won't vote for Biden/Starmer. Unfortunately, it just finishes with off the fucking spectrum right wing loons in charge for longer.

 

 

I just don’t see how Labour can win an election in our lifetime based on the situation in Scotland.

 

The best they can hope for is a coalition with the SNP.

 

If Scotland votes for independence then we’re destined to a lifetime of Tory rule.

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9 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I just don’t see how Labour can win an election in our lifetime based on the situation in Scotland.

 

The best they can hope for is a coalition with the SNP.

 

If Scotland votes for independence then we’re destined to a lifetime of Tory rule.

I'm not quite as pessimistic because I don't believe the "you get more right wing as you get older" thing. I think that was generational, millenials aren't going to have anything to conserve. Things could look very different in 10 years. Especially as the use of media will presumably be very different.

 

I do agree that the next election looks incredibly unlikely to be won by Labour.

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5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I'm not quite as pessimistic because I don't believe the "you get more right wing as you get older" thing. I think that was generational, millenials aren't going to have anything to conserve. Things could look very different in 10 years. Especially as the use of media will presumably be very different.

 

I do agree that the next election looks incredibly unlikely to be won by Labour.

A lot of young people think in exactly the same way as their parents.  They've been brought up in a household where mum and dad have been telling them that Muslamic rayguns will destroy the world.  An awful lot of them are just as twattish as their parents.  

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8 minutes ago, TK421 said:

A lot of young people think in exactly the same way as their parents.  They've been brought up in a household where mum and dad have been telling them that Muslamic rayguns will destroy the world.  An awful lot of them are just as twattish as their parents.  

They might well do, but unless their parents die in their 60s, and leave everything to their kids, they're not going to have a pot to piss in. Which can concentrate the mind.

 

Obviously some of them will continue to believe that it's one legged transexual Romanian muslims on the dole that are stealing their jobs.

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3 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

They might well do, but unless their parents die in their 60s, and leave everything to their kids, they're not going to have a pot to piss in. Which can concentrate the mind.

 

Obviously some of them will continue to believe that it's one legged transexual Romanian muslims on the dole that are stealing their jobs.

I hope you are right, of course. I just look at a generation who struggle to make ends meet and get on the housing ladder, who then voted for Brexit to make it harder for themselves to make ends meet and buy a house, then did it again by voting for Boris over Corbyn and so on.  And now we have a pandemic which is killing healthy people of all ages and I keep reading that the government's approval ratings are at an all time high. So in addition to economic self-harm they are cool with being killed, too.   

 

The margin of victory for the Tories at the last election indicates to me that their policies chime with all generations from the youngest to oldest. 

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41 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I was a Labour party member throughout Corbyn’s leadership but I left last week. If Starmer is still there in 5 years time then i’ll more than likely vote for Labour but i’m not interested in being a member and contributing financially to this version of it.

 

It simply doesn’t represent my views now. I don’t see how you can be anti-union and pro-privatisation as part of the Labour party.

 

If the choice is a Starmer-led Labour or the Tories then of course I want Starmer to win. A victory wouldn’t feel the same as it would do with a “proper” left Labour party, that’s just how I feel.

What makes you think starmer is anti union or pro privatisation mate? Wasn't he a big backer or the Shrewsbury workers and the striking miners? Most of his early legal work was pro bono and legal aid apparently too. 

 

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4 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I hope you are right, of course. I just look at a generation who struggle to make ends meet and get on the housing ladder, who then voted for Brexit to make it harder for themselves to make ends meet and buy a house, then did it again by voting for Boris over Corbyn and so on.  And now we have a pandemic which is killing healthy people of all ages and I keep reading that the government's approval ratings are at an all time high. So in addition to economic self-harm they are cool with being killed, too.   

 

The margin of victory for the Tories at the last election indicates to me that their policies chime with all generations from the youngest to oldest. 

Those votes are explained by a combination of fear and protest.

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People vote how the media tells them too. Brexit myths are still being peddled as the truth because the propaganda campaign was far more successful than than the facts being presented. Just look at all the shit Boris Johnson has done compared to how he is portrayed by the media. 

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1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

What makes you think starmer is anti union or pro privatisation mate? Wasn't he a big backer or the Shrewsbury workers and the striking miners? Most of his early legal work was pro bono and legal aid apparently too. 

 

I wasn’t referring to him specifically mate, just the likes of MP’s and supporters who had voluntarily removed themselves from the scene under Corbyn but are now flocking back.

 

Smoke, fire and all that jazz.

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Absolute best any Labour leader can hope for is a hung parliament. I don’t care who the leader is, they’re not winning back Scotland and without Scotland they won’t get a majority. 
 

Scotland is about 40-45% SNP which won’t change as it’s tied into the independence movement and maybe 25-30% Tory/right wing voters. Slim pickings scrapping for what’s left with the Lib Dems  and Greens. 

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6 hours ago, Sugar Ape said:


Well it’s early days in seeing how MPs are going to react to him but leaking that reports days after he becomes leader and he’s trying to deal with a once in a century pandemic isn’t the best of starts. I’d imagine the atmosphere isn’t the best amongst Labour MPs at the moment. 

When is it ever? Hopelessly divided party with absolutely no chance whatsoever of power imo. The Tories really do have to just turn up to win.

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16 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

When is it ever? Hopelessly divided party with absolutely no chance whatsoever of power imo. The Tories really do have to just turn up to win.

A bit harsh on the lib-dems that is!

I dont think Labour is split,more apathetic than anything.

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4 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Seriously? The party is absolutely toxic, it’s tearing itself apart.

When routine bites hard 

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42 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Absolutely not

The problem Labour has is that it allows almost anybody within its ranks and it shouldnt. Then any time there is even a word spoken out of turn its all over the tory run press as the party is falling apart and then millions believe this. This is and has always been the problem. If you are a closed shop like the tories and run the media then you can say whatever you want and it hardly gets spun as anything more than a 'difference of opinion' and people never see anything wrong. This will never change.

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6 hours ago, Brownie said:

I was a Labour party member throughout Corbyn’s leadership but I left last week. If Starmer is still there in 5 years time then i’ll more than likely vote for Labour but i’m not interested in being a member and contributing financially to this version of it.

 

It simply doesn’t represent my views now. I don’t see how you can be anti-union and pro-privatisation as part of the Labour party.

 

If the choice is a Starmer-led Labour or the Tories then of course I want Starmer to win. A victory wouldn’t feel the same as it would do with a “proper” left Labour party, that’s just how I feel.

I just don't agree with this. I know Rebecca Long Bailey helped to sell off parts of the NHS but she was the Corbyn backed and heavily defeated. 

Who else are you referring too?

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7 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Have the Lib Dem’s just finally given up? They may as well. 

Could say the same for Labour in fairness, 15 years now since they won an election and they are becoming more irrelevant with every passing year, to say that they have it all to do is the understatement of the century, they are a fucking shambles, they are getting fucking cremated by some of the worst political leaders ever seen. They really need to sort their shit.

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