Top four - is it too late?

[mypost]

What is this shit?

 

You still don't get it. The idea of making confident predictions and going against the grain is only wise if you have factored in such possible events, in fact such easily possible mundane predictable events knowing anything about football and Roy Hodgson. Thats the skill of making a prediction, getting it correct not explaining it away.

 

We were in a position to launch a bid for the top 4 after beating Villa. Then we had two games postponed, and lost 3 others. In that time, we've lost a lot of ground to the Top 4, and it'll be very difficult to recover.

 

Or the inevitable loss away to Blackpool, the loss at home in the derby, and the loss away to Wolves as well, followed by a famous point at home against Fulham would have done for him.

 

Possibly the Blackpool and Northampton results had something to do with it too. Possibly not achieving Utopia at Goodison, as well.

 

What are you on about now?

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

I'll field this one, Dennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis tooth

What is this shit?

 

You still don't get it. The idea of making confident predictions and going against the grain is only wise if you have factored in such possible events, in fact such easily possible mundane predictable events knowing anything about football and Roy Hodgson. Thats the skill of making a prediction, getting it correct not explaining it away.

We were in a position to launch a bid for the top 4 after beating Villa. Then we had two games postponed, and lost 3 others. In that time, we've lost a lot of ground to the Top 4, and it'll be very difficult to recover. (because of your man)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza66

Or the inevitable loss away to Blackpool, the loss at home in the derby, and the loss away to Wolves as well, followed by a famous point at home against Fulham would have done for him.

 

Possibly the Blackpool and Northampton results had something to do with it too. Possibly not achieving Utopia at Goodison, as well.

What are you on about now?

What would have happened had FSG listened to you and kept your man in charge. Sadly, he's gone, and all we have is an "ambassador" in charge (yes, your words and you used quotation marks to emphasise what you thought of him).

[Bourkey]

As our old buddy Michael Corleone used to say

 

"If anything in life is certain,

if history has thought us anything it is that you can ..."

 

Roy thought we were a top ten team that might finish eight

I dont think Kenny took on the job to finish sixth.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

As our old buddy Michael Corleone used to say

 

"If anything in life is certain,

if history has thought us anything it is that you can ..."

 

Roy thought we were a top ten team that might finish eight

I dont think Kenny took on the job to finish sixth.

 

exactly!

[mypost]

What would have happened had FSG listened to you and kept your man in charge. Sadly, he's gone, and all we have is an "ambassador" in charge

 

What would have happened? How long is a piece of string?

 

Until the last two league defeats, Roy was safe. The two games, and the manner of the defeats changed the situation entirely. Even I lost belief in him, and admitted it the morning after the Blackburn game.

 

We still have a poor squad of players, and Roy's not the only reason we are where we are. Kenny has to work with the same players, and get 11 points out of them just to challenge for a Top 4 spot, never mind get one.

 

There's a massive difference between 3 points behind with a quarter of the year gone, and 11 points behind with half it left. I think that's fairly obvious.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

What would have happened? How long is a piece of string?

 

Until the last two league defeats, Roy was safe. The two games, and the manner of the defeats changed the situation entirely. Even I lost belief in him, and admitted it the morning after the Blackburn game.

 

We still have a poor squad of players, and Roy's not the only reason we are where we are. Kenny has to work with the same players, and get 11 points out of them just to challenge for a Top 4 spot, never mind get one.

 

There's a massive difference between 3 points behind with a quarter of the year gone, and 11 points behind with half it left. I think that's fairly obvious.

 

Point is: it was all the shite he served up, that was dressed up as fillet mignon by his apologists even before the last two defeats, that did for him. How long is a piece of string? If it's attached to the straw on the camel's back then it's a case of 'how heavy is it?'.

[VladimirIlyich]

No chance whatsoever with the current squad. If we can sign at least two first teamers in January it may be possible.

 

Good post!

But with Kenny in charge and those 2 or 3 signings you just never know!

 

I think the key is to start scoring goals,3's or 4's rather than 1's or 2's is paramount.

Goal difference is also very important and starting with a minus goal difference half way through the season is far from ideal.

[House of Dirk]

I voted no, on the basis that we have left ourselves too much to do.

 

That said, at least we are now in a position to make a fist of it, if we go on any sort of run that we have been/are capable of doing, given that most teams in the division are taking points off each other, and with a couple of quality additions to the squad. The return of the King will give the necessary boost to those underperforming and perhaps we will see something other than potential in those that quite havent delivered yet.

 

If we can finish in the top 6, with a decent showing in the Europa League, all things considered, that would be a good result from a car crash of a season.

[burnslfc]

Unless we get in 2 or 3 quailty players that will make the 1st xi better then we have no chance as we cannot win 3 games on the bounce with this lot.They are just not good enough.I hope iam wrong but i doubt it.

[RazorBack]

I don't think it's too late but I honestly don't expect a miracle from Kenny and our players either. So it's possible but highly unlikely..

[William_Ulsterman]

We did it in 04 with 60pts - 4 ahead of the Geordies in 5th

 

Everton did it in 05 with 61pts - 3 ahead of us in 5th

 

Arsenal did it in 06 with 67pts - 2 ahead of Spurs in 5th

 

Arsenal did it in 07 with 68pts - 2 ahead of 5th

 

We finished in 4th in 08 with 76pts - 11 ahead of 5th

 

Arsenal did it 09 with 72pts - 9 ahead of Everton

 

Spurs did last year with 70 - 3 ahead of Citeh in 5th

 

That's an average of 68 points. So it's safe to say 70 points is the target if we are to take 4th spot. There is 54 more points to play for, and we'd need to take 45 of those to get 70 points, as we are on 25. Tall order!

 

We have to not look at the table any more and just tally our own points.

 

the stats are strong but the league this year is so different. so many teams dropping alot more points. i dont think it will take anywhere near 68 to make 4th this year.

[Royal Family]

I honestly think that we need to worry more about relegation than our prospects of making the top four given where we are now and the nosedive in our collective confidence. What i fear is that too many of our fans still refuse to accept how rapidly we have declined from the high tide of 2007 - too many of us hid behind rafa and are now hiding behind kenny with unrealistic expectations and a blind refusal to acknowledge just how poor elements of our squad are.

Sorry to strike a negative tone, but i really think there's a danger of placing unrealistic expectations upon kenny (with the result of 'blaming him' when we fail to meet them).

[Guest PurpleNose]

It probably is too late. Not because the squad isn't good enough to finish top four, but because of how fucking shit Hodgson had us playing for the first half of the season, and how far behind we now are.

 

At the start of the season I'd have had confidence in Kenny getting us into the top four with this squad, possibly even with Roy's signings, and also without the knowledge that the whole league would be so rubbish this season.

 

At the very worst, we have the 6th best squad in the league, and thats about where we'll finish I believe.

 

Its a fucking nonsense to suggest the squad is complete shit, as shit as its being made out. Its littered with Dutch, Brazilian, Spanish, and Portuguese internationals. We lack a very solid fullback, ideally one who can play either side, like Arbeloa. We also have no genuine wingers, players with pace who can beat a man. We're also short of top quality depth upfront. I still think we have a decent squad though. Best keeper in the league, two of the best central attacking players in Gerrard and Torres. Good, and largely underrated, central defenders and central midfielders.

 

Three or four astute signings can change this squad into one that will challenge for the title next season.

[captainharris]

I think top four is pretty much out of reach. Having a look at the fixtures between now and the end of the season I think we'll be lucky to get over 60 points.

 

Considering last season we managed 63 points and finished 7th - we would have needed over 70 points to make the top 4 last season. I think we're just too far out of reach.

[Code]

04/05:

4th: 61p

5th: 58p

 

05/06:

4th: 67p

5th: 65p

 

06/07:

4th: 68p

5th: 60p

 

07/08:

4th: 76p

5th: 65p

 

08/09:

4th: 72p

5th: 63p

 

09/10:

4th: 70p

5th: 67p

[piscinin]

the stats are strong but the league this year is so different. so many teams dropping alot more points. i dont think it will take anywhere near 68 to make 4th this year.

 

The way things are going it will take 65 points and that assumes Chelsea perform in the 2nd half of the season they way they did the 1st. Can't see that happening.

[dennis tooth]

What would have happened? How long is a piece of string?

 

Until the last two league defeats, Roy was safe. The two games, and the manner of the defeats changed the situation entirely. Even I lost belief in him, and admitted it the morning after the Blackburn game.

 

We still have a poor squad of players, and Roy's not the only reason we are where we are. Kenny has to work with the same players, and get 11 points out of them just to challenge for a Top 4 spot, never mind get one.

 

There's a massive difference between 3 points behind with a quarter of the year gone, and 11 points behind with half it left. I think that's fairly obvious.

 

He is mate. Mourinho won the CL with a piss poor squad and will be a success wherever he goes. Holloway has a 2nd/1st division team.

Good managers make good teams, yes even with poor players. Now let's reverse it to prove the point, how many class teams on paper have a poor season? Answer is a lot, especially if they have a poor manager, it happens every season, some team blows loads on players and does shit. Players aren't half as important as the manager unless you are playing on a computer game, any retard knows that.

 

Third point to consider is Roy's track record, the fans never would have accepted him unless he hit the ground running and got the results to show his track record wasn't a reliable indicator. That he could buck a trend of mediocracy. He was never capable of hitting the ground running as I confidently told everyone on here the day he was appointed. Citing 1 game we lost as a reason he lost his job, is desperate, 2 games and you're re-entering the orbit of delusion where you'll feel the heat of re-entry. Roy was never safe, the fans never accepted him, he was never able to win them over and he was never going to compete with even the Alex McCleishes or Steve Bruces of this world never mind the Wenger's and Fergusons. He never even grasped the job never mind fulfilled it, he never understood he was expected to win a lot of games, back to back, away/home

he never even tried to set out to win, we only accept the best here so to say Roy was safe is just nonsense, based on reading articles from a reactive media, it's not like you actually 'know' anything as the media didn't know anything as should be the liverpool way.

It was never going to work, I said he was, more than anything a waste of time who we will have to sack sooner or later and then recover from the damage.

You were both wrong again in asserting Roy was safe (Even if you add the word 'until' which doesn't make sense. Every manager is safe by that logic, 'until' they are sacked of course.) You knew nothing to judge that and it was a foolhardy attempt to again, make out you have or had access to a peice of truth that the rest of us cannot obtain. Your judgement is useless, you should take my advice and work on it or stubbornly carry on talking such shite, if not, I'll be back in 6months to gloat about the ambassador, wherein you can tell me Dalglish was never going to be a success, until he won all those games. Only safe manager is Ferguson.

 

The length of a peice of string is twice the length from the middle to one end so ergo, history should be used as a guide. Roy's history shows failure when working with anything above average sets of players. I said it, others said it and only the deluded and brainwashed, media obsessed romantics felt differently.

 

You need to understand that the most important person at any club is the manager. That's the end of it.

[Monster Masch]

We'd need to get roughly 40 points from the 54 available. Yikes!

 

12 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats.

[The Golden Eel]

77 people think we can still make - I'm astonished by that tbh. Things will improve but it can certianly be nothing other than blind faith to think we can finish above 2 of United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Spurs.

[mypost]

Good managers make good teams, yes even with poor players. Now let's reverse it to prove the point, how many class teams on paper have a poor season? Answer is a lot, especially if they have a poor manager, it happens every season, some team blows loads on players and does shit. Players aren't half as important as the manager unless you are playing on a computer game, any retard knows that.

 

Third point to consider is Roy's track record, the fans never would have accepted him unless he hit the ground running and got the results to show his track record wasn't a reliable indicator. That he could buck a trend of mediocracy. He was never capable of hitting the ground running as I confidently told everyone on here the day he was appointed. Citing 1 game we lost as a reason he lost his job, is desperate, 2 games and you're re-entering the orbit of delusion where you'll feel the heat of re-entry. Roy was never safe, the fans never accepted him, he was never able to win them over and he was never going to compete with even the Alex McCleishes or Steve Bruces of this world never mind the Wenger's and Fergusons.

It was never going to work, I said he was, more than anything a waste of time who we will have to sack sooner or later and then recover from the damage.

 

You need to understand that the most important person at any club is the manager. That's the end of it.

 

The most important person at any club is the chairman. The coach works for him, not the other way around. With every coach sacked during the season, there is always a result that is the breaking point.

 

Here with Souness, it was the Bristol City result that began the process of removing him. With Evans, it was the Spurs result. With Roy, it was the Wolves and even more so, the Blackburn result, where everyone realised that urgent action was required, and therefore taken.

 

I'll be back in 6months to gloat about the ambassador

 

If so, we'll all be happy.

[Guest TK-421]

77 people think we can still make - I'm astonished by that tbh. Things will improve but it can certianly be nothing other than blind faith to think we can finish above 2 of United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Spurs.

 

If we win tonight it's 8 points. Would you give up on the title 8 points behind in January?

 

The question is "is it too late", not "do you think it's likely".

[FortressAnfield]

Most likely 6th/7th, but if we start winning and keep winning, we CAN do it.

 

I can remember 71-72 season. In early February we were 11th. Then we went on a tremendous run of about 9 or 10 wins in a row. We finished 3rd: behind Leeds on goal average, and 1 point behind champions Derby.

 

Of course we can do it! (But Torres must rediscover his form, and Gerrard must stay fit and unbanned once he comes back.)

[Aldonose]

First half tonight proves we are woefully short of attacking quality (particularly on the flanks). A couple of decent players in january is a must.

[stringvest]

I see Roy did a number on you.

 

Nope. Benitez.

[Son of L8]

The most important person at any club is the chairman.

 

... You really don't get this club, do you? I mean, not even a little bit.

 

You really haven't got the slightest fucking clue.