Feminism

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Incidentally, the phrase “This challenges the power base in society, and some people have deliberately misunderstood,”  can be applied to any sort of progressive change throughout the years.

[Rico1304]

Incidentally, the phrase “This challenges the power base in society, and some people have deliberately misunderstood,” [/size] can be applied to any sort of progressive change throughout the years.

Progressive change - what an interesting concept.

[Biscao]

OR you could just, you know, call a crime a crime. Whether it happens to a black guy, a woman or an irishman shouldn't really affect the sentencing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

OR you could just, you know, call a crime a crime. Whether it happens to a black guy, a woman or an irishman shouldn't really affect the sentencing.

#AllLivesMatter

 

#HowToMissThePoint

[Biscao]

#yawn

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Progressive change - what an interesting concept.

I'd say (off the top of my head) the minimum wage, the Human Rights Act and the Equality Act were all progressive changes which were "deliberately misunderstood"  because of the challenge they presented to established power.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

#yawn

Well, quite.

 

We've been through this and there's no point going around again.  There are vast areas of human experience that you are choosing to ignore (because they only affect losers who don't have an Audi).

[Biscao]

You're just looking for something to blame for your failings. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37278170

 

The theory that women get paid less than men because they are not sufficiently pushy in the workplace is not true, a new study suggests.

Women are as likely as men to ask for a pay rise - but are less likely to get one, the research found.

The study, by the Cass Business School and the universities of Warwick and Wisconsin, looked at 4,600 workers.

It found "no support" for the "reticent female" theory, whereby women avoided asking for more money.

For what it claimed was the first time, the study eliminated any impact from part-time workers earning less than their full-time counterparts, by comparing full-time males with full-time females, and part-time males with part-time females.

When like-for-like male and female workers were compared, men were 25% more likely to get a pay rise when they asked, the study found.

The research also concluded there was no evidence for the idea that women were reluctant to ask for a salary increase because they were more wary of upsetting their boss, or deviating from a perceived female stereotype.

When analysing the results, the researchers took into account the size of the employer and the industry, whether the workers were a parent, as well as their qualifications.

The study was based on data from the 2013-14 Australian workplace relations survey. Australia is thought to be the only country to systematically record whether employees had asked for a pay rise, and why they had or had not done so.

Andrew Oswald, professor of economics and behavioural science at the University of Warwick, said he was surprised by the findings.

"The fact that women don't ask for pay rises as often as men is a popular theory. It's a very common thing for women to say and believe, but all of the evidence is anecdotal, so it's very hard scientifically to do a proper test of this."

'Pure discrimination'

He said one possibility was that unsuccessful men who asked for a pay rise, but did not get it, kept it to themselves, while women "were more straightforward and tell their friends".

"Having seen these findings, I think we have to accept that there is some element of pure discrimination against women," Prof Oswald added.

"It could be that Australia is odd. But it's a modern industrial economy halfway in character between Britain and the US, so I think that's unlikely."

The study also found differences according to age, with women and men under 40 both asking for and receiving pay rises at the same rate, which the researchers said could mean that negotiating behaviour had started to change.

Dr Amanda Goodall from Cass Business School - part of City, University of London - and a co-author of the study, said: "The study potentially has an upside. Young women today are negotiating their pay and conditions more successfully than older females, and perhaps that will continue as they become more senior."

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37278170

 

The theory that women get paid less than men because they are not sufficiently pushy in the workplace is not true, a new study suggests.

Women are as likely as men to ask for a pay rise - but are less likely to get one, the research found.

The study, by the Cass Business School and the universities of Warwick and Wisconsin, looked at 4,600 workers.

It found "no support" for the "reticent female" theory, whereby women avoided asking for more money.

For what it claimed was the first time, the study eliminated any impact from part-time workers earning less than their full-time counterparts, by comparing full-time males with full-time females, and part-time males with part-time females.

When like-for-like male and female workers were compared, men were 25% more likely to get a pay rise when they asked, the study found.

The research also concluded there was no evidence for the idea that women were reluctant to ask for a salary increase because they were more wary of upsetting their boss, or deviating from a perceived female stereotype.

When analysing the results, the researchers took into account the size of the employer and the industry, whether the workers were a parent, as well as their qualifications.

The study was based on data from the 2013-14 Australian workplace relations survey. Australia is thought to be the only country to systematically record whether employees had asked for a pay rise, and why they had or had not done so.

Andrew Oswald, professor of economics and behavioural science at the University of Warwick, said he was surprised by the findings.

"The fact that women don't ask for pay rises as often as men is a popular theory. It's a very common thing for women to say and believe, but all of the evidence is anecdotal, so it's very hard scientifically to do a proper test of this."

'Pure discrimination'

He said one possibility was that unsuccessful men who asked for a pay rise, but did not get it, kept it to themselves, while women "were more straightforward and tell their friends".

"Having seen these findings, I think we have to accept that there is some element of pure discrimination against women," Prof Oswald added.

"It could be that Australia is odd. But it's a modern industrial economy halfway in character between Britain and the US, so I think that's unlikely."

The study also found differences according to age, with women and men under 40 both asking for and receiving pay rises at the same rate, which the researchers said could mean that negotiating behaviour had started to change.

Dr Amanda Goodall from Cass Business School - part of City, University of London - and a co-author of the study, said: "The study potentially has an upside. Young women today are negotiating their pay and conditions more successfully than older females, and perhaps that will continue as they become more senior."

 

Stop looking for answers when Biscao has provided them. Women just don't work as hard because babies and hormones and vaginas.

[Mook]

So women generally tell all their workmates after they've been refused a pay rise then?

 

Sounds about right.

[Pureblood]

More insults from the loony left brigade.  

[njackets]

The female did get promoted in my place, over the five blokes! They've been grooming her for a managment position for as long as I can remember.

 

The fact she decided to go sick everytime they gave her responsibility has been fucking it up, let's see how it turns out.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Viz Top Tip

 

Builders - Impress passing ladies with your PC credentials by shouting "Keep your tits in, if you like; it's your body".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

This could have gone into the US Election thread, the Trump thread or the UKIP thread, but I think it fits best here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lisa-clarke/if-nigel-farage-is-right-_b_12415002.html

 

Unless you have been living in a newsless vacuum for the last couple of days you are no doubt aware by now of the seemingly surprising revelation in the Donald Trump campaign trail. Namely the unearthing of a video that reveals Trump, in 2005 discussing the fact that he can do what he likes to women because he is famous. That he doesn’t have to control himself, doesn’t wait, but simply kisses them or “grabs them by the pussy”.

 

Reassuringly the majority of commentators seem to have accepted that that would be sexual assault. In fact even a significant number of Republican politicians seem to appreciated that fact, and have accepted now what many of us have been aware of for some time. That a Donald Trump presidency would be a danger to their daughters and wives; as well as to the people of colour, Mexican’s, Muslims and other minority groups we already knew he was a danger to.

 

Personally my fear of a Trump win has been growing for some time, alongside my fear of the growing hate across the world. The increase in membership of far right groups, the lack of a co-ordinated effort to help refugees (including abandoned and lone children), the increase in hate crime in the UK itself. But I have to accept that I am at least somewhat removed from the full throttle threat of Trump by the existence of the Atlantic Ocean.

 

 

What I am sadly nowhere near as removed from is the existence of Nigel Farage. Apparently the man is like a bad smell that you just can’t seem to shift. He keeps coming back. He has supported the Trump campaign throughout, the two seem very pally, and now he has defended Donald’s sexist and misogynistic languageas simply “alpha-male boasting”, as “the kind of thing, if we are being honest, that men do. They sit around and have a drink and they talk like this.” If this is true I appreciate his honesty, but I also expect an acknowledgement that we had better do something about it and fast.

 

Mr Farage, whether I like it or not is a popular man. A man seen inexplicably, as everyday, as a person who says what we are all thinking, who doesn’t mince his words. People like his honesty and the fact he doesn’t talk like most politicians. This man has a wide influence.

 

So is he right? Do most men advocate sexual assault, (we have already accepted that is what grabbing somebody “by the pussy” without consent is) in conversation, in locker rooms, pubs or wherever else they may gather without women?

I am not suggesting any naivety on my part, as a 42-year-old woman I have heard conversations like this. I know it happens, but just how common is it?

 

At a rock festival this year I overheard a man speaking to his peer group. I was in a queue for food and didn’t look up to see who the speaker was, but the man in question openly and loudly suggested that he was there “to get some under-age pussy”, just, he said, “like every bloke there”. Now I can’t help thinking if I was one of the blokes in question I might not want to be included in the lighthearted suggestion that I too was at Reading Festival, not for the music and holiday atmosphere, but for the promise of statutory rape. Yet none of this chap’s mates made any attempt to correct him.

 

Obviously it’s not the first time I’ve heard horrible things like this, but the reason I remember it so well is because it isn’t something I hear all of the time. Perhaps I am simply not listening, clearly I am not the intended audience. But if you’re telling me that it is so common can you not see why women have every right to be both angry and fearful of that fact?

 

As a woman when I hear a man write off sexual assault as normal I assume he is a danger to me. Had my 14 year old daughter been with me at that festival you can bet your life I would have looked up when I heard what I heard. I would want to take a mental picture of that man’s face, to label him as a predator, as somebody who was a danger to my daughter and her friends, as somebody to avoid.

 

If I hear a man normalise sexual assault, I at least suspect that this is to justify his own behaviour or that of other men he knows. I don’t assume all the men in the group who don’t speak out or who laugh along are also as dangerous, I cannot judge that, but I wonder if they know that their friend might be. I wonder at how many times they might have watched him shout obscenities at women in the street, how many times he might have manhandled women in bars or clubs, how often they’ve turned a blind eye to women’s protests or ignored their efforts to escape.

 

What annoys me most about these comments from Nigel Farage is that I know a lot of the people who will agree with him are the same people who are likely to be against feminism. The men and women that do not appreciate that sexism still exists, or accept that anything needs to change. Those who angrily retaliate to the lived experience of #yesallwomen with #notallmen. They appear not to understand or appreciate why women might be angry or feel the need to fight for a better, safer world for themselves or their daughters. These people angrily insist that most men are not a danger and yet when we hear this language used out in the open in this way, they acknowledge that it is commonplace and wonder at our surprise or naivety.

 

Nigel Farage and Donald Trump are not just any man in any private locker room, they are powerful men of influence who may be able to enforce law and who already influence our culture. When words like this are used and not acknowledged as being dangerous, women are put at greater risk. Risk of assault, of rape, of not being asked for consent and not being heard when they say no.

 

If you are saying this is commonplace then why do you not understand why we need change? Why are you not angry and fearful for the 50% of society put at risk by this attitude?

 

You are telling me that more men, not less, are happy to advocate sexually predatory behaviour? If so then you are telling me that my fear of sexual assault and rape all these years is a well founded fear, so why are you so angry and resistant when I share my own experiences and those of ALL of my female friends?

 

If Mr Farage is to be believed we have a very long way to go. If he is supported in this and heralded still, as a man of the people, then it seems we are getting further away from a society safe for women not closer to it.

 

It seems you know where we stand Mr Farage, and it is in a dangerous place. So why aren’t you fighting for something better? And if you don’t intend to then at the very least do not get in our way when we strive for a fairer and safer society where women will not need to be afraid simply because they are women.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

More brigades gone looney, to the left, to the left

[General Dryness]

The mistake that article makes is assuming that Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are examples of right thinking human beings.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The mistake that article makes is assuming that Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are examples of right thinking human beings.

They're both claiming to be.  They're both claiming that you, me and all other red-blooded males (poofters don't count, obviously) cheerily sexually assault women and applaud each other when we boast about it afterwards.

 

This is why it's important to call them out on their bullshit.  Gavin Esler was doing a good job on some Trump apologist on BBC News the other day, basically stressing the point that boasting about sexual assault is not normal, acceptable "locker room banter".

[cloggypop]

They are extreme right thinking human beings.

[General Dryness]

They're both claiming to be. They're both claiming that you, me and all other red-blooded males (poofters don't count, obviously) cheerily sexually assault women and applaud each other when we boast about it afterwards.

 

This is why it's important to call them out on their bullshit. Gavin Esler was doing a good job on some Trump apologist on BBC News the other day, basically stressing the point that boasting about sexual assault is not normal, acceptable "locker room banter".

America is fucked really.

 

Imagine having to choose between a sexual assault advocate and a rape enabler.

 

I just wouldn't vote, to be honest.

[Kevin D]

I just about got through how utterly preposterous it is to make a judgement on a person talking amongst his friends at a music festival, then to include that daft judgement in an article, but when she said she'd be taking a "mental picture" I just couldn't continue reading.

[Jairzinho]

Cunt picture.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I just about got through how utterly preposterous it is to make a judgement on a person talking amongst his friends at a music festival, then to include that daft judgement in an article, but when she said she'd be taking a "mental picture" I just couldn't continue reading.

I thought that was a crap comparison.  

 

I strongly suspect that the lad at the festival was doing that thing where you say something awful for a laugh - you joke about making sure you've got enough rufies for a night out, that sort of thing - but it's funny(ish) precisely because you and the people you're talking too know that it's not true and that if it were true, it would be appalling.  In contrast, what Trump was doing on the bus was boasting that he actually did stuff that any decent minded person would find appalling.

 

Ignoring the music festival anecdote, the main point she makes is valid: you can't brush Trump's boasts off as "oh, that's just what men do" because if that's true, then our society is rotten to the fucking core!  (Thankfully, I don't believe for a minute that it is true.)

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Beyonce?

Erm, the car she drivin'? SHE BOUGHT IT.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I could have posted this in any of the Trump/election threads, but I think it belongs here, because it's main theme is about why feminism is needed.