Has anybody actually changed their mind?

[Evil_Ways]

I believe Rodgers is good enough to take us forward, think he has us trying to play football the right way, as of now obviously the results are lacking, but so is our squad in terms of quality. He's not had enough time or money to set the latter right either, as far as a top 4 finish goes. Need to give him a minumum of 4 transfer windows before any sort of fair judgement can me made.

[Kevin D]

I think he's a better manager than I did at the start of the season.

[Anny Road]

Staying on this forum has me convinced I am mentally ill or a rare conformist.

I though Rafa needed to go the football was turgid and he had shot his bolt.

I though Hodgson was a shit balls from the start and was relieved to see the back of him.

I thought Kenny fucked up a faced paced attacking set-up by spending millions on shit players and agreed with him being replaced.

Was intrigued and excited by the prospect of a young manager in Rodgers being given a reasonable period and sensible backing to build a successful side.

Nothing has changed.

[The Guest]

I never understand why people assign time limits to managers. The idea that he can only be judged after two years, for instance. You judge managers on results, signings, successes and mistakes. The more success - relative to their resources - they have, the more time they get, the more they fuck up the closer they get to the door, that's the way it's always been, and the way it should be.

 

There are circumstances where people do deserve a minimum period of time. Houllier for example, coming into a club with a deeply dysfunctional dressing room, deserved time to weed out the likes of Ince and try and change the culture and attitude of the squad, but he also bought himself time with a good first summer's transfer business.

 

Dalgish did the opposite, he suffered at the hands of the worst summer's transfer activity in English football history, bar none. Giving him another 18 months was not going to unring that bell.

 

If anything, Rodgers should be on a tighter leash than an established manager for the simple fact that we're all operating on blind faith due to the fact he has absolutely no pedigree at all.

 

I've used the analogy before, but if ASDA were appointing a new CEO and the guy from Tesco had taken three years to turn that company around, you'd be happy to give him that three years at ASDA. If you'd taken on a middle manager and given him the top post, but he had no history of turning around a top firm, he'd be under intense scrutiny to see how he coped, and rightly so, with the idea being that for every wrong decision the firm would lose money.

 

The other issue with a football club like Liverpool, is that the longer it's in the wilderness, both financially and in terms of being in the public eye in things such as the Champions League, the more damage is done to it and the harder it will be to turn around by the next man.

 

Time is of the essence, that's the cold reality of the situation. Our recent history has been punctuated by 'crucial' summers. A decline sets in and must be turned around by a good manager with a good summer's transfer business, Houllier and Rafa managed it, Dalglish failed miserably, last summer was a damp squib. But that's still what we need. We need an exceptional summer's transfer business, but we need a figurehead, a manager with a good worldwide reputation and a pedigree who can oversee that important footballing root canal treatement before you start trying to groom the next big thing. In fairness that's what FSG themselves knew and is probably why they tried to appoint an experinced DOF but backed down when Rodgers - rightly - refused to work under one.

 

All we've been left with is a thoroughly unproven manager in charge of a great club which is sinking lower and lower.

 

For me, something about us under Rodgers has never quite felt rght, I can't explain it. Under Rafa, Houllier, and even Dalglish in the first few months (particularly beating chelsea in Torres' first game for them), we had epic performances in games you expected to lose. They felt like managers who could pull something out of the hat, inspire, or pull off some tactical masterstroke. Hodgson just felt mediocre, Rodgers feels mediocre.

 

Just a few points on this. You seem to contradict yourself a little bit with your first two paragraphs but I think I get what you are saying. I definitely agree with that first bit about time judging people. In quite a few circumstances it is definitely possible to judge a manager very quickly. Eg if a manager spent a lot of money on experienced players and massively failed a season in whereas in other circumstances a manager may spend on young players and need time to phase older players out.

 

For all we know Rodgers is on a tighter leash. Your analogy falls down a bit because who is keeping the younger inexperienced promoted CEO in line? Somebody more experienced? Why aren't they the CEO? What do people mean when they say tighter leash? John Henry telling Rodgers his substitutions or starting line up were wrong or that he's not allowed to sign someone? At the end of the day managers in this country are only successful in the long term if they can sign players they want and they can pick and choose how they want to play them. If the results are good then it's an easy decision. If they aren't then it's down to the owners to make a judgement call on whether that's the managers fault or if it's luck and other factors working against him.

 

The last bit I can understand as well. It's obviously opinion and somehow it's just deep down in your gut you have a feeling it's not right and nobody will be able to change that. The thing about the epic performances in games we were expecting to lose though is something that irks me. In all the time under those managers we did have some great results. They almost always felt like performances we actually shouldn't have won. We did a West Brom. We sat back and accepted that we had an inferior side. We defended resolutely and took our luck when it fell to us.

 

Unfortunately our luck ran out in the end. Under Rodgers we haven't had the results but we have had the performances. For the first time in over a decade we have stood up and said we are good enough to be on the pitch with these teams and are trying to outplay them. On more occasions than not we are doing it but the luck is still not there. I know it's easier said than done but if we hadn't made the individual errors this season that we have and had the referees on our side we would be in the top 4 and we would be saying how brilliant he is. These are things out of his control and things he shouldn't be judged on.

[Guest LFD]

I didn't want Rodgers, (I wouldn't have sacked Dalglish either for that matter).

 

I thought we needed a manager who at least had a history of winning trophies and had the CV for this job.

 

But he came and once he did I said I would give him time. Prior to that we have had three managers sacked in three years. I think more than anything this club needs some stability and this constant chopping and changing is not doing us any good.

 

What I like about Rodgers:

 

- He speaks well, passionately and he seems to get us.

 

- His willingness to give youth a chance.

 

- He has a vision on how he wants us to play, yet he will tinker his approach when needed.

 

- I like our brand of football and I think attacking-wise we are looking very good under him, especially with Sturridge in the side.

 

Fears:

 

- Defensively. We look vulnerable in a few different ways. I think some of his approach is a little naive, such as both full backs bombing forward at the same time. Also we are looking weak at set plays against the more physical teams.

 

- His buys in the transfer market have been hit and miss so far for me. Allen / Borini were poor buys for our needs in the summer. That is not to say they are poor players, as I think both are decent (although we need better than decent), but they are players with potential I think we needed players who could improve us instantly and neither have done that. Sturridge looks like he can and hopefully Coutinho can as well, but he needs to spend the money he had had better IMO.

 

Let's stop comparing him to Benitez, Houiller, Dalglish and Hodgson. They have all gone, they are not coming back and we need to look forward. I'd like us to go back to being the most loyal fanbase where we back our manager and give him time to get it right. For me the best chance of success, especially without vast resources, is by having stability.

 

Let's get off Rodgers back and continue to support him and FSG for that matter. They have a plan, let's give them time to get it right.

 

This season for me has been a transitional one. Next season if we are still having the same struggles, then I think it is the time to raise doubts. But for me, now is the time to back our manager, something we failed to do under Dalglish.

[xerxes]

I never understand why people assign time limits to managers etc.

 

 

 

An excellent post in full which sums up how I see things too.

 

We should remember that Rodgers was exactly the man who FSG wanted. The only available manager with less PL experience than Ayre, so easy to control, and unable to make demands because of it, we have a man who cannot believe his luck at having the job at all.

 

The odds always were stacked against Rodgers. But changing him, and not changing the selection process, means that any replacement is unlikely to be an upgrade.

 

But time is against FSG. FFP at home and abroad exposes their short sighted decision not to take the new stadium option, and our ongoing non CL status continues to erode our future earnings potential.

 

Sometimes clubs get trapped in a cycle. I agree with those who say that Rodgers is probably as good as it gets in the circumstances.

[Kevin D]

How do you back and support someone on a football forum, anyway?

[Whelan]

 

But time is against FSG. FFP at home and abroad exposes their short sighted decision not to take the new stadium option, and our ongoing non CL status continues to erode our future earnings potential.

 

That was a poor post in full.

 

But in particularly this bit! But, once again, i'll allow you the opportunity to explain and detail how the £400m will be paid for, as opposed to the £150m projected for the upgrade.

 

As for the OP - I was pleased, as I would have been with Martinez, Kenny staying, LVG, or Laudrup - I had no particular preference for any of the choices, either taken up or not. But I have grown to like and respect him a lot more, and enjoyed the football and attempt to play.

[Whelan]

How do you back and support someone on a football forum, anyway?

 

By repeating your point over and over again - and then calling somone a cunt!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The only available manager with less PL experience than Ayre, so easy to control, and unable to make demands because of it, we have a man who cannot believe his luck at having the job at all.

 

Rodgers wasn't available though was he, if he was, we wouldn't have had to pay a compensation fee would we? You lose all credibility in yet another post were fail to not mention Ian Ayre. Also Nigel Adkins has less experience than Rodgers, as did Brian McDermott.

 

The odds always were stacked against Rodgers. But changing him, and not changing the selection process, means that any replacement is unlikely to be an upgrade.

 

They have a vision, that you clearly don't agree with because you can't stop banging on about it. if they were to change the selection process that would mean changing everything that they have planned in for the growth of the club. So therefore would set us back again.

 

But time is against FSG. FFP at home and abroad exposes their short sighted decision not to take the new stadium option, and our ongoing non CL status continues to erode our future earnings potential.

 

Not going for the new stadium is not short sightedness at all. What is short sighted is thinking spunking £400 Million on a stadium when it could only cost £150 Million to redevelop Anfield.

 

A lot of us wanted to stay at Anfield, because that is home. Not a soulless bowl like the Emirates in the middle of Stanley Park.

[zigackly]

How do you back and support someone on a football forum, anyway?

 

The answer is that's obviously complete bollocks; backing and support is to be given at the game, but you would hope everyone could have the honesty and courage to offer their true opinion in discussion between ourselves.

[stringvest]

Staying on this forum has me convinced I am mentally ill or a rare conformist.

I though Rafa needed to go the football was turgid and he had shot his bolt.

I though Hodgson was a shit balls from the start and was relieved to see the back of him.

I thought Kenny fucked up a faced paced attacking set-up by spending millions on shit players and agreed with him being replaced.

Was intrigued and excited by the prospect of a young manager in Rodgers being given a reasonable period and sensible backing to build a successful side.

Nothing has changed.

 

distilled common sense

[TheHitman]

Maybe FSG realise they made a mistake appointing such an inexperienced manager some reports in France Le Parisien say us and City asked about Ancelotti's availability in Dec 2012. Might be bullshit but who knows with FSG they like to sack people and as Ayre said in the summer finishing far off fourth is not the plan, could well be his agent trying to spark interest as he will leave their in the summer.

[beejay]

I was underwhelmed with the choice of Rodgers but thought it might work having a young, ambitious, hungry-to-learn manager alongside a seasoned old hand like Van Gaal.

 

When it became clear that Rodgers was in sole control, I had major doubts but liked what he had to say on arrival, and he seemed to have a clear ethos with a hard edge that was needed to sort out our perennial under-achievers.

 

After 8 months, 40 odd games and some promising performances coupled with a few miserable results along the way, I'm far from convinced and my instinct is that he doesn't have it in him to get us back in contention. The litmus test is transfers plus the ability to get the best out of players. Success in these departments should mean that results improve and we progress in the right direction. But BR's record is very hit & miss in all these areas.

 

In normal circumstances I would be happy to give him another year at least to put his stamp on the club and prove he can take us forward.

 

But it's 4 seasons since we put up a challenge for the League and I can't help feeling impatient for success. Personally, I would sign a pact with the devil to return us to the top table and that has worked with those bastards down the road for the last 27 years.

 

Therefore, if Mourinho is forced out of Madrid this summer and he wants to come back to the Premiership then if I was John Henry I would be offering him the job and you know what, I think he might just take it.

[Whelan]

Maybe FSG realise they made a mistake appointing such an inexperienced manager some reports in France Le Parisien say us and City asked about Ancelotti's availability in Dec 2012. Might be bullshit but who knows with FSG they like to sack people and as Ayre said in the summer finishing far off fourth is not the plan, could well be his agent trying to spark interest as he will leave their in the summer.

 

They just gave him £20m to spend!

 

Not through a DoF - through him, his choices - that suggests the story is a non - starter.

[Tony Moanero]

Therefore, if Mourinho is forced out of Madrid this summer and he wants to come back to the Premiership then if I was John Henry I would be offering him the job and you know what, I think he might just take it.

 

Ha Ha

 

Give your head a wobble, soft-arse.

[beejay]

Ha Ha

 

Give your head a wobble, soft-arse.

 

On what basis - do you think he's too good for us? If so, fuck off that's bollocks

[TheHitman]

They just gave him £20m to spend!

 

Not through a DoF - through him, his choices - that suggests the story is a non - starter.

 

It would be a strange one but I'm not subscribing to the view that a lot of people are that as he is their man he will get time. Past performance of owners is normally reflective of how they act in the future and if we finish 8th then I don't think it is a foregone conclusion he will be here next season. I thought the whole reason they had scouts and a group decision on transfers was so when a manager leaves there is more continuity and you don't have a manager coming in saying I want to get rid of seven or eight players.

[ZonkoVille77]

Staying on this forum has me convinced I am mentally ill or a rare conformist.

I though Rafa needed to go the football was turgid and he had shot his bolt.

I though Hodgson was a shit balls from the start and was relieved to see the back of him.

I thought Kenny fucked up a faced paced attacking set-up by spending millions on shit players and agreed with him being replaced.

Was intrigued and excited by the prospect of a young manager in Rodgers being given a reasonable period and sensible backing to build a successful side.

Nothing has changed.

 

Agree with nearly all of this except perhaps for the bit in bold. I think every manager needs at least 3 seasons.

 

I said on another thread that I'd written off this year and next at the start of this season but by 14/15 we should be serious challengers. I basing that on the players we've bought having settled in, and most importantly, the manager getting his ideas across with those exact players. I'd prefer we built now and have a good team for years rather than buying quick fixes and managers changing every year.

[xerxes]

Therefore, if Mourinho is forced out of Madrid this summer and he wants to come back to the Premiership then if I was John Henry I would be offering him the job and you know what, I think he might just take it.

 

But John Henry knows nothing about football so he won't.

 

Mourinho would not come because FSG know nothing about football and are not prepared to finance a CL/League tilt.

[Major Tom]

Mourinho would not come because FSG know nothing about football and are not prepared to finance a CL/League tilt.

 

How do you know?

[A Red]

But John Henry knows nothing about football so he won't.

 

Mourinho would not come because FSG know nothing about football and are not prepared to finance a CL/League tilt.

 

Mourinho wont come because we dont have the money.

[Code]

They just gave him £20m to spend!

 

Not through a DoF - through him, his choices - that suggests the story is a non - starter.

 

?r maybe someone else suggested the players as Rodgers did not want Sturridge in the summer even if he could have got him?

 

Excellent post by Section by the way.

[Tony Moanero]

On what basis - do you think he's too good for us? If so, fuck off that's bollocks

 

You are mental, blowie lad. Why would Mourinho come here? He will go to a club that are already in a position to challenge for the top prizes, a club that will spend mega money on transfer fees and wages.

[Section_31]

?r maybe someone else suggested the players as Rodgers did not want Sturridge in the summer even if he could have got him?

 

Excellent post by Section by the way.

 

Oh fuck.