Coronavirus

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, 3 Stacks said:

 

What shouldn't have been touted is the adaptability of the mRNA vaccine because clearly you can't just change and produce a vaccine fast enough to deal with how fast the virus is mutating, and you also can't vaccinate everyone every time there is a change in the virus. That part of it was indeed massively overpromised. 

It really wasn't though -- all this is hindsight. Or as scientists call it "data."

[Bjornebye]

Just now, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

Yes really.

 

I only recently finished paying off the medical bills from my wife's Pfizer injury. It certainly didn't do her any good. I thankfully didn't have any side effects. She had covid before the jab and was barely sick. So what purpose did it serve her? I guess collateral damage is ok.

 

Anyhow I'm getting side tracked. Shutting down debate is not healthy. Posting shit memes and linking every injury to a vaccine is most unhealthy. 

Sorry about your missus mate but I can't recall it ever being sold as 100% effective. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Sorry about your missus mate but I can't recall it ever being sold as 100% effective. 

Not in the UK, at least.

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

Anyhow I'm getting side tracked. Shutting down debate is not healthy. Posting shit memes and linking every injury to a vaccine is most unhealthy. 

If anything the memes stimulate debate.  The last few pages of this thread have been quite interesting.

[ZonkoVille77]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

No vaccine is 100% effective so I have no idea who sold you that or why you bought it.

 

The right honourable Fauci and co. stated they were 100% effective at preventing deaths and hospitalizations. That's a fact.. I'm not going to link loads of articles where he or Pfizer or Moderna stated it, there's enough out there should a person be interested. I'm well aware no vaccine is 100% effective. Vaccinated people ended up in hospital. Vaccinated people died - totally against what Fauci, CDC, etc all said. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/vaccine-covid-fauci-deaths-b1808878.html

[Bjornebye]

Trump recommended bleach. 

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Sorry about your missus mate but I can't recall it ever being sold as 100% effective. 

They were all sold on the basis of being 100% effective.  The headline was repeated ad infinitum during the build up to and throughout the roll out.  People believed it and were conned. 

 

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

 

 

COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca confirms 100% protection against severe disease, hospitalisation and death in the primary analysis of Phase III trials

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/03/22/astrazeneca-vaccine-100-effective-in-preventing-severe-disease-and-hospitalizations-us-trials-show/

 

AstraZeneca Vaccine 100% Effective In Preventing Severe Disease And Hospitalizations, U.S. Trials Show

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

 

Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15

PUBLISHED WED, MAR 31 2021 6:45 AM EDT

 

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

 

Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

[ZonkoVille77]

10 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Sorry about your missus mate but I can't recall it ever being sold as 100% effective. 

 

 

It was sold like that everywhere. There are multiple examples for anyone interested in looking. Here in Ireland it was blasted all over the news. It was ultimately a lie. Now I'm not for one second suggesting they didn't offer some protection. But they haven't lived up to their reputation, at least in my eyes. 

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

The right honourable Fauci and co. stated they were 100% effective at preventing deaths and hospitalizations. That's a fact.. I'm not going to link loads of articles where he or Pfizer or Moderna stated it, there's enough out there should a person be interested. I'm well aware no vaccine is 100% effective. Vaccinated people ended up in hospital. Vaccinated people died - totally against what Fauci, CDC, etc all said. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/vaccine-covid-fauci-deaths-b1808878.html

Read what he actually said. 

 

Doctors and scientists, including Dr Fauci, have said all three vaccines are extraordinarily effective at preventing serious illness and death.

 

The varying ‘effectiveness’ rates miss the most important point: The vaccines were all 100 per cent effective in the vaccine trials in stopping hospitalisations and death."

 

[ZonkoVille77]

7 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Trump recommended bleach. 

 

It's just a pity he didn't drink it himself, the fucking jizz faced cunt. 

[Bjornebye]

Aah right ok. Zonks I understand why you would feel aggrieved by them. Personally the millions of lives saved by them prove to me that they were effective. 

 

 

[ZonkoVille77]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Read what he actually said. 

 

Doctors and scientists, including Dr Fauci, have said all three vaccines are extraordinarily effective at preventing serious illness and death.

 

The varying ‘effectiveness’ rates miss the most important point: The vaccines were all 100 per cent effective in the vaccine trials in stopping hospitalisations and death."

 

Fucking hell. 

[Section_31]

Vaccines did work surely otherwise the peaks of previous infection periods would have seen ICU numbers like the first one, and we didn't. 

 

It's perfectly conceivable the vaccines may turn out to have a small number of people who're susceptible to some kind of reaction, most drugs do, my mate was on eczema meds that could apparently make you suicidal. 

 

Anti-depressants are the same, I'm on anti anxiety meds which can make certain people suicidal and I know a few people who've had bad experiences on it, but that's just the case with medication - it fucks with your body and/or brain - by design. 

 

To me, it's always about weighting risk vs reward. Having a jab and being able to go about my day to day life again was a risk worth taking. 

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

Fucking hell. 

Do you think they hid some deaths during the trials? That they fudged the hospitalizations?

 

Billions of doses have been given and there have been 6.5 million deaths. 

 

Do the math.

[ZonkoVille77]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

Aah right ok. Zonks I understand why you would feel aggrieved by them. Personally the millions of lives saved by them prove to me that they were effective. 

 

 

 

I'd really like to know how that can be quantified. I believe it's 3 million adults that are unjabbed in the UK? Shouldn't that be reflected in death totals of unjabbed versus jabbed? 

 

Everyone I know who got sick from Covid whether jabbed or unjabbed suffered equally. There was no noticeable benefit. 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

I'd really like to know how that can be quantified. I believe it's 3 million adults that are unjabbed in the UK? Shouldn't that be reflected in death totals of unjabbed versus jabbed? 

 

Everyone I know who got sick from Covid whether jabbed or unjabbed suffered equally. There was no noticeable benefit. 

Explain the drop in covid deaths once the vaccine started being administered?  

[ZonkoVille77]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Do you think they hid some deaths during the trials? That they fudged the hospitalizations?

 

Billions of doses have been given and there have been 6.5 million deaths. 

 

Do the math.

 

I've no idea about trials and to be honest lost interest in reading about it after Pfizer destroyed their control group. I was talking about the myriad of politicians, scientists and med professionals who all said it was 100% effective at stopping hospitalizations and death, using real world data from Israel. That hasn't turned out to be true no matter what way you spin it. 

[Pureblood]

7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Vaccines did work surely otherwise the peaks of previous infection periods would have seen ICU numbers like the first one, and we didn't. 

It depends where you look. In Israel I can't see any positive impact of the vaccines from this graph. 

 

[ZonkoVille77]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Explain the drop in covid deaths once the vaccine started being administered?  

 

Is that data available from official sources? I would have thought lockdowns stopping the spread would have been responsible for the decline. 

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Explain the drop in covid deaths once the vaccine started being administered?  

There hasn't been a drop, they've just been more spread out.  Equal numbers are dead pre and post vaccination, and most of the deaths have been in old people who are the ones the vaccine was supposed to protect the most.  

 

They have not lived up to the considerable expectations and hype. 

 

Moreover, the vaccines themselves cause harm, thus blurring the distinction between risk and benefit. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

Is that data available from official sources? I would have thought lockdowns stopping the spread would have been responsible for the decline. 

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 12 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

There hasn't been a drop, they've just been more spread out.  Equal numbers are dead pre and post vaccination, and most of the deaths have been in old people who are the ones the vaccine was supposed to protect the most.  

 

They have not lived up to the considerable expectations and hype. 

I don't give a fuck what you think or have to say. I'm speaking with a grown up not you. 

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

I've no idea about trials and to be honest lost interest in reading about it after Pfizer destroyed their control group. I was talking about the myriad of politicians, scientists and med professionals who all said it was 100% effective at stopping hospitalizations and death, using real world data from Israel. That hasn't turned out to be true no matter what way you spin it. 

Unsure as to which Israeli study you are referencing - there have been quite a few.

 

As for deaths (it is impossible to know worldwide hospitalizations) you are up in arms because:

 

A: You know no vaccine is 100% effective but some folks said it was in the trail stages.

B: It only turned out to be 99.95% effective.

 

That's spin Zonker.

[ZonkoVille77]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 12 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

 

 

Cheers I'll have a proper read of that, just out of interest. It's not like my ugly mug has a bearing on the world outcome. 

 

A quick look at it though does back up what I've been saying. They initially look to be effective but then become useless, unless rapid top-ups are applied. By all accounts not how they initially sold them to the public and that's my bugbear.

 

Again I want to point out that despite my personal experiences with them I'm not against them for certain individuals, I'm sure they've helped the vulnerable. 

 

 

*******

Effectiveness against mortality

High levels of protection (over 90%) are also seen against mortality with all 3 vaccines and against both the Alpha and Delta variants with relatively limited waning (6, 11, 12). Vaccine effectiveness against mortality with the Omicron variant has been estimated for those aged 50 years and older by combining the risk of becoming a symptomatic case with the risk of death among symptomatic cases in vaccinated (all vaccines combined) compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 2). At 25-plus weeks following the second dose, vaccine effectiveness was around 60% while at 2 or more weeks following a booster vaccine effectiveness was 95% against mortality.  Table 2. Hazard ratios and vaccine effectiveness against mortality (all vaccine brands combined). OR = odds ratio, HR = hazards ratio, VE = vaccine effectiveness Dose Interval after dose  OR versus symptomatic disease HR versus mortality VE versus mortality 2 25+ weeks 0.93 (0.9 to 0.96) 0.45 (0.19 to 1.03) 59% (4 to 82) 3 2+ weeks 0.41 (0.39 to 0.42) 0.12 (0.06 to 0.24) 95% (90 to 98)  

*****(

 

Effectiveness against infection.

Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the general population with the Alpha and Delta variants (13, 14, 15, 16). Generally estimates are similar to or slightly lower than vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic disease and there is evidence of significant waning in protection against infection over time. Estimates for vaccine effectiveness against infection with the Omicron variant are not yet available. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

Is that data available from official sources? I would have thought lockdowns stopping the spread would have been responsible for the decline. 

The point of the vaccines is to get us out of lockdown without the appalling death rates we saw in 2020.