Racism

[Scooby Dudek]

I don't believe in the U.K. the officer would have been armed, so would have to deal with it differently. 

No idea of statistics when police turn up at knife fights if the person with the knife dies and/or kills the other person. Interesting to see U.K. compared to U S.

The genie is out of the bottle in the States, they shoot first, it seems irrespective of the situation and that is the issue. This instance and outcry is due to the numerous previous instances, so the instinct is to go with black person killed by white cop outrage. If it was rare people would look at it more open minded. It is unfortunately not rare so the initial outrage is understandable.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

36 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't get what part you're struggling with mate. Watch the video. He had a second before she likely killed the other girl. As much as the dead girls family and friends are upset and angry, the alive girls family & friends will be thanking god. It's great being humane and thinking the world is all butterflies and cordial but the reality is it isn't and cunts going round stabbing people with big blades choose the world they wish to live in. Yes of course ideally she wasn't killed but stopped some other way but the cop did his job. 

I'm not struggling with anything. 

 

As a general principle, lethal force should only be used when absolutely no other option would save lives. You're saying that condition applied in this specific case. You may be right. (I'm not going to pore over footage of a person dying, just for the sake of a forum discussion. )  

[Bjornebye]

7 minutes ago, PrivateParts said:

I'm not struggling with anything. 

 

As a general principle, lethal force should only be used when absolutely no other option would save lives. You're saying that condition applied in this specific case. You may be right. (I'm not going to pore over footage of a person dying, just for the sake of a forum discussion. )  

I understand why you wouldn't want to watch it mate. That said, if you haven't seen it then you haven't really got a clue what you're talking about in this instance (Its a bit like debating with Tony about wether or not Thiago had a good game then finding out he only followed the match on teletext).

 

He had a choice but failure to make the choice he did take would have very likely resulted in a girl getting stabbed to death. 

[Anubis]

Two girls dancing The Mamushka and some cunt shows up and shoots one of them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

17 hours ago, PrivateParts said:

Thank fuck I don't live in that barbaric shithole of a country. 

 

There's a Far Side cartoon of someone doing an exam for their veterinary degree and the Horses paper is easiest because the answer to everything  (broken leg, hernia, toothache...) is "shoot".

 

The "black people" paper of the US Police exam must be a piece of piss.

I  stand by this bit.

 

16 hours ago, PrivateParts said:

The point is, there are options short of firing kill-shots which would have been effective, decisive action to end that fight. 

I'll ced3 this point. In this specific instance, I'll defer to you lot who have watched the video more than once: it may be that options short of killing her would not have worked this time.

 

1 hour ago, PrivateParts said:

The bar is: is this action the only way to prevent loss of innocent life.

I definitely stand by this point. 

[Davelfc]

In the UK an armed response could have attended and I am pretty sure considering the speed of it all, the assailant with the knife would have been shot. 

 

In the footage I watched any delay would IMO have likely caused the person being attacked to have been killed. Nobody enjoys seeing people getting shot but that officer almost certainly saved a persons life there. Had that officer been slightly late you could have been looking at 2 people having been stabbed. 

 

As someone that was an armed officer for many years, I can't see how there was any other way to avoid the assailant stabbing the other person in that case other than by shooting them.

 

We were told on day one that our primary role was to preserve life, that officer may have unfortunately had to take a life in order to do that but he was doing what he was trained to do. 

 

I have had a solider pull a knife on me, luckily he didn't come at me and I was able to de-escalate the situation without having to resort to other force. I was lucky that day. 

 

Oh and you cannot take the guns off the police because almost every citizen has the right to bear arms. Good luck getting their guns off them. 

[A Red]

What should have happened in the perfect world, is that a committee should have been formed in order to decide whether shooting was appropriate before the officer pulls the trigger. Obviously full transparent elections should take place prior to appointing the committee members and the first convening of the committee to decide on areas of responsibility. Following beer and sandwiches and a rendition of the Red Flag an indicative response should be given.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, A Red said:

What should have happened in the perfect world, is that a committee should have been formed in order to decide whether shooting was appropriate before the officer pulls the trigger. Obviously full transparent elections should take place prior to appointing the committee members and the first convening of the committee to decide on areas of responsibility. Following beer and sandwiches and a rendition of the Red Flag an indicative response should be given.

"Right where were we?"

"You were about to stab me" 

[Bjornebye]

Talk about topical

 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

2 hours ago, Poster said:

In the UK an armed response could have attended and I am pretty sure considering the speed of it all, the assailant with the knife would have been shot. 

 

In the footage I watched any delay would IMO have likely caused the person being attacked to have been killed. Nobody enjoys seeing people getting shot but that officer almost certainly saved a persons life there. Had that officer been slightly late you could have been looking at 2 people having been stabbed. 

 

As someone that was an armed officer for many years, I can't see how there was any other way to avoid the assailant stabbing the other person in that case other than by shooting them.

 

We were told on day one that our primary role was to preserve life, that officer may have unfortunately had to take a life in order to do that but he was doing what he was trained to do. 

 

I have had a solider pull a knife on me, luckily he didn't come at me and I was able to de-escalate the situation without having to resort to other force. I was lucky that day. 

 

Oh and you cannot take the guns off the police because almost every citizen has the right to bear arms. Good luck getting their guns off them. 

What’s your view on the ‘shoot them in the legs’ argument? 

[Davelfc]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

What’s your view on the ‘shoot them in the legs’ argument? 

They don't train to maim, they train to kill. A person could pull a gun even if shot in the leg. You have police shooting to maim and you get a lot more dead policemen. 

 

On that situation, it would have taken very very quick thinking for that officer to have shot that women in the leg, she was moving fast and stray bullets that fly through legs go on and kill people. He did the right thing but unfortunately someone died. 

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

21 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

My comment was re this sneaky feeling:

 

I have a sneaky feeling the guilty verdict had to be delivered to save the city from burning to the ground.

It doesnt mean I think he was innocent but I do think there is always the chance of pressure being applied and then a back channel deal for a lighter sentence. Everything is politics regardless of facts.

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

It doesnt mean I think he was innocent but I do think there is always the chance of pressure being applied and then a back channel deal for a lighter sentence. Everything is politics regardless of facts.

Who applied the pressure and to whom? You do understand there are minimum sentences for each charge.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

What should have happened in the perfect world, is that a committee should have been formed in order to decide whether shooting was appropriate before the officer pulls the trigger. Obviously full transparent elections should take place prior to appointing the committee members and the first convening of the committee to decide on areas of responsibility. Following beer and sandwiches and a rendition of the Red Flag an indicative response should be given.

It's funny, because it's parodying a point 5hat literally nobody was making.

[Mudface]

Jesus, this is grim- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/24/ivy-league-universities-bones-black-children-move-philadelphia

 

Ivy League colleges urged to apologise for using bones of Black children in teaching
Bones of children who died in 1985 police bombing used in anthropology course – but some bones now appear to be missing


Two Ivy League institutions, the University of Pennsylvania and Princeton, are facing mounting demands to apologise and make restitution for their handling over decades of the bones of African American children killed by Philadelphia police in 1985.
As calls pour in for action to be taken over the use of the children’s remains as props in an online Princeton anthropology course – without permission from parents of the dead children – there is also rising concern about the whereabouts of the bones.

Fragments belonging to one or possibly two Black children have been held by the universities for 36 years, but now appear to have gone missing.

They are currently in use as a “case study” in an online forensic anthropology course fronted by Princeton that is openly available on the internet. The bones are shown on camera as teaching tools – without the blessing of relatives who were unaware their loved ones’ remains were harboured in academic collections.

The course, Real Bones: Adventures in Forensic Anthropology, is presented by Prof Janet Monge, an expert on bone collections who is on faculty at both Princeton and Penn. On video, she holds up the pelvis and femur of a girl whose remains were collected from the ashes of the 13 May 1985 police bombing of the headquarters of Move, a Philadelphia-based black liberation and back-to-nature group.

Eleven group members died in the fire, including five children.

As calls grew from present-day Move members, Philadelphia politicians and academics for the institutions to be held accountable, Princeton eventually responded. It said it had only become aware of the controversy surrounding the class, distributed on the platform Coursera, on Wednesday but late on Friday the institution announced that it had decided to suspend the course.

“We are in the process of gathering and understanding all of the related facts, and out of respect for the victims of the Move bombing and their families we have suspended the online course,” Michael Hotchkiss, a Princeton spokesperson said.

But that is unlikely to satisfy those affected by the revelations. “There needs to be a full investigation and disclosure from all parties involved,” said Michael Africa Jr, a Move member who was six at the time of the bombing.

“We want a formal and public apology from Penn, Princeton and any of the anthropologists involved, and we want reparations – there has got to be some kind of restitution for this insanity.”

Move, in alliance with the Philadelphia branch of Black Lives Matter, will stage a rally on 28 April outside Penn Museum, the part of University of Pennsylvania where the children’s bones were kept for years in a cardboard box. A number of demands will be made, including that the bones are returned to relatives.

That might be easier said than done, given that the location of the fragments is a mystery. The University of Pennsylvania told the Guardian the bones had been handed to Princeton. Princeton told the Guardian it did not have any such remains.

“We need the bones to be returned so that we can lay them to rest,” Africa Jr said.

Jamie Gauthier, the Democratic council member who represents the area of Philadelphia devastated by the bombing, said the inability to find the remains was unacceptable.

“We need to find them and give them back so that they can be properly buried,” she said.

Gauthier played a key role in moving the city council last year to make a formal apology for the 1985 bombing, in which C4 plastic explosives were dropped by police helicopter on the Move house, igniting a massive fire. As part of the apology, 13 May has been declared a day of remembrance.

The council member said she was “disgusted” to learn the two Ivy League colleges had held the bones for decades without permission.

“It shows enormous disrespect for Black life and for a child or children who were murdered by their own government,” she said. “They suffered such trauma in life, and then even in death these institutions couldn’t find it within themselves to see them as human. That’s the only way I can understand this, because you only treat someone’s remains like this if you see them as ‘other’.”

Among the growing calls are demands for reparations or restitution for the Move family. The idea was floated this week by Abdul-Aliy Muhammad, an organiser from West Philadelphia writing in the Philadelphia Inquirer. Gauthier backed the demand.

“The universities used the remains of the Move children to grow their own research and platform,” she said, “and they need to compensate the family for that.”
The furore comes at a sensitive time for academic institutions, especially Penn, which last week apologised for its museum’s “unethical possession of human remains” in its Samuel Morton Cranial collection. The 19th-century collection, used by Morton to justify theories of white supremacy, included the remains of Black Philadelphians and 53 crania of enslaved people from Cuba and the US which will now be repatriated or reburied.

Paul Wolff Mitchell, a PhD candidate in anthropology at Penn who has researched the Morton collection and who participates in student activism around redressing the historical harm inflicted on Black communities by scientific practices, pointed out that the first public protest outside Penn Museum was organised as recently as 8 April in relation to the Morton collection.

“As a result of the discovery of the retention of these Move remains, and their use as a case study in an anthropology course, I’m certain that this first ever protest will not be the last,” Mitchell said.

[Rico1304]

 

[TheHowieLama]

Yesterdays' news.

 

An unarmed man was shot by a Virginia sheriff's deputy about an hour after the same deputy gave the man a ride home, Virginia State Police.

 

Brown was "on the phone with 911 at the time of the shooting and the officer mistook a cordless house phone for a gun."

"The deputy was situated nearly 50 feet from Isaiah, was never threatened and should not have discharged his weapon."

 

 

The dispatcher asks Brown whether he has a gun, to which he says both yes and no, according to the transcript of the call that accompanied the sheriff's office video. Moments later Brown tells the dispatcher he is outside, walking down the road, when sirens are heard in the background.

"You need to hold your hands up," the dispatcher tells Brown. "Hold your hands up ... Isaiah, are you holding your hands up?"

The deputy's body camera was not pointed at Brown but shows a deputy arriving to find Brown in the roadway. The deputy gets out of the vehicle and repeatedly orders Brown to show his hands and to "drop the gun."

"He's got a gun to his head," the deputy says.

 

So in this instance it appears the cop shot him because he thought he was going to shoot himself.

 

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yesterdays' news.

 

An unarmed man was shot by a Virginia sheriff's deputy about an hour after the same deputy gave the man a ride home, Virginia State Police.

 

Brown was "on the phone with 911 at the time of the shooting and the officer mistook a cordless house phone for a gun."

"The deputy was situated nearly 50 feet from Isaiah, was never threatened and should not have discharged his weapon."

 

 

The dispatcher asks Brown whether he has a gun, to which he says both yes and no, according to the transcript of the call that accompanied the sheriff's office video. Moments later Brown tells the dispatcher he is outside, walking down the road, when sirens are heard in the background.

"You need to hold your hands up," the dispatcher tells Brown. "Hold your hands up ... Isaiah, are you holding your hands up?"

The deputy's body camera was not pointed at Brown but shows a deputy arriving to find Brown in the roadway. The deputy gets out of the vehicle and repeatedly orders Brown to show his hands and to "drop the gun."

"He's got a gun to his head," the deputy says.

 

So in this instance it appears the cop shot him because he thought he was going to shoot himself.

 

Was the victim white or black?

[skend04]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yesterdays' news.

 

An unarmed man was shot by a Virginia sheriff's deputy about an hour after the same deputy gave the man a ride home, Virginia State Police.

 

Brown was "on the phone with 911 at the time of the shooting and the officer mistook a cordless house phone for a gun."

"The deputy was situated nearly 50 feet from Isaiah, was never threatened and should not have discharged his weapon."

 

 

The dispatcher asks Brown whether he has a gun, to which he says both yes and no, according to the transcript of the call that accompanied the sheriff's office video. Moments later Brown tells the dispatcher he is outside, walking down the road, when sirens are heard in the background.

"You need to hold your hands up," the dispatcher tells Brown. "Hold your hands up ... Isaiah, are you holding your hands up?"

The deputy's body camera was not pointed at Brown but shows a deputy arriving to find Brown in the roadway. The deputy gets out of the vehicle and repeatedly orders Brown to show his hands and to "drop the gun."

"He's got a gun to his head," the deputy says.

 

So in this instance it appears the cop shot him because he thought he was going to shoot himself.

 

Shot 10 times. Black people aren't even allowed to commit suicide with a mobile phone now. 

[Leyton388]

American cops are fucking idiots. They can't police they just shoot first ask questions later. I remember seeing this one video where this guy is on a hotel and is ordered to the floor at gunpoint by police.

 

He has no weapon on him, and his shorts are falling down as he's moving on the floor and pulls them up and thr cop shoots him. 

 

Only a matter of time before copa,start getting killed over there by some vigilante group. 

[SasaS]

17 minutes ago, Leyton388 said:

American cops are fucking idiots. They can't police they just shoot first ask questions later. I remember seeing this one video where this guy is on a hotel and is ordered to the floor at gunpoint by police.

 

He has no weapon on him, and his shorts are falling down as he's moving on the floor and pulls them up and thr cop shoots him. 

 

Only a matter of time before copa,start getting killed over there by some vigilante group. 

They have been killed by vigilantes.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 24/04/2021 at 13:37, Mudface said:

Jesus, this is grim- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/24/ivy-league-universities-bones-black-children-move-philadelphia

 

 

 

Also grim that US Police committed a massacre like that and it's not widely known.

[SasaS]

Osage Avenue bombing is not exactly unknown.

[Mudface]

38 minutes ago, PrivateParts said:

Also grim that US Police committed a massacre like that and it's not widely known.

I know, I first read about it last year I think in this article- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia

 

Absolutely astonishing what they did.

[Bjornebye]

9 minutes ago, Mudface said:

I know, I first read about it last year I think in this article- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia

 

Absolutely astonishing what they did.

Fucking hell. I vaguely knew about it but I’ve just read that article. Not even letting the fire brigade in. Absolute cunts