Torres on this season

[TheBajan]

I love what Fernando has done here.

 

He is hardly going to come about and name names: "Gillett and Hicks are cancers to LFC" etc. However, he has had a dig and everyone knows it.

 

I also respect the support he has shown the manager. Rafa hasn't had a good year. No doubt about that. But he's one year into a five year contract and we don't have the funds to dismiss him and start over. I wish Carra and Gerrard would follow suit.

[aws]

Rafa now has (more or less) full operational control of who comes and goes (just like most other managers) but he has no control over the size of the budget which is determined by the owners (or the Banks). Operational control over a negative budget for three windows amounts to contol over fuck all in terms of trying to improve a team.

 

Rafa expected funds to buy Silva and Turner (or Shawcross) to add to Johnson and Aquilani but the plug was pulled and we ended up with £1.5m for Kyrgiakos and Purslow telling us that the transfer "warchest" had been used up improving the wages of existing players. Judging by Torres' comments and the half-arsed efforts by many players at the start of the season the squad clearly believed new signings were on the way, felt let down and didn't have the mental strength to knuckle down and put it behind them.

 

Rafa fought during his contract negotiations to be free from the "Parry factor" - the chief executive making the final decision on player selection. This was interpreted by the media and twisted by some with an axe to grind as Rafa now having "total control" which is and always has been complete bollocks.

[coop]

Rafa now has (more or less) full operational control of who comes and goes (just like most other managers) but he has no control over the size of the budget which is determined by the owners (or the Banks). Operational control over a negative budget for three windows amounts to contol over fuck all in terms of trying to improve a team.

 

Rafa expected funds to buy Silva and Turner (or Shawcross) to add to Johnson and Aquilani but the plug was pulled and we ended up with £1.5m for Kyrgiakos and Purslow telling us that the transfer "warchest" had been used up improving the wages of existing players. Judging by Torres' comments and the half-arsed efforts by many players at the start of the season the squad clearly believed new signings were on the way, felt let down and didn't have the mental strength to knuckle down and put it behind them.

 

Rafa fought during his contract negotiations to be free from the "Parry factor" - the chief executive making the final decision on player selection. This was interpreted by the media and twisted by some with an axe to grind as Rafa now having "total control" which is and always has been complete bollocks.

 

As per normal i think that is spot on.

 

You only have rewind back to the end of last season when Carra, Torres, Gerrard and Rafa were all making noises about signing some quality.

 

I can remember Rafa saying that we could break our transfer record.

 

We were making enquires for Silva as well as Aquilani, Johnson etc then the money was pulled.

 

Its pretty obvious at the moment the bank is running the club with Purslow here to find that £100m investment so unless something changes i would get used to zero spending.

[Fowlers God]

I wouldnt be suprised if Rafa fines him after this outbursts, Drops him to the reserves and tries to sell him to Russia before the seasons out............No honestly I wouldnt be suprised.

[Hand Shandy]

Rafa now has (more or less) full operational control of who comes and goes (just like most other managers) but he has no control over the size of the budget which is determined by the owners (or the Banks). Operational control over a negative budget for three windows amounts to contol over fuck all in terms of trying to improve a team.

 

Rafa expected funds to buy Silva and Turner (or Shawcross) to add to Johnson and Aquilani but the plug was pulled and we ended up with £1.5m for Kyrgiakos and Purslow telling us that the transfer "warchest" had been used up improving the wages of existing players. Judging by Torres' comments and the half-arsed efforts by many players at the start of the season the squad clearly believed new signings were on the way, felt let down and didn't have the mental strength to knuckle down and put it behind them.

 

Rafa fought during his contract negotiations to be free from the "Parry factor" - the chief executive making the final decision on player selection. This was interpreted by the media and twisted by some with an axe to grind as Rafa now having "total control" which is and always has been complete bollocks.

 

No, no, no.

 

Come on aws, you know better than this - it's all Rafa's fault.

[JohnnyH]

Rafa now has (more or less) full operational control of who comes and goes (just like most other managers) but he has no control over the size of the budget which is determined by the owners (or the Banks). Operational control over a negative budget for three windows amounts to contol over fuck all in terms of trying to improve a team.

 

Rafa expected funds to buy Silva and Turner (or Shawcross) to add to Johnson and Aquilani but the plug was pulled and we ended up with £1.5m for Kyrgiakos and Purslow telling us that the transfer "warchest" had been used up improving the wages of existing players. Judging by Torres' comments and the half-arsed efforts by many players at the start of the season the squad clearly believed new signings were on the way, felt let down and didn't have the mental strength to knuckle down and put it behind them.

 

Rafa fought during his contract negotiations to be free from the "Parry factor" - the chief executive making the final decision on player selection. This was interpreted by the media and twisted by some with an axe to grind as Rafa now having "total control" which is and always has been complete bollocks.

 

That's what I was trying to say, but you said it better this time. This time.....

[coop]

It's bad enough when Purslow comes out and claims that £20m net has been spent over the summer when it was nothing of the sort. It puts the manager and players under extra pressure regardless of what the circumstances were.

 

Cutting the budget mid-window, substantially, is unforgivable. But to leave someone else to stew in the mess you made is a cunt's trick.

 

I have tried before working out where exactly that figure has come from and all i can think of is the contract renewals and the appointment of the coaching staff.

[Whelan]

I have tried before working out where exactly that figure has come from and all i can think of is the contract renewals and the appointment of the coaching staff.

 

He did mean that! Can't recall the actual quote but I am pretty sure Purslow used that same argument!

[Tom R]

If you repeat something often enough......

 

...then it's still the truth?

[WhiskeyJar]

We have no money, Rafa has made some good buys and some bad ones.

 

The fact that we didnt sign anyone in addition to Jonhson, Aquilani and Maxi means that we are broke and cant compete with the Mancs and Chelski.

 

Bottom line is Rafa is talking on ice at the moment but its all of his damn fault, I am sure if he had the money we would be talking about Barcelona Vs Liverpool.

 

Sadly the fans blame Rafa for everything bad at the moment, which is not the case.

 

Look to the owners and to that fucking piece of shit Moore who fucking put us here in the first place.

[cochcaer]

Can't argue with what Torres says; he normally hits the nail on the head. Off the field things have been managed poorly, both on the footballing and boardroom front.

[Torvald Utne]

Rafa, give me a list of players you want....

 

Errrm, messi, xavi, sneijder, etc etc etc, shawcross, the greek

 

Ok, no, no, no etc etc etc etc no, 1.5m you say? Ok

[WhiskeyJar]

Rafa, give me a list of players you want....

 

Errrm, messi, xavi, sneijder, etc etc etc, shawcross, the greek

 

Ok, no, no, no etc etc etc etc no, 1.5m you say? Ok

 

Sadly I think thats the way it happend.

[PaulMcC]

Rafa now has (more or less) full operational control of who comes and goes (just like most other managers) but he has no control over the size of the budget which is determined by the owners (or the Banks). Operational control over a negative budget for three windows amounts to contol over fuck all in terms of trying to improve a team.

 

Rafa expected funds to buy Silva and Turner (or Shawcross) to add to Johnson and Aquilani but the plug was pulled and we ended up with £1.5m for Kyrgiakos and Purslow telling us that the transfer "warchest" had been used up improving the wages of existing players. Judging by Torres' comments and the half-arsed efforts by many players at the start of the season the squad clearly believed new signings were on the way, felt let down and didn't have the mental strength to knuckle down and put it behind them.

 

Rafa fought during his contract negotiations to be free from the "Parry factor" - the chief executive making the final decision on player selection. This was interpreted by the media and twisted by some with an axe to grind as Rafa now having "total control" which is and always has been complete bollocks.

 

It's obvous that this is what happened given all Rafa's comments about signing other top players then not being able to afford Turner or Shawcross.

[Paco]

Sami would have been on big money wouldn't he? maybe 80k a week?

 

Is it possible we had to get him off the players payroll?

 

Maybe the yanks thought "he's 35, he's 4th choice and he's on a lot of money" so he was offered a coaching role where he would have been on considerably less money.

[coop]

It still doesn't add up to that.

 

Add up the money that came in during 2009 - including the money back for Keane - then knock off the transfer fees we paid out / committed to in 2009. Keane out, Xabi out, Arbeloa out, a few others. Aquilani in, Johnson in, the Greek in etc. It's something like £17m profit.

 

So to make it £20m net spend then we've spent £37m on pay rises and appointing new coaching staff.

 

And if you give a player an extra two years and an extra £20k a week you're not paying him all that up front. You've already budgeted for his existing wages. So you've added £20k a week to your wage bill for that year for that player - about a million quid.

 

In terms of wages for new signings you've also got to knock off the savings in wages for the players you sold.

 

If you want to give out a figure for what was spent overall on players - wages, fees, the lot - then that's fair enough if you make it clear that's what you mean. And if you supply some figures for the years before when it meant no such thing. Purslow didn't supply those figures or make it clear that's what he meant.

 

Yet he expects us to trust him.

 

We already know of a players pot that exists and only that money can be used for transfers and we now know contracts.

 

Im presuming that this also extends to the coaching staff as well.

 

So include the cost of paying off all those members of staff we sacked in the summer plus the appointment of all the new ones.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Rafa's new contract also came out of there as well.

[stringvest]

That ain't the reason we've had a shit season though. Rafa brought in replacements for Alonso and Arbeloa, Sami and added a (good) free signing in Maxi. Given that United had a much weaker team this year than last, you'd have thought we'd have done better. Or is it all H&G's fault?

 

You'll have an argument I could sign up to in two or three years if our best players have left and we've brought no-one in to replace them. Not at the moment though.

[aws]

We already know of a players pot that exists and only that money can be used for transfers and we now know contracts.

 

Im presuming that this also extends to the coaching staff as well.

 

So include the cost of paying off all those members of staff we sacked in the summer plus the appointment of all the new ones.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Rafa's new contract also came out of there as well.

 

The Yanks' expenses probably got accidentally mixed up in there somehow.

[stringvest]

The Yanks' expenses probably got accidentally mixed up in there somehow.

 

While it's annoying, it's trivial stuff in the scheme of things.

[bigal]

Arbeloa - what Torres is quoted as saying is that it was his versatilty that was so good. Maybe he could have filled in the left back position even if we'd got Johnson?

Sami - interesting to see that it is his off the field influence that was so strong. Is he thinking of coaching at some point? He strikes me as someone who would become a good manager somewhere.

[Whelan]

That ain't the reason we've had a shit season though. Rafa brought in replacements for Alonso and Arbeloa, Sami and added a (good) free signing in Maxi. Given that United had a much weaker team this year than last, you'd have thought we'd have done better. Or is it all H&G's fault?

 

You'll have an argument I could sign up to in two or three years if our best players have left and we've brought no-one in to replace them. Not at the moment though.

 

There is an argument now though!

 

It just isn't the only reason. What could go wrong has gone wrong, and when we needed to be 100% we haven't, and that goes for everyone.

 

Despite the shite in the team, we still should have beaten Lyon away quite easily! Too many times this season we have had more than enough to win and yet we haven't.

[Whelan]

While it's annoying, it's trivial stuff in the scheme of things.

 

Sorry to quote you again!

 

3 million pounds in expenses isn't trivial when you give the manager 1.5 to sign a Centre Half.

[aws]

That ain't the reason we've had a shit season though. Rafa brought in replacements for Alonso and Arbeloa, Sami and added a (good) free signing in Maxi. Given that United had a much weaker team this year than last, you'd have thought we'd have done better. Or is it all H&G's fault?

 

You'll have an argument I could sign up to in two or three years if our best players have left and we've brought no-one in to replace them. Not at the moment though.

 

I think there's all sorts of reasons why we've had a shit season and nobody should get a free pass on it. My biggest concern all season has been the lack of grit and effort on the pitch - we seem to only turn up for the big games or when we fancy it. Most will just say it's Rafa's job to motivate them which is correct but here we have Torres admitting that the squad was deflated by the summer and couldn't pick themselves up.

[Whelan]

I think there's all sorts of reasons why we've had a shit season and nobody should get a free pass on it. My biggest concern all season has been the lack of grit and effort on the pitch - we seem to only turn up for the big games or when we fancy it. Most will just say it's Rafa's job to motivate them which is correct but here we have Torres admitting that the squad was deflated by the summer and couldn't pick themselves up.

 

Taking into account by bias where he is concerned.

 

Did you see Benny's comments on Monday? Talk about throwing in the towell, if that is the prevailing attitude in the camp, then it is no wonder. Not too deflated to still continue picking up their wages mind you...

[Kennys_spell]

{/QUOTE]

 

 

I do find it amusing that even in the face of obvious facts being pointed out there are those that simply will not accept anything that counters a position they have previously taken.

 

I personally believe we bought the wrong players and spent far too much on two of them fungus.

 

The wrong players? Given that Torres is now saying that the loss of Alonso and Arbeloa is key to our current playing malaise - why on earth do you think that buying other players for different positions would help that? You should also take into account that the two purchased players were only PART of the equation agreed to implement a plan, a plan that was scuppered when the money was required elsewhere.

 

I think everyone knew we would need a first choice left back going into the season, and even with his cameos the season before it was a huge ask for Insua to play the majority of our games

.

 

It was never the plan to have Insua play "the majority of our games" - Aurellio being made of glass didn't help this and needs must.

 

Similarly we absolutely HAD to get cover in for Torres after the previous season where his loss was a big part in the shit patch we had from January to March.

 

Perhaps one of the players that was lost when the goalposts shifted?

 

Perhaps if Rafa had cut his cloth to fit and spent less on those two players we would have had that cover and still got more out of our midfield. A cheaper right-back wouldn't have been an upgrade on Arbeloa necessarily, but would have done a job one hopes.

 

You don't think that Benitez made his plans based on what he was told was available and these plans were then changed?

 

 

We might never know at what point in the window he knew what he had to spend. I think that his not coming out and saying something or leaking something to the press about it speaks volumes though, in comparison to previous seasons.

 

OR it simply points to the fact that there is nothing else to say about it that would change the situation?